The Muslim Holocaust

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Damn Bodyguard. I am liking the new “you” presented here (on page 3). I like the more “prepared” posts you are making a million times more than the stream-of-consiousness stuff you have posted up in the past. Of course, I understand you are doing it mostly from sheer annoyance and the desire to nit-pick back, as your response “there is no LOL here” shows, but I still like reading your posts more!

I think we disagree rather seriously on a lot of issues, but I’d like to read your posts more now than before.[/quote]

Hey, what’s wrong with stream of consciousness? [/quote]

Nothing, generally speaking. But with this new posting style, I can follow BG’s arguments much easier, and they make much more sense, with less profanity and aggravated/frustrated language, with less calling out and internet-yelling at people he doesn’t like. He’s more civil (not that he’s the only one who had or has problems with it. Far from it in fact! Myself included). I will say in the past he has really aggravated me more than others, although I usually do my best to avoid responding when aggravated or jumping into a thread already in full-blown war.

I like thought out posts, regardless of whether I ultimately agree with the position they state or not. They get me to think harder and more often. Pretty much all of BG’s posts in this thread have been really well thought out and I was showing my sincere appreciation. :slight_smile:

Go bodyguard!

122

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You’re changing the subject and engaging in fallacious relativist reasoning.

The commentary is about the loss of innocent lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, not about lives lost elsewhere. [quote]

Why did the author just limit his commentary to just Iraq and Afghanistan? There is a bigger picture out there if he wanted to write about a true “Muslim Holocaust”. Those were the points I brought up. As it is, the commentary is anti-American and could just as well have been written by a number of American bashers on this site.

123

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[You are yet another poster changing the subject and failing to make a claim.

If the estimates are “wild”, rebut them. What does the subject have to do with deaths in Germany? Again, it’s relativistic obfuscation. Discuss the topic! Were innocent lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan and did the press under-report or not report and why? If it’s not worth “debating” why comment?[/quote]

I don’t know, everytime a suicide bomber strikes either in Iraq or Afghanistan, there are news reports which states how many people were killed. Just because no one bothered to add them all up doesn’t mean they were never reported by the news.

124

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Though the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was complex, we must not forget that the two bloodiest wars in human history were waged in Christendom within the last century.[/quote]

Wait, which ones?[/quote]

WWI and WWII, with a shout out to our Shinto brethren.

[/quote]

WWI and WWII were not religious wars. Enless you call Nazism and Communism religions.

125

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Though the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was complex, we must not forget that the two bloodiest wars in human history were waged in Christendom within the last century.[/quote]

Wait, which ones?[/quote]

WWII (undisputed) and WWI including the 1918 flu pandemic which was born of the war and would otherwise never have reached global distribution or mutated to such an extent as to be so lethal. If you’d like to remove WWI my point still stands.[/quote]

…nazi germany is chirtendom…?

And I’m confused are yall contending that these wars happened in places that were christian or that Christianity was part of the conflict?[/quote]

As I said, the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was a complex one and its something I’m not going to get into now.

Germany, though, was primarily Christian, regardless of the Nazi party’s cognitive dissonance with regard to belief. Hitler was elected by a Christian nation and the people who waged the war–the troops that did the actual killing–were overwhelmingly Christian on both the Allied and Axis sides.

The war took place in Christendom, yes.

Perhaps there are better examples, like every war in Europe for the entirety of the Early and High Middle Ages.

The claim that Christianity has blood–tons of fucking blood–on its hands is not seriously disputed by rational people.[/quote]

So, just because some Nazis were Christians makes all Christians evil? Even though the motives of the Nazis had nothing to do with Christianity?

126

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Though the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was complex, we must not forget that the two bloodiest wars in human history were waged in Christendom within the last century.[/quote]

Wait, which ones?[/quote]

WWII (undisputed) and WWI including the 1918 flu pandemic which was born of the war and would otherwise never have reached global distribution or mutated to such an extent as to be so lethal. If you’d like to remove WWI my point still stands.[/quote]

…nazi germany is chirtendom…?

And I’m confused are yall contending that these wars happened in places that were christian or that Christianity was part of the conflict?[/quote]

As I said, the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was a complex one and its something I’m not going to get into now.

