[quote]“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
–John Adams [/quote]
Bizarre that you would post this.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
–John Adams
Bizarre that you would post this. [/quote]
Why is that?
Do you believe me to be an immoral, irreligious person?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
–John Adams
Bizarre that you would post this.
Why is that?
Do you believe me to be an immoral, irreligious person?[/quote]
Not immoral. Definitely irreligious, unless you believe in some religion you have never mentioned before.
Well, I’m probably no more irreligious than Adams himself.
"Adams ultimately rejected many fundamental doctrines of conventional Christianity, such as the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, becoming a Unitarian. In his youth, Adams’ father urged him to become a minister, but Adams refused, considering the practice of law to be a more noble calling.
"Adams’ view of religion overall was rather ambivalent: He recognized the abuses, large and small, that religious belief lends itself to, but he also believed that religion could be a force for good in individual lives and in society at large. His extensive reading (especially in the classics), led him to believe that this view applied not only to Christianity, but to all religions.
“Adams was aware of (and wary of) the risks, such as persecution of minorities and the temptation to wage holy wars, that an established religion poses. Nonetheless, he believed that religion, by uniting and morally guiding the people, had a role in public life.”
From: B. J. Lossing, Signers of the Declaration of Independence
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Well, I’m probably no more irreligious than Adams himself.
"Adams ultimately rejected many fundamental doctrines of conventional Christianity, such as the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, becoming a Unitarian. In his youth, Adams’ father urged him to become a minister, but Adams refused, considering the practice of law to be a more noble calling.
"Adams’ view of religion overall was rather ambivalent: He recognized the abuses, large and small, that religious belief lends itself to, but he also believed that religion could be a force for good in individual lives and in society at large. His extensive reading (especially in the classics), led him to believe that this view applied not only to Christianity, but to all religions.
“Adams was aware of (and wary of) the risks, such as persecution of minorities and the temptation to wage holy wars, that an established religion poses. Nonetheless, he believed that religion, by uniting and morally guiding the people, had a role in public life.”
From: B. J. Lossing, Signers of the Declaration of Independence[/quote]
A lot of the founding fathers had similar religious views. Many rejected established religion, though none were expressly atheist.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Well, I’m probably no more irreligious than Adams himself.
"Adams ultimately rejected many fundamental doctrines of conventional Christianity, such as the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, becoming a Unitarian. In his youth, Adams’ father urged him to become a minister, but Adams refused, considering the practice of law to be a more noble calling.
"Adams’ view of religion overall was rather ambivalent: He recognized the abuses, large and small, that religious belief lends itself to, but he also believed that religion could be a force for good in individual lives and in society at large. His extensive reading (especially in the classics), led him to believe that this view applied not only to Christianity, but to all religions.
“Adams was aware of (and wary of) the risks, such as persecution of minorities and the temptation to wage holy wars, that an established religion poses. Nonetheless, he believed that religion, by uniting and morally guiding the people, had a role in public life.”
From: B. J. Lossing, Signers of the Declaration of Independence[/quote]
This is essentially the Enlightenment view of Christianity. Of course, it’s not a philosophically robust one and relies on considerable Christian intellectual capital, as does Unitarianism, which is a Christian heresy. John Adams and his type appear to have just punted the football rather than develop a working set of beliefs of their own that everyone can read.
Anyways, I assumed you were an atheist based on our lengthy discussion on the evils of Christianity here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/do_you_belive_in_god?id=1983650&pageNo=20
and your frequent snipes at it. You never seem to show up to make similar condemnations of Islam, which is a common characteristic of the ‘Patriot’ set. This is probably due to the reasons the Bible delineates.
We can start up the discussion on Christianity again anytime you want. None of the arguments against it these days are any different than they were 300 years ago, so I don’t have to do much digging to find rebuttals.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
You better thank the mountains too, as they should get as much, if not more, credit for deterring an enemy attack.
[/quote]
Uhhh…Afghanistan…?
I heared a joke about the Swiss army once, that a general could deploy his entire army in 2 hours or something…
Typically, I forgot it
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Anyways, I assumed you were an atheist based on our lengthy discussion on the evils of Christianity here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/do_you_belive_in_god?id=1983650&pageNo=20
and your frequent snipes at it. [/quote]
Funny, what I remember about that thread was that you and I were discussing Elisha and the bears, and whether one can be a moral person without being a Christian. I’m sorry if you interpreted that as my sniping at or implying some evil in Christianity. I also recall telling you, on numerous occasions, that I am not, in fact, an atheist.[quote]
You never seem to show up to make similar condemnations of Islam, which is a common characteristic of the ‘Patriot’ set. This is probably due to the reasons the Bible delineates.[/quote]
I’m not quite sure what to make of this statement. I do consider myself a patriot, but perhaps not in the way you intended the word to mean.
In any case, I condemn nobody, whether they happen to be Christian, Jew, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Rastafarian or Muslim. I may on occasion criticize the words and actions of ignorant, irrational people, and if their ignorance and irrationality are in any way influenced by their belief system, I may have some uncomplimentary things to say about that belief system. I certainly do not approve of evil, whatever religion is practiced by the evildoer in question. I have, however, met too many really intelligent, decent Muslims to believe that Islam, in and of itself, is evil.[quote]
We can start up the discussion on Christianity again anytime you want. None of the arguments against it these days are any different than they were 300 years ago, so I don’t have to do much digging to find rebuttals.
[/quote]
Allow me to quote myself from the thread you linked, and give you what I hope to be the final word on that subject.
[i]"PRCalDude, you’ve been a worthy opponent, and I wish you the best of luck with your faith. I sincerely hope that it brings you years of satisfaction, happiness and prosperity. And if it also brings you everlasting bliss in the radiant presence of your Savior and Creator, hey, so much the better.
Now, for me at least, in the immortal words of Tyler Durden, ‘this conversation…is over.’"[/i]