InTheZone,
There is something missing from your last post? I sense you or someone dear to you has had a bad experience with IV injections.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Cycle will consist of test p/tren a/mast p probably 750/350/500mg/w. Will be dropping the tren earlier and before the show dropping the test, too and adding in winstrol in the latter half. Will pick the test back up and continue the cycle for another month after the show using test and mast.
[/quote]
I think I am going to go with
Test 150mg/day
NPP 75mg/day
Dbol 50mg/day
as far as the GH protocol its
10iu/day EOD or just 3x a week?
I went back and re-read, and am confused as to if it is one shot of 10iu or 10iu broken up throughout the day…
Also should IGF/MGF be brought into this as well?
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
InTheZone,
There is something missing from your last post? I sense you or someone dear to you has had a bad experience with IV injections.[/quote]
No not at all, I’m just having a gut feeling about this, and Cortes is a good friend, whom I wouldn’t want to run into any trouble. I’m probably just over reacting, but whatever…
At any rate, I just really don’t see the benefit to risk ratio to be all that improved, take that for what it’s worth, regarding IV to IM to subQ.
Btw, I found an interesting free study here, anyone who wants to take a look be my guest.
Certainly not the end all of reviews/studies on gh, but I found it worthwhile to read through if you have the time, and unusual in it’s content for a free deal.
Anyhow, good luck Cdog, and I hope whatever methods you choose do indeed make me eat my words, lol…
Cheers!
[quote]egnatiosj wrote:
SoontobeIFBB- I think you need to get your feet wet in competition after this, esp if it as successful as BBB is predicting. Are you planning on doing IV as well?[/quote]
lol I agree, and am planning on it. I just dont see the need to compete until I am at a higher weight, with my short stature, I am thinking that might be around low 240s. I want to create a buzz after my first comp get my name out there, and make up for lack of time.
Hey Tone, I appreciate your concern, buddy, seriously. I am not completely committed to going the IV route, but the thing that makes me feel safer about everything is that our good friend bushidobadboy will be my “doctor,” so to speak, and I will be following his instructions to a T.
I will also be doing plenty of my own research in order to reduce risk as much as possible, and if my own gut tells me to forget it and go with IM, I will certainly do so. You are a good friend and please know that I always take your advice to heart. Thanks, bud.
[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Cycle will consist of test p/tren a/mast p probably 750/350/500mg/w. Will be dropping the tren earlier and before the show dropping the test, too and adding in winstrol in the latter half. Will pick the test back up and continue the cycle for another month after the show using test and mast.
I think I am going to go with
Test 150mg/day
NPP 75mg/day
Dbol 50mg/day
as far as the GH protocol its
10iu/day EOD or just 3x a week?
I went back and re-read, and am confused as to if it is one shot of 10iu or 10iu broken up throughout the day…
Also should IGF/MGF be brought into this as well? [/quote]
I want someone to explain this to me because I have not quite been able to figure it out on my own, but I’m under the impression that exogenous GH will stimulate production of IGF-1, and that leads me to believe that it would be a bit of a waste to further add your own exogenous IGF-1.
However, I’m a BIG fan of IGF-1 on its own or with gear.
GH protocol as I understand it calls for multiple shots a day whenever possible, and to only shoot 10iu at a time when you absolutely can’t get the multiple shots in. Also I don’t think it is as simple as just running it EOD.
But basically 10iu a day on non-consecutive days (sometimes EOD, sometimes E3D, for example) using a total of 70iu over a 21 day period. This can extend to however many months you choose, just repeat the protocol for the next 21 days.
If I’m wrong on this someone please call me out.
Okay, looks like I had it basically right, but oversimplified a bit. Here’s the protocol as BBB has laid it out:
bushidobadboy said: [quote]
The adolescent pituitary releases roughly 60-100 iu in any 21 day period, with 8-15 iu released per day on non-consecutive days.
A ‘BBing analogue’ would look something like this:
Day 1: 4 x 2iu spread throughout the day.
Day 2: Nothing
Day 3: nothing
Day 4: 5 x 2iu spread
Day 5: Nothing
Day 6: 4 x 2 iu spread
Day 7: Nothing
Day 8: Nothing
Day 9: Nothing
Day 10: 6 x 2iu spread
Day 11: Nothing
Day 12: 5 x 2 iu spread
Day 13: Nothing
Day 14: 4 x 2iu
Day 15: Nothing
Day 16: Nothing
Day 17: 6 x 2 iu spread
Day 18: Nothing
Day 19: Nothing
Day 20: 5 x 2iu spread.