Germany, though, was primarily Christian, regardless of the Nazi party’s cognitive dissonance with regard to belief. Hitler was elected by a Christian nation and the people who waged the war–the troops that did the actual killing–were overwhelmingly Christian on both the Allied and Axis sides.

The war took place in Christendom, yes.

Perhaps there are better examples, like every war in Europe for the entirety of the Early and High Middle Ages.

The claim that Christianity has blood–tons of fucking blood–on its hands is not seriously disputed by rational people.[/quote]

So, just because some Nazis were Christians makes all Christians evil? Even though the motives of the Nazis had nothing to do with Christianity?[/quote]

What does it matter, when Muslims go to war on Muslims it is counted as inter Muslim war by people who hardly grasp their reasons, so I will simply count Christian on Christian violence even though I might understand their reasons a little better.

127

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
BG, I believe the Quran is the only major religious text that condones killing the enemies of the religion. Could be mistaken though- wouldnt be a first.[/quote]

Assuming for a moment this is correct, doesn’t the Bible “teach” many things that no longer occur? Killing? Sacrifices, etc.? I think the question is how the majority practice the religion - not the extremist, because there are extremist in all disciplines. And the more I talk about all this religious stuff, the more I lean toward Buddhism. [/quote]

Sorry I didn’t even answer your question in any of my posts. You’re 100% correct there are many things in the bible that no long occur. Good point regarding the extremists- my question is why are the majority of Muslims (moderates I would guess) not taking actions against the extremist? [/quote]

That’s a complex answer. For one, many of the extremist happen to be their leaders. For another, from their point of view, they are involved in a defensive war. I repeat, they haven’t exactly occupied any of our territories.

I’m not advocating for one side or the other. I think war is wrong and I think we are not innocent and neither are they. There is plenty of blame to spread and not enough “faith” in that which both claim to believe. I’m just saying I can understand their position. When was the last time you had a Muslim military force occupying US soil? If we did, it might change your perspective and give some insight into the rhetoric.

As for inaction, don’t we have religious extremist in our very country? What have we done? Abortion clinics are bombed. The topic itself is a political hot potato - because of the religious right. Gays still can’t marry in most States. Racism is still justified by perverted biblical reference. And of course, we do have domestic terrorism.

Apparently there are no easy answers here. But maybe the answer is that which we can’t seem to do - love each other. Isn’t that the true teaching of the various faiths?
[/quote]

Your last paragraph is spot on! I completely agree with it, if people pulled their heads out of their asses this world would be a much better place.

I never though about the defensive war point of view you bring up. But that makes a lot of sense. Damn you are a bloody brilliant devils advocate BG.

My originally point was that Islam can be very hostile in a perverted form, but you are right, most all religions can be that way (from your other post).

What do you think we should do?
Also, if you ever find yourself in central va let me buy you a beer.[/quote]

What I think we should do, we will never do. It’s not in man’s nature or his institutions (including religion). We will continue to hate. And we will continue to have war. I’ll take you up on that beer.

128

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Damn Bodyguard. I am liking the new “you” presented here (on page 3). I like the more “prepared” posts you are making a million times more than the stream-of-consiousness stuff you have posted up in the past. Of course, I understand you are doing it mostly from sheer annoyance and the desire to nit-pick back, as your response “there is no LOL here” shows, but I still like reading your posts more!

I think we disagree rather seriously on a lot of issues, but I’d like to read your posts more now than before.[/quote]

I’m not doing it annoy or nit pick back. I’m holding people to a standard on serious topics. If we’re going to “debate” we might as well do it right. You won’t find me taking umbrage with logic and such in GAL or SAMA.,

129

Bodyguard–my mistake! I totally agree. Looking forward to more thought provoking posts from you.

130

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Though the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was complex, we must not forget that the two bloodiest wars in human history were waged in Christendom within the last century.[/quote]

Wait, which ones?[/quote]

WWII (undisputed) and WWI including the 1918 flu pandemic which was born of the war and would otherwise never have reached global distribution or mutated to such an extent as to be so lethal. If you’d like to remove WWI my point still stands.[/quote]

…nazi germany is chirtendom…?

