The Next President of the United States: II

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
If you remove Bernie Sanders from this mess you just have one gigantic ball of lies and bullshit (and Canadians). By the way before you jump on the Bernie Sanders thing, all I’m saying is that he at least says what he believes regardless of polls.[/quote]

lmao…

This kid thinks Sanders is any different than any of the other candidates when it comes to “balls of lies”…

I bet you are a hit in sociology department in college right?[/quote]

Countingbeans,

Well I’m not a kid, nor am I in a Sociology department somewhere, I am a 47 year old retiree from the military (Army Infantry) and then briefly the federal government. You seem to think I have some affinity for Sanders as well, I merely applaud his willingness to not try to poll every decision he makes. I’m trying to not make any smart-ass comments (unlike you) because it detracts from a conversation, but it seems to be your first response, weird.[/quote]

Sigh… Sanders is Ron Paul left, except full of fucking shit. When home in VT he’s fine with guns because people in VT love guns. National Stage and he’s all “common sense solutions”.

He’s so willing to stand by his stances and convictions he’s running on the Democrat ticket, super independent of him. Speaking of which, did this “independent” vote against the democrats a single time while in office?

Yes I took a humorous and somewhat juvenile swipe in my comment, but no it isn’t weird. It’s because you obviously haven’t looked at Sanders very hard if you actually believe what you wrote. I haven’t even looked at him hard, and see this bullshit.

I think you underestimate the electorate and over estimate the whole “voting for Obama makes me cool and totally not racist” turnout in 2008 and 2012. Sanders and his “I’ll give you a bunch of shit other people have to pay for” isn’t going to get Obama turnout, and neither is Clinton. Anything can happen in a general. You could be right, but you could be very, very wrong. [/quote]

First off I think you mean UNDER estimate the whole voting for Obama makes me cool… thing, and secondly at what point to I indicate that anyone (much less me) will be voting for Sanders? In fact your statement of “you could be right…” makes absolutely no sens e in the context in which you are using it. I can’t for a second imagine Sanders getting the Democratic nod so I don’t lose any sleep over his general election turnout numbers. All I said was that, whether you like his platform or not, he has at least said what he believes, regardless of popularity.
By the way, Sanders has been consistently okay with guns, he has voted against the Brady Bill (though a 20+ years later he voted for it), against a 2005 bill that would have held gunmakers liable for crimes committed with their products, he voted against stiffer background checks, and even though he has voted for some gun regulations he was actually quoted saying " â??if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I donâ??t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.â??, so he’s not really a flip-flopper on guns, you might want to find a different approach to slam him (his economic policies might be a good start.)

342

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

First off I think you mean UNDER estimate the whole voting for Obama makes me cool… thing, and secondly at what point to I indicate that anyone (much less me) will be voting for Sanders?[/quote]

No, I meant what I said.

That paragraph was in response to:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

By the way, I’m sure that you know with the exception of maybe Jeb Bush the rest of the GOP is just wishful thinking, none of that crew can win a general election held in the US.[/quote]

In fact, it does.

Calls himself independent, runs on the D ticket, votes with the D’s at some outrageous clip… That sure is “saying what he believes”.

Rated F by the NRA, and the most resent vote is a limit on standard capacity mags…

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm

He’s super pro-gun, so pro-gun he knows better than you or I how many cartridges you should have in your mag. And the litigation votes don’t count, the courts would have tossed anything even remotely close to the opposite anyway. It would have been an embarrassment.

His economic policies appeal children and leeches, and are based upon emotion and communistic rhetoric. The need to address them is little. Most of the electorate couldn’t pass a introductory to economics quiz if their life depended on it. It’d be like talking to the wall.

343

Beans,

As far as running on the D ticket or voting dem 99% of the time, I think that’s probably self explanatory, if you are really far left you are probably going to run on the closest viable ticket for maximum exposure, nobody takes the Socialist Party seriously in a general election and independents are as likely to identify with Ron Paul as John Anderson. By the way I am not arguing the merits of Bernie Sanders (which this has somehow devolved into) I was merely pointing out that in general both parties have shit forth a pretty horrific group of contenders consisting of science deniers, greedy assholes, avowed idiots and so on.

