[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Natural Rights are observable in nature. It doesn’t really matter from whom they came; they exist the second we are born. Whatever it is that you feel has put you on this planet, at that moment of conception you have the Natural Right to life, liberty, property, and to defend these things.[/quote]
The way I see it, you’re taking natural instincts (or something similar to it) and deciding to define them as “natural rights”. I don’t think that works, and it requires something similar to circular logic to work.
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Natural Rights pretty much exist as testament to the instincts instilled within us at conception. While we don’t immediately have the ability to act on such instincts, the potential is there.
Tell me, how many small animals and play pals did you murder before you learned that taking one’s life is wrong? You couldn’t understand on any significant level anything your parents told you before you were about 2 or 3. How many things did you kill prior to that? Surely, you had the chance to repeatedly rain blows with a blunt object down upon the skull of one of your friends. Children are curious. Weren’t you curious to examine the inside of a friend’s skull at one point? What about any pets? Did your parents have to get rid of them all so you wouldn’t snap the family cat’s neck?
What about enslavement? Did you naturally look forward to your times behind bars (your crib)? Did you automatically think it was normal to be locked in a room for hours at a time, or did someone have to explain that one to you at a later age? Did you really only learn to appreciate liberty AFTER you were old enough to speak and comprehend the messages that adults provided you?
What about property? When you had a toy in your hands and someone took it from you, did you acquiesce without protest until the day you were old enough to understand the basics about liberty?
And when you learned all these lessons later in life, did you appreciate them PURELY AND SINGULARLY in terms of your ability to stay out of trouble, or did you understand some basic truths about these lessons, namely that your life is better not only if others respect your rights to life, liberty, and property, but if you also do the same to others?
People who don’t make this sort of connection, that society ALWAYS suffers when these rights are disregarded, are either sociopaths, have never lived amongst other people, or are so ignorant as to be incapable of understanding any of the points I have made.
It’s a simple concept. When I hold a ball in my hand and then let it go, it falls down. Every. Single. Time. When I am in a zero-gravity situation, when I hold a ball in my hand and then let it go, it does NOT fall straight to the ground. It floats around. Every. Single. Time.
People have been observing the same phenomenon in people, in our nature. When people’s lives are subjected to the arbitrary whims of others, society ALWAYS suffers. Every. Single. Time. The same exact thing can be said about the arbitrary taking of liberty and property. Things become even worse when there is no legal ability to defend these things, such as when I am met with deadly force and repel it with deadly force, and am subsequently arrested for murder while my attacker never would have been had he succeeded.
I think you should do a little reading up on the topic before you start hammering on me about it. I would start with “De Legibus” by Cicero, followed by “De Republica”, also by Cicero. From there, I would proceed directly to “Two Treatises of Government” by John Locke, followed by an excellent contemporary analysis of the issue called “Natural Right and History” by Leo Strauss.
I challenge you to read those books thoroughly and then come back in here and make the same vapid argument you’ve been making.
