12 gauge 00 buck at 15 meters: any farther away and a shotgun can’t be counted on to keep all of its pellets in the kill zone.
Damn. Having no luck posting pictures. Try again.
12 gauge 00 buck at 15 meters: any farther away and a shotgun can’t be counted on to keep all of its pellets in the kill zone.
Yup, conceding to Varq’s points a shotgun is good for CQB or home protection. In the event someone is breaking into your home and you may be firing at point blank to oh, say fifteen yards, probably the max range in a home. If in an open environment where attackers/targets may be at extended ranges a shotgun is the last thing I’d want.
As I stated before my shotgun is primarily used (other then for home protection) as a close range coyote killer for dogs that are called in at max range of thirty yards or less. What I did to determine this range was pattern my shotgun after reading what the recommended loads were when used in this capacity.
I would have preferred # 4 buckshot as this is what is heavily recommended by predator hunters who use shotguns. But, I found this extremely hard to come by in my area. I patterned 00 buck shot fifteen pellet count but found it would only be effective to maybe twelve yards. Beyond that the spread opened much to wide to ensure lethal hits on coyotes or other vermin.
I settled on Lead (not steel) BB size three inch Magnum loads which holds enough pellets in a ten inch by ten inch area to ensure a lethal hit out to thirty yards which was confirmed by patterning it at that range. This is with a twenty inch barrel and standard full choke.
With a longer say 28 inch barrel and the new Dead Coyote or Remington HD loads I have heard of guys taking coyotes out at up to fifty and some say sixty yards. This is of course with a full choke and often times specialized full choke attachment.
D
Nice AK Rooster. I do prefer the look of AKs with the wooden stock, etc. But I’ve got to imagine yours would be much more comfortable to shoot and maneuver with.
As far as crimson trace goes my dad has it on his Glock 23 and I love it. I think it makes so much sense to have it especially in a self defense situation. You could be firing accurately on target after just barely removing it from your holster.
Keep the pics going and I’ll make sure to put up mine this weekend.
that crimson trace is cool as shit, I definitely will be getting it when I do get my gun.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
barretta storm. 9mm
32rd extended mags
EoTech Holigraphic sight
Red dot laser
Flashlight[/quote]
Holy fuck that’s nice!
I don’t know why I like guns so much, seeing as they kill people. But they are just so damn cool.
This is a matter of a difference of perscpective. When your kingdom is the yard or chow hall of a max custody prison, 4 acres isn’t bad. Same with a city street for a patrol cop. Whereas most of the posters on here are soldiers, so they need the larger kindgom.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
12 gauge 00 buck at 15 meters: any farther away and a shotgun can’t be counted on to keep all of its pellets in the kill zone.
BarneyFife wrote:
There is actually an old cop saying, (or doctrine depending on the rangemaster) that sidearms are only issued so that one may fight his back to his shotgun.
Clint Smith always said, “never take a handgun to a gunfight.” In other words, if you know there’s going to be trouble, you take your rifle. And a handgun, said Clint, was for “shooting your way back to your rifle,” which you should have had in the first place.
I suppose it could apply to shotguns as well, but as I said earlier, if I’m going to carry a long gun, I’d prefer one with a bit more range. A 12-gauge shotgun may be king, as you say, but its kingdom is quite limited.
Out past about fifteen meters, the spread of the shot (“pattern”) is larger than the size of the kill zone. You can load slugs and extend your range out to 75 meters*, but still, four acres (the maximum area that can be defended with a slug-firing shotgun) is a pretty small kingdom.
By contrast, a .308 rifle has an effective range of about 800 meters, giving a man command of a nearly 500-acre domain. A .50 BMG rifle has an effective range of about a mile, allowing a man to command a territory of 1,987 acres, or just over 3 square miles.
So yes, the shotgun is the king, if we’re talking chess. And in that case, as the late great Jeff Cooper was fond of saying, the rifle is the queen.
*Yes, I know about sabot slugs, but bear in mind that they require a rifled barrel, so we’re no longer talking about a “shotgun,” but a “rifle.”
[/quote]
[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
Holy fuck that’s nice!
