The Next President of the United States: III

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1684

Versus Hillary Clinton I will take that gamble. As I said politicians constantly talk about what they will do. They don’t always do this to alert us to their intentions. They do this because they know what the populace wants to hear.

Do you really think Ted Cruz can get rid of the IRS?

Did you think that Ronald Reagan would attack the old Soviet Union with nuclear bombs?

Did you believe George HW Bush when he said “read my lips no new taxes”.

Would you have believed LBJ when he said he would have us out of Vietnam during his term in office?

This is what politicians do. Trump’s comments are edgy and he does this because he does want to tap into the frustration of the many voters. Some actually believed that Obama would be a great President…ha ha ha that is funny…anyway.

My bet, no one family members of terrorists are getting tortured if Trump is elected. However, should Hillary become the President we KNOW she will appoint judges who will

  1. Never over throw Roe Vs Wade.

  2. Attack our 1st. amendment rights

  3. Attack our 2nd amendment rights

I’ll stop there all I can do is tell you for the umpteenth time that Hillary will be worse…far worse than Trump. And no I wish I did not have to make such a choice. But, life is tough and sometimes you have to make difficult decisions. Passing them off to others to make for you is never the answer my friend.

1685

Someone must.

Not at least attempting to stop the evil Empress before she takes command is in my view immoral.

Edited

1686

My God, I am frightened for my country. “You’re immoral for not voting for our evil against their evil.” Embrace your morally bankrupt con-man, or brutal straight-shooter, whichever he MUST be. My hands are clean.

1 Like
1687

Post responded to aside, you are well past due to call me anti-intellectual.

What’s up with that? Rough week or something? :grinning:

1688

http://conservativetribune.com/republicans-fund-amnesty/

http://www.senateconservatives.com/site/post/2021/20-republicans-vote-to-fund-obamacare

Of all the stuff Obama wants, the only thing I can think that he hasn’t gotten is gun control. Even when legislation isn’t passed Obama just circumvents Congress and then they fund it anyway.

1689

Thanks I’ll have to look through it, but at first glance it appears these are all related to the massive budget bills we always here Congress stalling till the 11th hour to approve? There’s always consistent opposition from the GOP but ultimately they have to approve it due to what is packed with it.

In the case of Obama care how many times has Congress acted to repeal it? Hell didn’t Cruz philibuster it for some 21 hours? Rubio sunk the final nail in the coffin when he led the rejection of federal subsidies for insurers that is causing it to collapse on itself.

Again I’ll have to read through the articles but it seems we’ve had 2 senators to choose from who have done exactly what trump supporters are saying they haven’t.

1690

Well, one at least. Gang of eight killed Rubio’s chances of claiming he doesn’t betray the electorate.

1691

That’s okay we can disagree…relax breath :smile:

1692

So, who here believes that the American people do not want to eviscerate Muslim terrorists? And by eviscerate, I mean full on Vlad Dracula leave their bodies rotting on pikes for their brethren to see and fear the same fate?

Who would rather just negotiate with them and hope for the best? (Bis, sloth, etc.)?

1693

[quote=“zeb1, post:1677, topic:212571, full:true”]

I condemn any President who would authorize the killing of terrorist family members. However, Trump is not the President. He is a candidate tossing political red meat to the masses. Do I think that is fitting? Of course not. But, that is how the game is played and it’s been going on for a very long time. [/quote]

I find this asinine.

The man IS running for the Presidency. He is on the campaign trail telling us his views on various matters. What he says should be taken seriously for the most part, or at the very as a serious indication of his opinions and world-views.

There’s a couple of things seriously wrong here-

Suppose that he really is just pandering to the masses with his talk of killing the families of terrorists and such, but he doesn’t actually believe in it.

The very fact that he feels the need to say such things to rile up his base, and the fact that his base gets riled up by it to begin with, should be horrifying to any decent human being.

Another serious issue with this is that Trump would be flat-out lying then, and this really just keeps on with the blatant fact that the guy is a RINO.

This is what really confuses me. I figure the average Trump supporter actually doesn’t give two shits about whether he’s a RINO or not. In fact, I’m willing to argue that they like him BECAUSE he’s a RINO.

But, afaik, many of the people here on this board are very much anti-RINO and are generally strict with their Republican ideology- I find it really confusing to see such people not just blast Trump into oblivion because he has spoken positively of Planned Parenthood, gun control, and a single-payer health care system.

Even beyond the fact that Trump is a RINO is the fact that, if he is lying about this, then you can’t trust him at his word. If you can’t trust him at his word, then why are you even willing to follow him?

