Staying home does not support Hillary, that is ridiculous. [/quote]
One less vote for the republican puts Hillary Clinton, or whomever the democrats nominate that much closer to a win.
If everyone who would have voted republican stayed home Clinton would win for sure. Think about it.
You can rationalize not participating anyway you want I suppose, but don’t lie to yourself. The democrats would like you to stay home if you are not voting for their candidate.
[/quote]
Ya, I don’t care. I can’t vote for someone I don’t believe in at all. Like not even 1%. If Hillary wins because Trump lost you have my permission to blame me.
Staying home does not support Hillary, that is ridiculous. [/quote]
One less vote for the republican puts Hillary Clinton, or whomever the democrats nominate that much closer to a win.
If everyone who would have voted republican stayed home Clinton would win for sure. Think about it.
You can rationalize not participating anyway you want I suppose, but don’t lie to yourself. The democrats would like you to stay home if you are not voting for their candidate.
[/quote]
Ya, I don’t care. I can’t vote for someone I don’t believe in at all. Like not even 1%. If Hillary wins because Trump lost you have my permission to blame me. [/quote]
Hey, I do understand how you feel don’t get me wrong. I held my nose and voted for John McCain, not liking very much about the guy. But when I look back at the colossal failure of Barack Obama I know I did the right thing. There is always a reason to vote FOR someone. In the case of Trump you and I agree that he is not a true conservative. In fact, some of his ideas scare me. But, he’s certainly more conservative than Hillary Clinton (whose every thought scares me), or anyone the democrats will nominate.
All I am saying is to always vote in your best interests that’s not too hard to do is it? Even if the candidate falls dramatically short of your ideal.
Staying home does not support Hillary, that is ridiculous. [/quote]
One less vote for the republican puts Hillary Clinton, or whomever the democrats nominate that much closer to a win.
If everyone who would have voted republican stayed home Clinton would win for sure. Think about it.
You can rationalize not participating anyway you want I suppose, but don’t lie to yourself. The democrats would like you to stay home if you are not voting for their candidate.
[/quote]
Ya, I don’t care. I can’t vote for someone I don’t believe in at all. Like not even 1%. If Hillary wins because Trump lost you have my permission to blame me. [/quote]
Hey, I do understand how you feel don’t get me wrong. I held my nose and voted for John McCain, not liking very much about the guy. But when I look back at the colossal failure of Barack Obama I know I did the right thing. There is always a reason to vote FOR someone. In the case of Trump you and I agree that he is not a true conservative. In fact, some of his ideas scare me. But, he’s certainly more conservative than Hillary Clinton (whose every thought scares me), or anyone the democrats will nominate. [/quote]
I don’t honestly believe he is more conservative than Hillary.
I’d rather vote in the best interest of future generations. I am whole heartily convinced a Trump presidency degrades the GOP brand so much (because he’s a progressive) that people completely flip over to a guy like Sanders or worse. I don’t want my children living under 50%+ taxes and socialism because Trump was the lesser of two evil in 2016.
I’d rather vote in the best interest of future generations.[/quote]
By allowing Hillary to win and appoint left wing judges? Tell me how does that help future generations? At least Trump would be beholding to the GOP. Therefore, even if he wasn’t as conservative as you and I would like he would at least be listening to some people who are true conservatives.
That’s not the point. The point is we don’t want Hillary as President.
Says Glenn Beck…(yawn)
[quote]I don’t want my children living under 50%+ taxes and socialism because Trump was the lesser of two evil in 2016.
I whole heartily believe that. [/quote]
You lost me on this last point my friend. Tell me again how your children will be paying 50% in taxes because you voted for Trump?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Three problems with your statement: First of all 47% of the people currently pay no tax so life does not change for them…they don’t care what “The Donald” is doing. Secondly, the democrats live to pander to those 47%, if Trump gets in a little pandering himself I’m good with that.
[/quote]
I paid no federal income taxes last year. I actually got about $100 from the government.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Three problems with your statement: First of all 47% of the people currently pay no tax so life does not change for them…they don’t care what “The Donald” is doing. Secondly, the democrats live to pander to those 47%, if Trump gets in a little pandering himself I’m good with that.
[/quote]
I paid no federal income taxes last year. I actually got about $100 from the government.[/quote]
So, you don’t work a job? or you work a job with little income? What? because I pay enough federal taxes to raise a welfare family of 8 with full benefits.
