I asked this question on fakebook, 75 degrees was CT’s response
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Anthony50 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
@CT,
How would you layer the snatch deadlift or a deadlift?
Thank you[/quote]
I wouldn’t[/quote]
CT,
I’m assuming this also rules out the dead-squat. Is that right?[/quote]
Actually the deadsquat is fine because it’s more of a squat pattern and you can do a proper eccentric on it
[/quote]
Excellent!
Thank you for the quick reply, CT!
Hello!
Can this can be done efficiently with dips, primarily for chest?
Thank you!
CT I’m also wondering - would you would still use layers for biceps if one is using layers for the Chinese row, since the biceps will get hit hard already - albeit indirectly? Thank you.
[quote]Sven-Andreas wrote:
Hello!
Can this can be done efficiently with dips, primarily for chest?
Thank you!
[/quote]
Only if you are VERY strong. Bcause you need to factor in body weight. (for example if you are 185lbs and used an additional 100lbs the weight moved was 285… so 90% would be 256lbs… and since you are 185 it means using an additional 71lbs).
NOW, since there is a layer where you use 50% of the weight moved it means that you need to be pretty strong to be able to use layers with dips. For example if you are 185lbs and did a 2RM with an additional 100lbs for a total of 285lbs, 50% of that is 142lbs. THE PROBLEM is that you weight 185… so even if you don’t use any weight you are 40lbs over the weight you should be using.
I you are 185lbs it means that you need to be able to move a total weight of at least 370lbs (twice your body weight) which means using an additional 185lbs tied around your waist.
So to be able to use the layers with dips you need to be able to do 2 reps with your bodyweight between held between your legs and few people can do that.
[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
CT I’m also wondering - would you would still use layers for biceps if one is using layers for the Chinese row, since the biceps will get hit hard already - albeit indirectly? Thank you.[/quote]
No I would do pump work for the biceps
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
CT I’m also wondering - would you would still use layers for biceps if one is using layers for the Chinese row, since the biceps will get hit hard already - albeit indirectly? Thank you.[/quote]
No I would do pump work for the biceps[/quote]
Thanks that’s what I was leaning toward, makes sense. Stick with 3x6-8 for biceps (per the article for additional lifts) or more like 3-4x8-12?
[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
CT I’m also wondering - would you would still use layers for biceps if one is using layers for the Chinese row, since the biceps will get hit hard already - albeit indirectly? Thank you.[/quote]
No I would do pump work for the biceps[/quote]
Thanks that’s what I was leaning toward, makes sense. Stick with 3x6-8 for biceps (per the article for additional lifts) or more like 3-4x8-12? [/quote]
For biceps it doesn’t matter. It’s isolation work that is not impactful on the NS. You can even do intensity techniques as long as you don’t go overboard.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Sven-Andreas wrote:
Hello!
Can this can be done efficiently with dips, primarily for chest?
Thank you!
[/quote]
Only if you are VERY strong. Bcause you need to factor in body weight. (for example if you are 185lbs and used an additional 100lbs the weight moved was 285… so 90% would be 256lbs… and since you are 185 it means using an additional 71lbs).
NOW, since there is a layer where you use 50% of the weight moved it means that you need to be pretty strong to be able to use layers with dips. For example if you are 185lbs and did a 2RM with an additional 100lbs for a total of 285lbs, 50% of that is 142lbs. THE PROBLEM is that you weight 185… so even if you don’t use any weight you are 40lbs over the weight you should be using.
I you are 185lbs it means that you need to be able to move a total weight of at least 370lbs (twice your body weight) which means using an additional 185lbs tied around your waist.
So to be able to use the layers with dips you need to be able to do 2 reps with your bodyweight between held between your legs and few people can do that.
[/quote]
I actually tried it before I read your answer. Could not fulfill with good form. Thank you again!
I was about to do something completely different since I just finished a strength program which yielded good results, and thought I had to do hypertrophy training, didn’t know how to keep it simple with some heavy weights and sound programming…
And here comes the new layer system.