It would be much easier to pick a prom date from the sex offender registry than it would be to pick a President from this shallow grave of has beens and never will be’s. You can live in a dream world where you think 51% of the population shares your beliefs (or mine) but the reality is they don’t. There needs to be someone more in the middle and less divisive, the “Us v Them” rhetoric plays really well at county fairs and Sunday pulpits but it doesn’t fly on election day. Bring on John Huntsman.

344

I’m not a big Reason fan, but this article hits the nail on the head in regards to the most preferable 2016 candidates. Libertarians Should Hope for Clinton Versus Bush in 2016 . Without crowning someone emperor/king/grandmaster, it’s the best that 2016 can offer.

345

Pony:

A couple of things.

I think that I read somewhere that within the year, there was a push in Utah to get Huntsman to run again (I can’t remember if it was for President or for Governor again. I think he won for Governor every time he ran); and he turned it down flatly.

I think he is one of the smart ones who doesn’t want to put up with this crap.

When he did run for President, there were a few of us on this Forum who felt that he was the best candidate at the time (even though he ultimately didn’t make it far).

Mufasa

346

Support for Hillary among likely Democratic voters in California is slipping, from 59% to 53%.

347


But she has such influential friends.

348

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

By the way, I’m sure that you know with the exception of maybe Jeb Bush the rest of the GOP is just wishful thinking, none of that crew can win a general election held in the US.[/quote]

You are off the mark again.

Almost any one of the republican candidates would beat Hillary Clinton.

She is yesterday’s news…loaded down with scandal…and has zero charisma.

She’s not winning the White House, not now, not ever.

349

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Pony:

A couple of things.

I think that I read somewhere that within the year, there was a push in Utah to get Huntsman to run again (I can’t remember if it was for President or for Governor again. I think he won for Governor every time he ran); and he turned it down flatly.

I think he is one of the smart ones who doesn’t want to put up with this crap.

When he did run for President, there were a few of us on this Forum who felt that he was the best candidate at the time (even though he ultimately didn’t make it far).

Mufasa
[/quote]

He should change his registration to democrat (that fits his views far better than republican) and challenge Hillary Clinton in the primaries…he’d probably beat her.

350

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Support for Hillary among likely Democratic voters in California is slipping, from 59% to 53%.

It even gets worse when if you check the polls on democrat men. In fact, men in general would almost prefer anyone else other than Hillary Clinton.

So, she gains the democrat women and no doubt pulls in most independent women. But she loses all GOP men and a sizable number of democrat and independent men.

If the GOP puts up a good looking charismatic male that will chip into Hillary’s female base…

351

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Beans,

By the way I am not arguing the merits of Bernie Sanders (which this has somehow devolved into) (/quote)

You like Bernie admit it …come on fess up.

(quote) in general both parties have shit forth a pretty horrific group of contenders consisting of science deniers, greedy assholes, avowed idiots and so on. (/quote)

No way, this is the single best republican group of GOP candidates that I have seen in decades. You are being overly harsh because you don’t like republicans in general.

You already said you like Huntsman who is just left of Chris Christie who should in fact change parties and primary Hillary.

Your bias is showing.

352

If that was a Republican shaking hands with Bin, he would be eaten alive by the Left and the media.

353

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve a sincere question: other than voting against the GOP nominee for whatever reasons related to antipathy to Republicans in general why will the Hillary voter cast his/her ballot for her?

What is it about her specifically that makes her admirable enough to receive votes? Is it just her celebrity status? Her years in the limelight?

What has she done?[/quote]

Is there a Republican running that has greater experience or knowledge in the foreign policy realm?[/quote]

Answering a question with a question is one thing. Answering one with an irrelevant one is another.
[/quote]

Four years as Secretary of State is nothing to scoff at. Her foreign policy experience is extensive and blows the other candidates out of the water.[/quote]
I’m going to have to use a sick day today unfortunately. Got bad migraine headaches this morning. Can I be marked as sick?

