There were large sections of the South that abstained. South Carolina abstained completely. Many counties in many southern states abstained.
He won the North hands down… But there was something else all together happening in the South. They were not voting for a president, they were voting for their own country. That makes it precarious. He didn’t lose the election in 1860, he was losing the country. 11 states giving the United States the finger and moving to the Confederacy ready to fight for it. The South had no confidence in the Union so they didn’t care.
It wasn’t just rich slave owners. In the few places that votes were counted, Lincoln got zero.
You don’t get it and I cannot help you get it. He won the election and lost the country. That’s worse than losing an election.
TBH you’re 100% right. I’m probably never going to understand Lincoln’s loss of the popular vote (hue). I’m also never going to understand why a system that allows states to reject and ignore the votes of its people is the best system
Aaaaaand the goal posts move rofl.
We’ve clearly reached agree to disagree territory, and given how horrible you are with American history (although I’m clearly just as bad for not fact checking you sooner), there’s not much to gain by us continuing. Have a good one.
Edit: I’ll be over here dreaming of a day where we’re all voting with equal weight lolol.
If you win an election in half the country and the other half leaves, that’s not winning the popular election, that’s a break up of the country. The south was already looking to it’s own self interests. The election of any northern republican was simply a catalyst to what the south had in mind.
Read the Mississippi Secession article in particular because it was the first. The country was breaking up. Lincoln was the unlucky fucker that lost the south before the election took place.
This isn’t ‘agree to disagree’, this is you not understanding the state of the nation at that time. Lincoln didn’t lose the southern vote, he lost half the country the actual country in it’s entirety.
You seem to really be struggling with this concept. If you get more votes than anybody else running, that’s winning the popular vote. If you want to say he won the popular vote but the whole country didn’t vote, cool?
I understand the state of the nation just fine. I also understand Lincoln didn’t actually
Like I said, very very clear agree to disagree territory.
Fast forward to the 29:00 minute mark and watch to the 31:00 minute point. This explains this. It is my source:
If you have a problem with it, write the experts on the show.
You really ought to watch the whole series, you can access it on pbs.org. It’s 5 shows.
But do not resond until you have watched the 2 minutes I isolated for you.
If you lose more than 40% of the nation to a different nation, you didn’t win the national vote. You lost almost half the country to another country.
But Lincoln still won the popular vote.
Lol sorry man I’m not going to watch that. The reception is really bad over here in agree to disagree territory.
Lincoln won the popular vote. You can add modifiers to that statement to make yourself feel better about the electoral system that was allowed to ignore it’s people’s votes all you want, I’m already pretty bored with it.
Have a good one
You missed the point entirely, I provided evidence and you refuse to look at 2 minutes of film. The situation was vastly different as the nation’s existence was at stake.
Further, I already answered the entire question way before when I stated:
In the north… Everything south of the Mason Dixon line became a different country. That’s not winning the presidency of the United States when 11 of those states become a different country. Then your president of half the states you were elected to govern. Jefferson Davis was the president in the south and Lincoln the north. There were 2 presidents. Lincoln and Jefferson Davis.
I am not sure why this is hard to understand…
I didn’t miss the point, I just didn’t need the video to understand what you were saying. It’s not a complex thought lol.
The stance I held was that i think the nation would be better served with ALL popular vote elections instead of 99%. Your rebuttal was that the electoral process allowed Lincoln to win and American slavery ended
Except it wasn’t the electoral college that gave us Lincoln, as both methods would have CLEARLY resulted in a Lincoln victory.
You’re perfectly allowed to think a system that dilutes and inflates the weighting of POTUS votes is the best way to do things, millions and millions of people agree with you. I’m just not one of them.
I do thank you, however, for demonstrating a system that allowed the south to ignore their votes and take away their ability to vote is still somehow the best approach. It’s not a position I agree with, but it sure takes some balls to say “this way is better, and here’s an example of how millions of people’s rights were taken away in order to prove it.”
If this isn’t PWI in a nutshell, lol…
@pfury is saying X number of people voted and Lincoln received the most votes; therefore, he won the popular vote. This is black and white accurate.
@pat is saying that half of the country didn’t vote because they wanted to leave the union. In other words, their lack of a vote was a vote against the Union and against Lincoln. Meaning the popular vote was incomplete at best because half the country wanted to leave the union and expressed as much by not voting. He basically won a hollow race. This is grey area accurate.
Has literally nothing to do with the memo.
1 Like
Perfect observation…
And I was also saying this observation was backed up by historical reference and provided said reference.
It has nothing to do with the memo(s)…
I thought you were bored and done?
Did they actually? Is there a magic vote that the south took of it’s people that showed an overwhelming number of people wanted to leave the US and keep owning people?
OR, did the leadership of the south take it upon themselves to take away their people’s votes without their permission?
I was more bored with a work day wrapping up 
1 Like
Asked and answered. You refused to look.
Well shit. Guess I’m definitely gonna have to skim that video now lol
1 Like
It’s damn well done. Extensively researched and well put together, telling the story from all sides. The one posted is the last in a 5 episode series. It’s called “The Civil War: The Untold Story”. You can get the whole thing off PBS.org or YouTube.
So I watched the 29-31 minute mark you said to watch. A single line of some speaker saying Lincoln was able to win the popular vote =! Lincoln lost the pop vote the first time (mostly because he didn’t, he 1000% won the popular vote).
Any chance this video touches on the vote the south took of it’s people that I asked about above? There’s no way I’m watching a 47 minute video given how disappointing those 2 minutes were