I do. Not because of ineptness on their part, but because of their lack of novelty. Jeb and Kasich are boring, and Rubio seems like a smarmy frat boy. No one can really get behind them with any zeal. I really do believe that above anything else, the Dems knew that they could get a huge amount of enthusiasm off of being the party of firsts. First to put a black man into the oval office and first to put a woman into the oval office. That is something cohesive and exciting which will get people fired up for the duration of the race.
People want something to get behind and be excited about, whether its Trumps crazy train or Hillary being the first woman in the office.
Iāve actually heard that Hillary is having issues getting people excited. Hard to gauge, and weāll only know when voters turn outā¦ but Iāve heard it is a concern for her.
I know a lot of people who will end up voting for Hillary soley based on the fact that they donāt like Trump. They say they wouldāve voted for Kasich or Rubio. Extrapolate that to the entire nation and BINGO! scienctific poll right there.
I have a few friends who are very happily in the #imwithher camp.
A quote from a friend of mine on FB, āI support Hillary and I know she will do a good job as president. Many are predisposed to disagree with me but I am personally excited about her candidacy and her presidency!ā
Then she went on to put up a Mother Jones link about how Hilary is one of Americaās Most Honest Politicians. I didnāt get involved in this conversation at all, was just observing the back and forth.
Do people like this just not know about the pay for play emails? Do they think that Clinton Cash is all a right wing hatchet job? Because the book/ documentary have been fact checked. Regarding the Clinton Foundation stuff, while they donāt always connect the dots like the documentary/ book, even sources like NYT, Washington Post, Time_ have substantiated most of it as fact. Itās pretty unethical stuff. I donāt know how anyone can overlook it.
I donāt plan to debate, or even argue the point but I seriously am trying to understand the thinking. Do they have a feel good vibe about voting for their team? I donāt get the sense that this is a ātheyāre all corrupt so the lesser of two evilsā or, āhold your noseā, type of thing. I just canāt understand it.
I suspect this - We see what we want to see. We decide that our team is the āGood Oneā and then we look for facts to back that up, and ignore or disregard anything that doesnāt support our preconceived ideas.
āPeople think that they think like scientists. But really they think like lawyers. Scientists donāt care what the answer is: they look at the data and draw a conclusion. Lawyers know the conclusion they want to reach, then they harness a bunch of facts to support that conclusion.ā - Peter Ditto
[quote=āanon71262119, post:146, topic:221940ā]
ā¦I suspect this - We see what we want to see. We decide that our team is the āGood Oneā and then we look for facts to back that up, and ignore or disregard anything that doesnāt support our preconceived ideas.
ā¦[/quote]
This is the answer right here, Puff.
Everything you said could be said about Trump (by just inserting his issues); and the āotherā side is often just as perplexed about why someone would vote for Trump.
Donāt read me wrongā¦Iāve been a strong supporter of the Presidentā¦not either one of these candidates, the Left or of Liberals. This has led to many of my friends (and oftentimes those on PWI) to make certain assumptions that just are not true. In fact, in my work environment, I am considered much more conservative than I often am on PWI. (I am sure a lot of that comes from my defense of the President).
Believe meā¦whomever becomes President this time will not get the same support and defense of their decisions from meā¦not even close.
Someone said something that I thought was interesting on āCharlie Roseā last night.
They essentially said that the lines have been drawnā¦and that the election has now turned into one that is all about turnout and whose core supporters will actually get out and vote in November.
To me; that is what makes this election so unpredictable.
I also agree that probably in any other year with any other opposing candidate, Clinton would most likely lose with all of her negativesā¦and she actually still could loseā¦and mainly because of the strong āat this point, I donāt give a shitā passions of the Trump supporters I have met.
Donāt blame the GOP, blame the primary voters (unless thatās what you meant). They have made this giant shit taco and are forcing the rest of the party to eat it.
Jeb may have been the only other serious Republican candidate to have a tough time beating Hillary.
This is the one of many ironies of the Election of 2016.
Out of the original 17 or soā¦the one that actually won (love him or hate himā¦Trump won this electionā¦because the GOP tried everything in their power to not elect him)ā¦Trump (along with Jeb) is perhaps ātheā one that was going to have a struggle with Clinton.
(It really makes you wonder what Romney must be thinking right now!)
My opinion is that there is more than enough evidence to formally charge her with a number of crimes.
Getting a BJ from an adult and RAPE are not in the same universe. Thatās an enormous stretch. Like a size small pair of yoga pants straining to cover Rosie OāDonnelās ass level stretch.
As you elude to, itās hard to say who won the debate because you have to define what winning means. Ultimately, whoever wins the election won the debate, because thatās the only metric that matters.
Iām a Trump supporter, but agree that Hillary looked stronger in the debate. But that doesnāt really change my vote.
Also, I think you have to consider how this debate leads into the next two debates. Trump has a history of lowering expectations for himself and then exceeding those lowered expectations.
True. This might be my limited interaction with anyone who is a loud and proud Trump lover. I havenāt been around any Trump supporters who seem to have convinced themselves that heās Mother Theresa. They seem to be more of the gleefully naughty, satisfaction in tipping over he pyramid of cans at Piggly Wiggly, and giving the other side the finger type of thing.
MOST people I talk to are cringing this time, and telling themselves theyāll vote for whichever candidate āā¦because of the Supreme Courtā or similar rationale. As in, I concede that these two people are deplorables, BUTā¦ Iām gonna vote for one of them anyway.
Iām with you. Itās interesting. My area is almost completely devoid of bumper stickers this year. I rarely see one for either candidate. No yard signs either, once the primaries were over. I HOPE itās because people on both sides are embarrassed. Thatās seeing it from a glass half full, āweāre better than thisā position. I canāt bear to think that weāve reached a point where we really donāt care about integrity anymore.
Wrong. Get your facts straight. This stuff can be found in a 2 minute google search. He WAS impeached, and it was NOT for sexual misconduct:
āThe Impeachment of Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, was initiated by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998ā
āClinton was acquitted, becoming the second sitting United States President to be formally charged with a crime (impeached) and subsequently declared not guilty (acquitted).ā
To me, this captures half of the feeling of a lot of Trump supporters. The other half is captured in understanding why so many Trump supporters have embraced the ābasket of deplorablesā label.
If you believe in traditional marriage, youāre a homophobe.
If you donāt support abortion, youāre a misogynist.
If you donāt think we need affirmative action, youāre a racist, sexist, or both.
If you support strong borders, youāre an islamophobe.
If you support law and order, youāre a racist.
If you support gun rights, youāre an ignorant hick.
If you donāt think we need to spend huge amounts of money fighting other peopleās wars and paying foreign welfare, then youāre a heartless bastard.
People are tired of the response to their positions being name-calling. So when the media calls Trump an arrogant, ignorant, racist, misogynist, islamophobic, homophobic, greedy, fat fraud, people (and particularly white, heterosexual men) can relate to that. And they assume that it isnāt true, because theyāve been called names too and donāt believe its true about them.
For my part, I donāt think Trump is half as bad as heās made out to be. Heās not my ideal candidate. But the times Iāve been most hesitant about supporting him is when he walked back common sense positions under political pressure.