I’d rather vote in the best interest of future generations.[/quote]
By allowing Hillary to win and appoint left wing judges? Tell me how does that help future generations? At least Trump would be beholding to the GOP. Therefore, even if he wasn’t as conservative as you and I would like he would at least be listening to some people who are true conservatives. [/quote]
Hillary would be a terrible president. People will hopefully shift to a more conservative candidate after her disastrous term(s). I’m not sure who Trump will listen to.
[quote]
That’s not the point. The point is we don’t want Hillary as President. [/quote]
To use a metaphor, you are focused on the battle, I am focused on the war. Long term Trump hurts the only party that will nominate a conservative. If his actions degrade that brand you may never get a conservative president again.
[quote]
Says Glenn Beck…(yawn) [/quote]
You are starting to sound like some of our liberal friends Zeb. I don’t watch, read, or listen to Glenn Beck. I think for myself.
If a Trump Presidency fails miserably and degrades the GOP brand the people are going to continue to shift left. Eventually this will result in a socialist like Bernie Sanders or worse becoming President.
Hillary would be a terrible president. People will hopefully shift to a more conservative candidate after her disastrous term(s). I’m not sure who Trump will listen to.[/quote]
That is a mistake in thinking and has been done before. After 8 years of the worst (leftist) US President ever we are supposed to be able to field a conservative. At least according to your theory, and we may very well. But thinking that we need another 8 years of Hillary Clinton kicking the country’s ass should tell you that this thinking may not work. Tell me if you don’t get your ideal conservative after 16 years of left wing rein are you going to stay home again? Did those who stayed home because Romney was not conservative enough help the country? Would Romney have not been better than Obama by large amounts? We now have a socialist running for President Bernie Sanders. Not because we had a less conservative President but because we elected the most liberal President in history Barack Obama. So much for your theory.
I hope you can see how unproductive and dangerous this thinking is. You are basically saying over and over again “we will be harmed if we put anything less than a real conservative in the White House”. While at the same time you are threatening to repeatedly stay home helping to elect a liberal because you may not get your perfect conservative! 8 years turns into 16 years with Clinton which could turn into 24 years in a future election cycle where you don’t get your perfect conservative. And we slide closer and closer to socialism. Not because we elected someone not quite conservative enough. But, because too many stayed home and helped elected left wing politicians. It is a fools game you are playing. (not calling you a fool please don’t take offense).
In essence you are saying “I’ll show them let them elect another far left President because in the end they will be sorry and it will be time for a real conservative. And if we don’t elect a real conservative we degrade the republican party.” Yet…because we stay home.decades of really bad economic decisions are made when we stay home decades of really bad left wing Presidents are elected and that buries the US. Not to mention the left wing judges who will be appointed and have a hand in burying the US as we now know it.
What is interesting is that the demographic that votes in highest numbers are senior citizens. As a group they will not stay home they go out and vote for the best possible candidate. I think this is experience talking my friend. I’ve learned from this group. The group that stays home the most because their ideal candidate has not been chosen are the 20 something’s, the newer voters…And not coincidentally the older you get by decade the more likely you are to vote.
I see what you are saying. But, if you think for a minute 8 more years of a leftist regime pretty much secures your worst fears. And you are allowing that to happen by not voting. Honestly, there is very little that could be worse than 8 years of Obama followed by 8 years of Hillary Clinton. Do you honestly think we will have much of a country left after that?
You will be holding out for decades and for what? To watch our once great country slide into oblivion.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Three problems with your statement: First of all 47% of the people currently pay no tax so life does not change for them…they don’t care what “The Donald” is doing. Secondly, the democrats live to pander to those 47%, if Trump gets in a little pandering himself I’m good with that.
[/quote]
I paid no federal income taxes last year. I actually got about $100 from the government.[/quote]
So, you don’t work a job? or you work a job with little income? What? because I pay enough federal taxes to raise a welfare family of 8 with full benefits. [/quote]
4 kids and a wife on one income and it’s not very hard. With a $4000 child tax credit you only need to get your taxable income under ~$33,000. Standard deduction is $12,600, but I’m able to deduct a little more than that. Exemptions will add to $24,000. Health care premiums give me another $4000 deduction. I made up the rest in 401k, IRA, and HSA contributions.