A number of factors made Squats day 1 HARD (lacking quality nutrition and sleep during a 1-week vacation, or forgetting my headphones and having to listen to eurotrash @the gym instead?), and I have huge soreness today.
This is one awesome way of training for guys like me who like to do one big lift for one hour, and quick assistance. I added farmer walks yesterday.
Since you don’t like the layer system and deadlifting , is it fine with Zercher Lifts ?
Hello CT
As we know that High Pulls was irreplaceable in the maiden version of Layer system for very good reasons, but in the recent version do you think we can tinker with exercises to replace the high pull layer with chinese row layer and some other accessories including rear delt work and trap work without impacting the efficacy of the whole system. Please don’t get me wrong as I have used the original layer system with 2 high pull days very successfully reaching upto 325 lbs very rapidly and 405 lbs on low pulls in the strength version, but recently I’m at a gym where it isn’t possible to perform high pulls and I’m really excited to try the new system.
I’ll greatly appreciate your response and thanks for the awesome info you provide.
[quote]PKS wrote:
Hi Thibs…I’ve had great results over the years using your original layers system and the many cool variants of it you have put together.
Lately I’ve been having awesome results following your loaded stretch protocol too. ESPECIALLY for calves, both soleus and gastrocs. So a huge thank you for that!
Q: could we include loaded stretches in there somewhere or is that overkill? Maybe on the last set or two of the mTor sets?
Thanks again!
-Pete[/quote]
VERY curious about this as well
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Sven-Andreas wrote:
Hello!
Can this can be done efficiently with dips, primarily for chest?
Thank you!
[/quote]
Only if you are VERY strong. Bcause you need to factor in body weight. (for example if you are 185lbs and used an additional 100lbs the weight moved was 285… so 90% would be 256lbs… and since you are 185 it means using an additional 71lbs).
NOW, since there is a layer where you use 50% of the weight moved it means that you need to be pretty strong to be able to use layers with dips. For example if you are 185lbs and did a 2RM with an additional 100lbs for a total of 285lbs, 50% of that is 142lbs. THE PROBLEM is that you weight 185… so even if you don’t use any weight you are 40lbs over the weight you should be using.
I you are 185lbs it means that you need to be able to move a total weight of at least 370lbs (twice your body weight) which means using an additional 185lbs tied around your waist.
So to be able to use the layers with dips you need to be able to do 2 reps with your bodyweight between held between your legs and few people can do that.
[/quote]
For this reasoning, I am curious why programs that use percentages don’t include the body weight for the squat as well.
I actually have a similar question as regards the high pull in the original layer system, notably - the drop from 2x/week to 1x/week. Why the switch?
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Sven-Andreas wrote:
Hello!
Can this can be done efficiently with dips, primarily for chest?
Thank you!
[/quote]
Only if you are VERY strong. Bcause you need to factor in body weight. (for example if you are 185lbs and used an additional 100lbs the weight moved was 285… so 90% would be 256lbs… and since you are 185 it means using an additional 71lbs).
NOW, since there is a layer where you use 50% of the weight moved it means that you need to be pretty strong to be able to use layers with dips. For example if you are 185lbs and did a 2RM with an additional 100lbs for a total of 285lbs, 50% of that is 142lbs. THE PROBLEM is that you weight 185… so even if you don’t use any weight you are 40lbs over the weight you should be using.
I you are 185lbs it means that you need to be able to move a total weight of at least 370lbs (twice your body weight) which means using an additional 185lbs tied around your waist.
So to be able to use the layers with dips you need to be able to do 2 reps with your bodyweight between held between your legs and few people can do that.
[/quote]
For this reasoning, I am curious why programs that use percentages don’t include the body weight for the squat as well.