The ability to hold a position does not constitute as experience. Her accomplishments are:

  1. Her gender (supposed)
  2. Her husband [/quote]

Four years as the second highest ranking American diplomat, second only to the Diplomat in Chief. She traveled more than any Secretary of State to date, visiting an average of 28 states per year during her tenure. Nearly 1,000,000 miles. But she doesn’t have any foreign policy experience, especially vis-a-vis the rest of the contenders in 2016?[/quote]

Really? The fact that she has TRAVELED makes her successful? So is she a Statesman? No. Can she manage the department? No. See Kissinger and Baker about how they can influence foreign policy. Don’t give he that “she serves at the behest of the president” crap.

She has been an abysmal failure. But hell, she has got a lot of stamps on her passport!
[/quote]

Bismark didn’t say HRC was successful. He said she has experience. And extensive experience at that, and was implementing someone else’s strategy in FP. Those are all very true. She DOES blow all the other candidates experience out of the water. You’re sticking your head in the sand because you despise her. For that matter, I do too–but I’m going to recognize the time she spent doing the job she was assigned.

Bismark didn’t say her experience was a net positive for the administration, nor did he say she was successful. He said that HRC has far more experience than any other candidate in FP…and that is undeniably true.[/quote]

Thank you for conveying what I failed to do. You are among the most impartial posters on this forum.

354

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Beans,

By the way I am not arguing the merits of Bernie Sanders (which this has somehow devolved into) (/quote)

You like Bernie admit it …come on fess up.

(quote) in general both parties have shit forth a pretty horrific group of contenders consisting of science deniers, greedy assholes, avowed idiots and so on. (/quote)

No way, this is the single best republican group of GOP candidates that I have seen in decades. You are being overly harsh because you don’t like republicans in general.

You already said you like Huntsman who is just left of Chris Christie who should in fact change parties and primary Hillary.

Your bias is showing.
[/quote]

There are some extant and disconcerting disparities in experience between the GOP field and HRC, especially in regard to foreign policy. Given the state of the international system (and the electorate’s perception of it), that issue area could prove to be decisive in 2016.

355

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Pony:

A couple of things.

I think that I read somewhere that within the year, there was a push in Utah to get Huntsman to run again (I can’t remember if it was for President or for Governor again. I think he won for Governor every time he ran); and he turned it down flatly.

I think he is one of the smart ones who doesn’t want to put up with this crap.

When he did run for President, there were a few of us on this Forum who felt that he was the best candidate at the time (even though he ultimately didn’t make it far).

Mufasa
[/quote]

He should change his registration to democrat (that fits his views far better than republican) and challenge Hillary Clinton in the primaries…he’d probably beat her.
[/quote]

That’s total Bullshit, and you know it, Zeb.

This guy ran the most Conservative State in the Union…and won more than once. While I’m no expert on Utah politics; my understanding is that a DEMOCRAT can barely be elected the PTA President there (if at all).

Mufasa

356

The Straw Poll Results of the just completed Southern Republican Leadership Conference in Oklahoma City:

Dr. Ben Carson: 25.4%

Gov. Scott Walker: 20.5%

Sen. Ted Cruz: 16.6%

Gov. Chris Christie: 5.3%

Gov. Rick Perry: 5.0%

Gov. Jeb Bush: 4.9%

Sen. Rand Paul: 4.1%
Sen. Marco Rubio: 4.1%
Gov. Bobby Jindal: 4.1%

Carly Fiorina: 2.7%
Gov. Mike Huckabee: 2.7%
Sen. Rick Santorum: 1.9%
Donald Trump: 1.2%
Mark Everson: 0.8%
Sen. Lindsey Graham: 0.5%
Gov. John Kasich: 0.2%
Gov. Jim Gilmore: 0.0%

Let’s hope these sentiments don’t continue for another year and a half…or get used to saying “President Clinton” again. (Even though I do like Scott Walker’s showing).