The point is that the notion that 47% of us are all freeloaders being pandered to by democrats is an incredibly arrogant statement.[/quote]
You are spot on with you post
Many on this board do feel that way and want to throw their hands up in the air as if a good conservative cannot be elected because 47% of the people are already locked into the democratic party. And that is absolutely ridiculous.
Hillary would be a terrible president. People will hopefully shift to a more conservative candidate after her disastrous term(s). I’m not sure who Trump will listen to.[/quote]
That is a mistake in thinking and has been done before. After 8 years of the worst (leftist) US President ever we are supposed to be able to field a conservative. At least according to your theory, and we may very well. But thinking that we need another 8 years of Hillary Clinton kicking the country’s ass should tell you that this thinking may not work. Tell me if you don’t get your ideal conservative after 16 years of left wing rein are you going to stay home again? Did those who stayed home because Romney was not conservative enough help the country? Would Romney have not been better than Obama by large amounts? We now have a socialist running for President Bernie Sanders. Not because we had a less conservative President but because we elected the most liberal President in history Barack Obama. So much for your theory. [/quote]
You are misinterpreting what I wrote. All I meant was that if Hillary becomes president her disastrous term should shift people to conservative ideals. We should be able to field a conservative now after Obama’s 8 years, unfortunately, one has not emerged that can challenge the celebrity of Trump, yet.
Again, I’m not looking for the ideal conservative, case and point I voted for the moderate Romney. If I was willing to vote for Romney and not Trump that should tell you something. I’ll say this though, had we elected Romney and he has been a disaster, Bernie Sanders would have a better shot at the Presidency, imo.
[quote]
I hope you can see how unproductive and dangerous this thinking is. You are basically saying over and over again “we will be harmed if we put anything less than a real conservative in the White House”. While at the same time you are threatening to repeatedly stay home helping to elect a liberal because you may not get your perfect conservative! 8 years turns into 16 years with Clinton which could turn into 24 years in a future election cycle where you don’t get your perfect conservative. And we slide closer and closer to socialism. Not because we elected someone not quite conservative enough. But, because too many stayed home and helped elected left wing politicians. It is a fools game you are playing. (not calling you a fool please don’t take offense).[/quote]
Again you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I would like a conservative, but more than anything I want someone principled. Someone that isn’t going to change his or her principles when politically convenient.
Look, I believe in practicing what I preach. There are certain principles I live my life by and I’m not going to just vote for a person like Donald Trump who I believe is no better than Hillary Clinton just because he is running of the Republican ticket. I won’t do it. You might think that is foolish and you’re entitled to that opinion, but I’m not going to be like many Republicans who talk a good game, but when push comes to shove backs down. I won’t do it.
If Trump wins and he turns out to be a good President I’ll admit I was wrong, but he hasn’t proven to me he’s in line with anything I believe in. He is the definition of a RINO.
Now, if he puts out a list of cuts he intends to pursue so that his tax plan is at least revenue neutral then I’ll reconsider. If he comes out with a plan to give healthcare back to the states then I’ll reconsider. Etc etc…
[quote]
In essence you are saying “I’ll show them let them elect another far left President because in the end they will be sorry and it will be time for a real conservative. And if we don’t elect a real conservative we degrade the republican party.” Yet…because we stay home.decades of really bad economic decisions are made when we stay home decades of really bad left wing Presidents are elected and that buries the US. Not to mention the left wing judges who will be appointed and have a hand in burying the US as we now know it.[/quote]
If both parties continue to throw shit at the election the people will continue to be left wanting. Eventually they are going to either turn to a real conservative with real reform ideas to move us forward or they are going to turn to the other side of the spectrum and elect Bernie Sanders Marx.
I never said if we don’t elect a real conservative it will degrade the GOP. I said if we elect Donald Trump he will degrade the GOP making it almost impossible for a conservative to be elected in the future.
[quote]
What is interesting is that the demographic that votes in highest numbers are senior citizens. As a group they will not stay home they go out and vote for the best possible candidate. I think this is experience talking my friend. I’ve learned from this group. The group that stays home the most because their ideal candidate has not been chosen are the 20 something’s, the newer voters…And not coincidentally the older you get by decade the more likely you are to vote. [/quote]
No it isn’t. It’s old people protecting things old people feel they are entitled to. Old people, who vote in droves, are the reason social security, medicare, and medicaid will never be reformed. Old people are just a bad as young people when it comes to politics.