Now, suppose that he DOES believe in it… That’s scary. A guy who’s willing to kill the families of his enemies is scary. That guy sounds like a tyrant in the making. And I don’t quite understand how you choose to differentiate simply on the basis of whether the guy has become President or is actively running for the Presidency. If he believes in it now, then he’ll believe in it if he becomes the President.

Are you suggesting that his words have no meaning until he actually becomes President? But by that token why hate on anyone and what they say on the campaign trail until they actually become the President?

2 Likes
1694

Why are you seeing this only in the extreme spectrum?

I have no problem with the U.S. government doing everything in its power to destroy its enemies.

But this doesn’t mean that the government needs to torture them needlessly, mutilate their bodies and put them on public displays, or kill the relatives of terrorists.

And I believe that the average American does not want to eviscerate Muslim terrorists. Seeing as how Trump really is still only winning somewhere between 30-50% of any given primary, it seems like a bad idea to believe that his supporters are representative of the entire nation as a whole.

1695

True, Rubio is certainly not your guy if you oppose a path to citizenship in any way shape or form. I suspect this is most likely due to it not being a major issue among his direct constituency(at least at the time of the bill). I will say that I think his plan to secure the border and stop further illegal immigration is the most comprehensive.

Not to defend the gang of 8 bill but it did contain primary provisions to secure the border in exchange for a path to citizenship, this was of course drafted in a democratic senate and supported by Obama, it seemed the intent was to strengthen it in the house(republican controlled) after the Senate passed it. With Obama having previously endorsed it the house would have had plenty of flexibility to adjust as desired and still get Obama’s signature. Again not to defend the bill but it seems this was a fairly well drafted attempt to get the most out of a democratic senate and executive branch.

The point is that Trump supporters seem to accuse the opponents as either push overs or do nothing politicians when in fact we had the opposite of each with Cruz being ideologically consistent and Rubio being able to work a deal to move towards the desired end result.

1696

I don’t disagree with you. I think the Trump supporters however get overwhelmed with the fact that no one is stopping Obama. They wanted someone to stop this and it hasn’t stopped and now they are going to show us all how pissed they are. To them it doesn’t matter what Cruz has done because Obama hasn’t been stopped. Never mind the fact that he has done as much as one senator can possibly do, Obama hasn’t been stopped. I think people have just reached their tipping point and are willing to get behind someone who will win at all costs. I recently heard someone say “Democrats don’t play by the rules, so why do we?”

2 Likes
1697

Seems plausible, couple that with the simplicity of his sales pitch it makes sense that it would appeal to low information voters. I still don’t see what congress could reallistI call being doing differently, it still seems that the vast majority of Obama’s efforts post republican control of Congress has circumvented it all together. Especially in regards to immigration, I’ve heard there has been a catch and release policy pushed down through ICE from the top. If this is true I doubt it will be the last we hear of it.

1698

Just going with what has worked in the past.

The thing is, there isn’t a fixed number of people who we had been bombing the shit out of until recently. There are the ones that we killed, the ones that are fighting now, and the ones that are next. We get all caught up in hyperbole, who doesn’t admonish what, and who condones what. The middle east has entire populations actively funding, clothing, sheltering, and providing safe haven to real actors that want to kill our soldiers and actually destroy our way of life while we mince words and try to spin political straw into gold. So while we play Rumpelstiltskin with Trumps words and really think that we’re figuring it out, a whole region of the world with a long term siege mentality is just reconnoitering to kick our fucking asses.

Admittedly, I do see things a bit differently. Maybe not entirely accurately either.

1699
1700

You would need to give actual examples where methods of inspiring terror (that didn’t ultimately turn into whole-sale slaughter of everyone who opposes you) actually succeeded in subduing entire populaces for any length of time.

I really cannot think of any off the top of my head.

In any case- The kind of situation you describe happens whenever you have a battle between ideologies, and one that enters into the very homes of people.

The American Revolution is an example of this- The colonial populace actively supported the Continental army. The British army was, effectively speaking, at war with the population at large.

What do you do when you’re fighting the very population? This seems to be a question that no country has ever answered in a satisfactory manner.

1701

I think that your last question is where the compromise between what is considered acceptable and what will be accepted occurs.

1702

You should have quoted my entire post. Within that post is a full explanation. Cherry picking as you did would cause me to go back and repeat the post where you cherry picked a couple of lines.

Since I don’t feel like repeating myself for the probably 7th time (not with you my friend but with others) simply go back and reread my entire post and then comment on its entirety. I am only commenting now because I respect you and did not want to ignore your comments.

ZEB

1703

You just nailed it!

(more characters they cried out for more characters)