Day 21: nothing.
So this equals 78 iu in 3 weeks. The multiple daily injection protocol mimics the natural release, plus it should prevent the GH/IGF1 from creating insulin resistance, in those prone to it. Since insulin is part of the ‘anabolic triangle’ of AAS, GH and insulin, then becoming resistant to its effects would be a bad thing, just as it is in natural BBing.
The 2 days ‘off’ should minimise the edema experienced on GH, particularly in the feet and ankles.
But remember that to be truly effective, you need to be injecting intravenously. I have done it with no problems, but I won’t recommend it because I don’t want to be held accountable for some numbskull removing himself from the gene pool.
Even i.m. injects of GH won’t have the bioavailability or near-instant spike of i.v.
And if you want to inject subQ, don’t bother using my protocol. It’s not designed for that.
SubQ is only really good for localised fatloss cycles. Personally I have never seen the localised fatloss effects, but instead get a wonderful degree of all-body fat mobilisation and muscle anti-catabolism, but no local fat loss.
To be honest though, I only use subQ shots these days, if I am on a caloried depleted day and need a steady fatty-acid mobilistation effect and anti-catabolic effect. If I’m going to the gym for a carb-depleted, early morning session, whether that be weights or cardio, then it’s 2iu shot intramuscularly as my preference.
okay great, I dont know how I missed that lol.
BBB also mentioned the possibility of Fatty liver. I have been able to find very little info on non alcohol related fatty liver, how much of a concern is this?
Is the basis of this that the spike in GH is what causes the meso changes? Which would explain the need for IV vs IM?
While I think I could manage a couple IV shots a week, the idea of say, 13 IV shots over a week sounds a little more, intimidating.
My final question is that, I have no experience with straight HGH (used GHRP-6 at low dose though). I have read that some experience joint pain/discomfort at higher doses, Im assuming this is a possible concern using this dosing schedule as well?
Okay sorry for all the questions
Another common side is carpel tunnel syndrome. I have heard that there are wrist stretches that can be done to minimize/eliminate this problem.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
GH releases IGF1 from the liver. IGF1 mimics insulin in that is weakly activates the insulin receptor. Lerga mounts of GH (resulting in large amounts of IGF1) will have a similar effect to large amounts of insulin, in that they may downregulate the insulin receptor. This blunts insulin sensitivity in muscle. So when you eat carbs, less goes to the muscle and more is taken op by the liver. Excess glucose in the liver is conveted to fat and stored there.
Fat in the liver imparis optimal function and is a sign associated with type II diabetes.
If you get joint pain; tough. GH is obviously not for you.
BBB[/quote]
Great explanation thanks!
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
If you get joint pain; tough. GH is obviously not for you.
BBB[/quote]
fair enough
Woah! BBB is on the warpath! Impressive points all round though.
Everything you’ve said is flawless, harsh or otherwise (not that you need me to tell you that!). Unfortunately the ability to talk straight with people I care about is not something that comes easily to me, much to the detriment of those very people I profess to be looking out for.
Kudos to you, BBB.
EDIT: I have a question to ask, if I may -
I understand that this GH protocol should be used during the cycle proper (as opposed to cruising or stasis periods). So, if one is interested in using peptides to ease/aid recovery during PCT would you back GH or IGF (or other)? My answer would be IGF or perhaps even GHRP-6, but I’m interested to hear your opinion on this.
Cheers mate 
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Cortes: Trust me that 2 i.v. shots in each cubital vein in a day will leave a barely noticeable mark.
Then you have 2 days for them to fully heal, buy which time you wont’ even be able to see them any more.
Junkies inject multipl timse per day, every day and they have shit immune systems and a massive lack of proper nutrients.
BBB[/quote]
Cool. I certainly suspected that my proposed situation would be somewhat different to that of a junkie’s. Nice to have confirmation of that
Do you find you usually are able to enter the vein properly on the first try? Is it the kind of thing that takes “practice?”
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I understand that this GH protocol should be used during the cycle proper (as opposed to cruising or stasis periods). So, if one is interested in using peptides to ease/aid recovery during PCT would you back GH or IGF (or other)? My answer would be IGF or perhaps even GHRP-6, but I’m interested to hear your opinion on this.
Cheers mate ;)[/quote]
X2
I was wondering if you thought it would be better to run my GH early and finish up with my cycle, or start the AAS concurrently and continue GH into PCT.
And here’s one more chance for me to pimp IGF-1 during PCT. It’s good stuff!