I don’t subscribe to the doomsday predictions a lot of folks seem to believe in right now. Nothing Obama has done is irreversible. Nothing Hillary could do is irreversible. This country has some problems, it has always had some problems. Reagan could rise up and serve 8 more years and we would still have problems. Jesus Christ could be President and we’d have problems at the end of his Presidency (and his approval rating would probably be 30% or so). Point being, that’s just how it is.
There are, what, 14 GOP candidates. I would vote for 13 of them just not Trump.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Three problems with your statement: First of all 47% of the people currently pay no tax so life does not change for them…they don’t care what “The Donald” is doing. Secondly, the democrats live to pander to those 47%, if Trump gets in a little pandering himself I’m good with that.
[/quote]
I paid no federal income taxes last year. I actually got about $100 from the government.[/quote]
So, you don’t work a job? or you work a job with little income? What? because I pay enough federal taxes to raise a welfare family of 8 with full benefits. [/quote]
4 kids and a wife on one income and it’s not very hard. With a $4000 child tax credit you only need to get your taxable income under ~$33,000. Standard deduction is $12,600, but I’m able to deduct a little more than that. Exemptions will add to $24,000. Health care premiums give me another $4000 deduction. I made up the rest in 401k, IRA, and HSA contributions.
The point is that the notion that 47% of us are all freeloaders being pandered to by democrats is an incredibly arrogant statement.[/quote]
Of course it was arrogant and figures in the elderly, disabled, and students which no moron would argue are the issue for having “no skin” in the game. One of the more idiotic fucking comments of all time. Yes, America’s issue is that the disabled and 90 year olds aren’t paying income taxes like the freeloaders they are.
And Republicans wonder why they couldn’t beat someone with low approval ratings.
You are misinterpreting what I wrote. All I meant was that if Hillary becomes president her disastrous term should shift people to conservative ideals. [/quote]
I understood and answered. I will shorten it: When 8 years of Obama didn’t “shift people” you think 8 years of Hillary will? No my friend it simply gets more people used to left wing politics and breeds candidates who are even worse like Bernie Sanders.
The only way Bernie or anyone like him ever has a chance is if we keep electing liberal democrats. 20 years ago Bernie would have been laughed off the public stage. But as we drift left with more and more liberal democratic Presidents we set the stage for a socialist.
I understand that desire but politicians being who they are will change principals the way a person changes his underwear. I wish it were different but that is the nature of most of them whether democrat or republican. I’ve seen enough elections to realize this…unfortunately.
You are still young…so I understand. And don’t take offense to that as I said most younger people will stay home if they don’t get someone that they like. It’s called “idealism” No problem…all I can say is that over the next 10 or so years you may change your mind.
By the way people don’t get elected promising to cut entitlements. If you are waiting for that candidate you got a long wait brother!
And by staying home you are helping move the country further to the left by allowing left wing dems to become President. Keep in mind that Bernie Sanders appeared after 7 years of Obama. Not after 7 years of a republican–ANY REPUBLICAN
Because somehow electing Donald Trump will prevent future generations from voting for a real conservative…Um sorry but that makes no sense. And history proves you wrong as well. We elected a middle of the road republican in Richard Nixon…who actually had to resign his office in disgrace. I guess it doesn’t get any worse than that does it? Yet, after 4 years of Jimmy Carter the republicans were back in charge when Ronald Reagan beat Carter a sitting President. There are other examples as well but my point is people will decide upon the man over the party every time. People vote with through emotion. They “like” or “dislike” someone regardless of party affiliation.
I do not disagree with the premise that older people are trying to protect their entitlements. However, that is a different issue. The fact is with every passing decade a person is more likely to vote in a Presidential race (and other elections as well). When you get your ass kicked enough times you learn to at least show up and go have your say at the polls. That is just a fact the older you get the more likely you are to vote.
That’s one you might want to think about. 19 Trillion in debt? Sure we could pay it down not impossible. How about losing face around the globe and watching Russia eat our lunch. Losing influence the middle east, Benghazi, countless other clusterfucks brought to us by Obama. Sure we can dig out but don’t think for a second that after 8 years of more left wing nonsense we will have any chance of digging out. That would be 16 straight years of liberal rule --OUCH!
Well, then you would be right 13 out of 14 times. That’s not a bad record.
You certainly can answer my above post up to you. But I’m pretty much through. We’ve both repeated our points several times.