Mufasa

357

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If that was a Republican shaking hands with Bin, he would be eaten alive by the Left and the media. [/quote]

Yeah, we sure wouldn’t want that to happen.

360

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Pony:

A couple of things.

I think that I read somewhere that within the year, there was a push in Utah to get Huntsman to run again (I can’t remember if it was for President or for Governor again. I think he won for Governor every time he ran); and he turned it down flatly.

I think he is one of the smart ones who doesn’t want to put up with this crap.

When he did run for President, there were a few of us on this Forum who felt that he was the best candidate at the time (even though he ultimately didn’t make it far).

Mufasa
[/quote]

He should change his registration to democrat (that fits his views far better than republican) and challenge Hillary Clinton in the primaries…he’d probably beat her.
[/quote]

That’s total Bullshit, and you know it, Zeb.

This guy ran the most Conservative State in the Union…and won more than once. While I’m no expert on Utah politics; my understanding is that a DEMOCRAT can barely be elected the PTA President there (if at all).

Mufasa
[/quote]

Hey buddy I know you are not a conservative and that’s okay. But, I really want you to know the difference between a real republican and what John Huntsman is. The only reason he didn’t run as a democrat in Utah is because he would never get elected in such a blue state. So, he continues to disguise himself as a democrat in republican clothing. Here you go read about Obama’s choice for Ambassador to China.

“Huntsman lands a job in a liberal think tank”

Krauthammer: ‘Huntsman is a liberalâ??s idea of what a Republican ought to be’

Krauthammer: ‘Huntsman is a liberal’s idea of what a Republican ought to be’ | The Daily Caller

“John Huntsman: Liberal media’s’ pet candidate”

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-turn/2011/02/john_huntsman_liberal_medias_p.html

Even his incredibly good looking daughter wants to be a democrat:

“Abby Huntsman teases party switch”

“Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman (R) left his post as President Obamaâ??s ambassador to China last month in order to pursue a potential bid for the presidency. During his ambassadorship, Huntsman penned multiple letters to Obama in which he praised the presidentâ??s â??remarkableâ?? leadership”

Cough…spit up a little…Obama’s “remarkable leadership”? WHAT?

“REPORT: Jon Huntsmanâ??s Secret Life As A Progressive”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/19/167282/huntsman-progressive-past/

More really good reading on LIBERAL John Huntsman:

"Argued stimulus package was too small: When the economic stimulus bill passed, Huntsman criticized fellow GOP governors who refused to take stimulus money for engaging in â??gratuitous political griping.â?? Later in 2009, he added: â??I guess in hindsight, we can all say that there were some fundamental flaws with it. It probably wasnâ??t large enoughâ?? â?? an argument advanced by, among others, liberal economist Paul Krugman.

Supported a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants: Huntsman supported comprehensive immigration reforms during his time as governor, including a path-to-citizenship program for undocumented immigrants who came to America for work-related purposes and a plan for young immigrants that sounds eerily similar to the DREAM Act: â??A lot of these kids were either born here or certainly were not in a position in their earlier lives to have any influence over the outcome of their journey,â?? he said. â??They were brought here. Does that mean we disregard them and we kind of cancel them out from achieving the American dream?â??

Supported cap-and-trade: Huntsman supported a cap-and-trade policy to limit the countryâ??s carbon emissions. He signed Utah onto the Western Climate Initiative that would lead to a cap-and-trade system, and during the 2008 gubernatorial debate, said, â??Until we put a value on carbon, weâ??re never going to be able to get serious about dealing with climate change.â?? He also touted the University of Utahâ??s status as a leading center of innovation on carbon capture programs and advocated moving toward a â??greener economy.â?? He recently reiterated his belief in climate change, saying, â??All I know is 90 percent of the scientists say climate change is occurring. If 90 percent of the oncological community said something was causing cancer weâ??d listen to them."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/19/167282/huntsman-progressive-past/