I don’t know why I like guns so much, seeing as they kill people. But they are just so damn cool.[/quote]
Guns don’t kill people…
Demo Dick
I want one of these one day…
[quote]Demo Dick wrote:
JohnnyBlaze wrote:
Holy fuck that’s nice!
I don’t know why I like guns so much, seeing as they kill people. But they are just so damn cool.
Guns don’t kill people…
Demo Dick
[/quote]
You’re back!
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Guns don’t kill people…
Demo Dick
You’re back![/quote]
You’re still here!
Demo Dick
[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
barretta storm. 9mm
32rd extended mags
EoTech Holigraphic sight
Red dot laser
Flashlight
Holy fuck that’s nice!
I don’t know why I like guns so much, seeing as they kill people. But they are just so damn cool.[/quote]
Do you like cars, bathtubs, and honey bees?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Emailed to me today by a friend of a friend:
[/quote]
If your friend of a friend wasn’t on a gummint evildewer watch list before, I betcha he shore is now.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Emailed to me today by a friend of a friend:
I just returned from Phoenix AZ, and went to the Cross Roads Gun Show. There is a tremendous amount of energy in the organizers of the tea parties across Arizona and I visited with one organizer from Phoenix. I had to chuckle, as his first question asked was; How are you guys doing in succeeding from the union? He then said that he hoped we got it done pretty quick, as Montana will be where he plans to move his family. I still wonder how that story got started and how it has been feeding on itself for this length of time.
Working to protect our Rights is our duty no matter where we are. There was a booth at the gun show with ATF and Homeland Security handing out some information on the federal regulations regarding the transferring of firearms. They had a big sign that said “It is illegal to buy a gun for someone else!”
I thought that the intent of this showing was to give notice to those lawful citizens that intended on a purchase of a gun to know their rights. Also I thought the notice would serve a warning to insure no weapons would end up in the hands of someone that is not able to legally purchase or own a gun. When I asked the representative for her position on me buying a weapon to give to my nephew, she replied’ “that would be in violation of the law!” So I then asked her to show me the law that specifically prohibits that type of transfer; “she could not.” I further explained that I am a member of Montana Weapons Collectors Society and that I will hopefully be distributing my collection down the road. She responded with a speech about legal age limitations on who I could distribute my collection to and the legal responsibilities I would have in doing that transfer. I then asked her to explain to me the wording in the 2nd amendment that she thought should be struck and or changed, and her reply was; “I do not know the language specifically, but I think the entire amendment should be dropped!”
I was at a loss, but thought I needed to do something, so I went to a table that was promoting the “Constitutional Party of Arizona, and purchased a pocket version of the United States Constitution” I went back to the the ATF/Homeland Security table and presented the document as a gift. I also went one step further, and I asked if the representative would like for me to highlight the Second Amendment. I told her that I would be happy to do that for her so she could continue to exercise her rights that are afforded to her in that little book.
PS My nephew is 4 years old and was with me!
[/quote]
Awesome, haha!
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
It’s cool guy, I just watched the Matrix recently and must have felt hurt by your comment. I kid, I kid, although I am sure you are going to make a quality officer from everything I’ve read that you have posted in your time here.
Take er easy!
D
not sure if that is sincere or sarcastic. and if you are referring to this thread or the boards in general.
in any case, back on topic. has anyone here been able to try out DRT ammo? looks like some pretty neat shit. especially love the video of firing point blank at steel plates and fearing no richochets
http://www.drtammo.com/technology.html
EDIT** I know i know, the vids are cheesy. but trust me o nthis one guys[/quote]
I have not shot DRT. It’s too expensive for me to train with. I have shot thousands of rounds of other frangible ammo indoors on steel plate. Its freaky to see just pile of dust beneath the plate after you are done firing.
Got a good laugh after watching this.Flashlight/Glock.Is this an old vid?
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
Got a good laugh after watching this.Flashlight/Glock.Is this an old vid?[/quote]
FMG-9 - It’s a concept gun from Magpul. The video is from the 2008 Shotshow.
not as cool as the briefcase mp5k
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
not as cool as the briefcase mp5k
- YouTube [/quote]
That was cool.“Q” would be most impressed.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
not as cool as the briefcase mp5k
[/quote]
Or old school suppressed Mac-11 in a briefcase.