And I’m confused are yall contending that these wars happened in places that were christian or that Christianity was part of the conflict?[/quote]

As I said, the relationship between the Nazi party and religion was a complex one and its something I’m not going to get into now.

Germany, though, was primarily Christian, regardless of the Nazi party’s cognitive dissonance with regard to belief. Hitler was elected by a Christian nation and the people who waged the war–the troops that did the actual killing–were overwhelmingly Christian on both the Allied and Axis sides.

The war took place in Christendom, yes.

Perhaps there are better examples, like every war in Europe for the entirety of the Early and High Middle Ages.

The claim that Christianity has blood–tons of fucking blood–on its hands is not seriously disputed by rational people.[/quote]

So, just because some Nazis were Christians makes all Christians evil? Even though the motives of the Nazis had nothing to do with Christianity?[/quote]

If you want to take the time read through my last 5 or so posts, which address this. If you have done so and you still think I’m saying “because some Nazis were Christians all Christians are evil,” then you are really stupid.

131

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Christianity defined the nations that waged these wars. Many were overtly religious, some were not. My point is simply that, regardless of the original intention of a religion’s founders, vicious man will bend any powerful institution into a weapon. That, to me, is what has mattered most in history.

To paraphrase my boy Mark Twain, Christianity is a wonderful idea and its a shame no nation has ever tried it.[/quote]

Thats one of my favorite Twain quotes (paraphrased)[/quote]

lol I find myself quoting Twain way more often than most people would consider normal. The guy was an absolute genius. Knew how to rock the shit out of an all-white suit too.[/quote]

We should have a “like” button for posts. This would get a big thumbs up from me![/quote]

I really like that idea of making a “like” button. If only there were some sort of shorter way to express my liking of the proposal of a “like” button, like maybe a button or something.

132

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
What I think we should do, we will never do. It’s not in man’s nature or his institutions (including religion). We will continue to hate. And we will continue to have war. I’ll take you up on that beer.[/quote]

Im with you, but, to me that just feels like giving up on such a vast scale. I’ve got a few buddies at school with me studying policy and international relations and I asked them the same thing and they looked at me like I was an idiot. One of them even said “why stop?” I am rarely speechless, but I was then.

133

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
What I think we should do, we will never do. It’s not in man’s nature or his institutions (including religion). We will continue to hate. And we will continue to have war. I’ll take you up on that beer.[/quote]

Im with you, but, to me that just feels like giving up on such a vast scale. I’ve got a few buddies at school with me studying policy and international relations and I asked them the same thing and they looked at me like I was an idiot. One of them even said “why stop?” I am rarely speechless, but I was then.[/quote]

Well the answer is simple. Love each other and refrain from violence.

It will never happen.

135

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
]

Well the answer is simple. Love each other and refrain from violence.

[/quote]

Ironic, coming from you.
[/quote]

As much as the above is ironical coming from you, because you know me from the internet.

136

[quote]smh23 wrote:
If you want to take the time read through my last 5 or so posts, which address this. If you have done so and you still think I’m saying “because some Nazis were Christians all Christians are evil,” then you are really stupid.[/quote]

I’m not stupid, just seeing if you or anyone was stupid enough to agree.

137

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
]

Well the answer is simple. Love each other and refrain from violence.

[/quote]

Ironic, coming from you.
[/quote]

As much as the above is ironical coming from you, because you know me from the internet. [/quote]

LOL

138

[quote]orion wrote:

What does it matter, when Muslims go to war on Muslims it is counted as inter Muslim war by people who hardly grasp their reasons, so I will simply count Christian on Christian violence even though I might understand their reasons a little better.

[/quote]

So if you want to talk about the atrocites of the Godless Communists in the 20th Century, you would blame buddhists, followers of confucius and orthodox christians? It happened in their lands, so they must all be to blame, right?

139

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

What does it matter, when Muslims go to war on Muslims it is counted as inter Muslim war by people who hardly grasp their reasons, so I will simply count Christian on Christian violence even though I might understand their reasons a little better.

[/quote]

So if you want to talk about the atrocites of the Godless Communists in the 20th Century, you would blame buddhists, followers of confucius and orthodox christians? It happened in their lands, so they must all be to blame, right?

[/quote]

If you believe that every war between Muslim nations is caused by their religion, why yes, of course.