[/quote]
That is actually a good question. In the bench and military press it wouldn’t make a difference but in the squat it does. The only reason I could give you is that the weight in the squat is much heavier (barbell weight) and you are lifting about 70% of the weight of your body which would have less of an impact then in the dip or chins where you are lifting 100% of your body weight and are using much less additional weight.
For example if you weight 185lbs and squat 365 you are lifting a total of about 495lbs (365 + 70% of 185lbs)… if you are shooting for 80% it would mean a total weight of 395lbs. Since 70% of your bodyweight is 130lbs it means putting 265lbs on the barbell. If you are using only barbell weight to calculate 80% it comes down to 290lbs. A decent difference but not as bad as with bodyweight exercises because with BWT exercises most of the resistance is in the form of your bodyweight and it cannot be adjusted.
But yeah, if we were smart we would factor in bodyweight on all major lifts when calculating percentages.
[quote]jasper41 wrote:
Hello CT
As we know that High Pulls was irreplaceable in the maiden version of Layer system for very good reasons, but in the recent version do you think we can tinker with exercises to replace the high pull layer with chinese row layer and some other accessories including rear delt work and trap work without impacting the efficacy of the whole system. Please don’t get me wrong as I have used the original layer system with 2 high pull days very successfully reaching upto 325 lbs very rapidly and 405 lbs on low pulls in the strength version, but recently I’m at a gym where it isn’t possible to perform high pulls and I’m really excited to try the new system.
I’ll greatly appreciate your response and thanks for the awesome info you provide.[/quote]
The Chinese row cannot replace the high pulls. Not the same type of stimulation. Honestly no exercise can replace the type of stimulus placed by the high pulls. If I have to pick one exercise to replace the high pulls if you can’t do them it would be the Kaworski shrugs… which is basically a combination of shrugs and upright row. Pulling the bar to a height between your navel and bottom of rip cage.
[quote]PKS wrote:
Hi Thibs…I’ve had great results over the years using your original layers system and the many cool variants of it you have put together.
Lately I’ve been having awesome results following your loaded stretch protocol too. ESPECIALLY for calves, both soleus and gastrocs. So a huge thank you for that!
Q: could we include loaded stretches in there somewhere or is that overkill? Maybe on the last set or two of the mTor sets?
Thanks again!
-Pete[/quote]
You can definitely add some EQIs at the end of the session. Ideally for one of the muscles involved in the main lift.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]jasper41 wrote:
Hello CT
As we know that High Pulls was irreplaceable in the maiden version of Layer system for very good reasons, but in the recent version do you think we can tinker with exercises to replace the high pull layer with chinese row layer and some other accessories including rear delt work and trap work without impacting the efficacy of the whole system. Please don’t get me wrong as I have used the original layer system with 2 high pull days very successfully reaching upto 325 lbs very rapidly and 405 lbs on low pulls in the strength version, but recently I’m at a gym where it isn’t possible to perform high pulls and I’m really excited to try the new system.
I’ll greatly appreciate your response and thanks for the awesome info you provide.[/quote]
The Chinese row cannot replace the high pulls. Not the same type of stimulation. Honestly no exercise can replace the type of stimulus placed by the high pulls. If I have to pick one exercise to replace the high pulls if you can’t do them it would be the Kaworski shrugs… which is basically a combination of shrugs and upright row. Pulling the bar to a height between your navel and bottom of rip cage.[/quote]
Thank You very much coach, I have a couple of questions about using Karwoski shrugs if you don’t mind.
- Should the movement with Karwoski shrugs be initiated explosively like that of SGHP or in a controlled manner like shrugs?
- Grip width has to be snatch grip or just outside shoulders?
Thanks again for the quick and precise reply.
[quote]jasper41 wrote:
- Should the movement with Karwoski shrugs be initiated explosively like that of SGHP or in a controlled manner like shrugs?
- Grip width has to be snatch grip or just outside shoulders?
Thanks again for the quick and precise reply.[/quote]
The Kaworsky shrugs are not explosive
Use a “clean” grip… slightly wider than shoulders