4 kids and a wife on one income and it’s not very hard. With a $4000 child tax credit you only need to get your taxable income under ~$33,000. [/quote]
Do you mean you purposely make less money to get the deductions?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Three problems with your statement: First of all 47% of the people currently pay no tax so life does not change for them…they don’t care what “The Donald” is doing. Secondly, the democrats live to pander to those 47%, if Trump gets in a little pandering himself I’m good with that.
[/quote]
I paid no federal income taxes last year. I actually got about $100 from the government.[/quote]
So, you don’t work a job? or you work a job with little income? What? because I pay enough federal taxes to raise a welfare family of 8 with full benefits. [/quote]
4 kids and a wife on one income and it’s not very hard. With a $4000 child tax credit you only need to get your taxable income under ~$33,000. Standard deduction is $12,600, but I’m able to deduct a little more than that. Exemptions will add to $24,000. Health care premiums give me another $4000 deduction. I made up the rest in 401k, IRA, and HSA contributions.
The point is that the notion that 47% of us are all freeloaders being pandered to by democrats is an incredibly arrogant statement.[/quote]
Your saying that you feed and house a family of six on 2700.00 a month and still have enough left over for 401k, IRA, and HSA contributions?
Good for you.
I’m in CA and single, 2700.00 and I barely get by.
You are misinterpreting what I wrote. All I meant was that if Hillary becomes president her disastrous term should shift people to conservative ideals. [/quote]
I understood and answered. I will shorten it: When 8 years of Obama didn’t “shift people” you think 8 years of Hillary will? No my friend it simply gets more people used to left wing politics and breeds candidates who are even worse like Bernie Sanders.
[/quote]
This. A million times this. I just wanted to quote it for emphasis and support. Our country cannot handle even another four years of these Statist, tyrannical policies. We’ll never recover. There will be no way to. We are going to have an incredible time of it getting out of the whole we’ve already dug for ourselves.
Well over a hundred TRILLION dollars in unfunded liabilities, two hundred by some estimates. And these thieves want to give away even more? There will literally be no way to support this. If you think our financial system can just keep stacking more and more of this us and not collapse, well, there are certain European models we can look to right now. I know you know that.
This is the most important election in modern times. I know you hate Trump, but like Zeb is saying, think about how much different this country would be right now if we’d at least had Romney at the halm instead of Obama.
The good news is, I think that you are actually right, and that the voters already have swung back and are very ready for a real Conservative, and that we will have one. I don’t think it will be Trump, but he’s actually done a great job of flushing out the wishy washy guys we don’t want representing us like Jeb Bush.
However, I’ll even pinch my nose and vote for him if, God forbid, he wins the Republican nomination. God forbid.
You are misinterpreting what I wrote. All I meant was that if Hillary becomes president her disastrous term should shift people to conservative ideals. [/quote]
I understood and answered. I will shorten it: When 8 years of Obama didn’t “shift people” you think 8 years of Hillary will? No my friend it simply gets more people used to left wing politics and breeds candidates who are even worse like Bernie Sanders.
[/quote]
This. A million times this. I just wanted to quote it for emphasis and support. Our country cannot handle even another four years of these Statist, tyrannical policies. We’ll never recover. There will be no way to. We are going to have an incredible time of it getting out of the whole we’ve already dug for ourselves.
Well over a hundred TRILLION dollars in unfunded liabilities, two hundred by some estimates. And these thieves want to give away even more? There will literally be no way to support this. If you think our financial system can just keep stacking more and more of this up and not collapse, well, there are certain European models we can look to right now. I know you know that.
This is the most important election in modern times. I know you hate Trump, but like Zeb is saying, think about how much different this country would be right now if we’d at least had Romney at the halm instead of Obama.
The good news is, I think that you are actually right, and that the voters already have swung back and are very ready for a real Conservative, and that we will have one. I don’t think it will be Trump, but he’s actually done a great job of flushing out the wishy washy guys we don’t want representing us like Jeb Bush.
However, I’ll even pinch my nose and vote for him if, God forbid, he wins the Republican nomination. God forbid.
I think that what usmc is trying to articulate is that if Hillary Clinton were to run as a Republican against Bernie Sanders as a Democrat, Clinton would still not be worth voting for. Do those disagreeing with him believe that she would be worth voting for if only she were to run as a Republican? I’m almost sure that he has already stated that he does not believe that Trump is any more “conservative”(not even sure what the word means in a political context anymore) than Clinton.
