I think this deserves more attention in the man vs woman tone of this thread.
To paint with a very broad brush, women marry a man expecting he will change, men marry a women expecting she won’t.
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I heard this over 20 years ago and it still holds true.
I’m actually seeing it with a couple we’re friends with right now. I don’t think they’re going to make it.
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The person initiating the no-fault divorce should end up with “ no children” ? Are you saying no custody and no visitation?
And the other side of the coin is that if the person is found to be at fault for the divorce, does that mean THEY end up with all of those consequences?
And just so we are on the same page, No Fault divorce is a legal classification where “fault” doesn’t have to be proven to the court to dissolve the marriage, and be done so by one party. It doesnt mean no one is “at fault”, its just that the court doesnt factor that in to the ability of one party to dissolve the marriage.
In my moms case my dad started out as a charming, productive guy who happened to drink, but turned into miserable abusive alcoholic who couldnt hold down a regular job and spent most of his time drunk and yelling at everyone. Going to stay the weekend at a hotel or grandparents house was not a foreign concept for me as a kid because my dad would go on 3 day drinking bender tirades… Something he didnt do at the start of the marriage but did later on.
While a bit extreme, My dads case is not unique, I avoid the stuff like the plague because of what Ive seen it do to people in my life
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It sounds very familiar.
According to my dads old friends he was a good time guy- friendly, drinky, but smart and made good money and had some good connections.
By the time I was 6, or about 13 years into their marriage, my mother left, basically running for her life. Prior to that, it was really bad. Truly unspeakable. After- just as bad, then much worse, for both of them.
By creating a genuine presence they fold into, and break against when out of line. But not in the MTV way.
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The practical problem with removing no-fault divorce is that the fault would needed to be shown in court. Often that would be pretty difficult, specially if other part does everything he/she can to prevent the process.
Other way would be to define the fault so loosely that it would be easy to achieve, but that removes the whole point of having fault -based divorces.
I don’t know in US, but in here two things lowers divorce rates significantly: economic status and education.
Higher incomes and higher education lowers the divorce rate quite a bit. It’s interesting why that is. Ability to reflect and have conversations with you partner is a huge factor at least.
Sadly these two factors also lower the birth rates. Hahah.
I’ve read and heard this over and over again. All fault for legal transgressions need to be proven, and it is several legal transgressions are not easy to prove either, far from it considering the sort of professionals and lengthy trials needed to do so.
Various serious social pathologies worked their way from poor minority and white communities to the white middle class because of no-fault divorce. So far we have been talking solely about married individuals, not the devastation welfare and no-fault divorce had on communities and children.
The person with no fault would wind up with 100% custody of the children. And considering actual faults like abandonment, neglect, and abuse, I think the other way around would fit too. I am not so sure if I would think that’s appropriate for something like purposely witholding sex, which is grounds for divorce.
Yes, I know. If there is no fault, the person committed no legal transgression. So the person should not be liable for or lose anything.
I understand, and I am truly sorry you had to go through that. I am not looking for sympathy from others, but I truly believe had there been no divorce at the fault of my dad, my brother would have not turned to criminality and drug use. Perhaps he would have been inclined to some manageable amount of vice, but not the sort he was. He turned out OK in the end. In the past few years went back to school and made a career change from liquor distributor in Las Vegas (not something one inclined to vice should do for long, perhaps, as that almost lead to disaster again despite the very-good money) to nursing.
For some people, mental illness, vice, ability to cope, and laziness grow worse as they get older, even if they “have it all” (wife, kids, home, job or business). I think my dad might have appeared to be intact or not that bad when he met my mother and her family. He was actually friendly and not a mean person, so they probably thought everything would work out. So this, like your case, was one in which no one could have known how bad things would go.
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True. But it’s an interesting guestion from philosophy of law standpoint.
Usually laws are interpreted to favor the weaker part, how the weaker part should be favored in these cases? And how the weaker part is defined?
Poor law writing and legal praxis will lead to very unjust situations. As we know from several examples.
I don’t know what this has to do with this matter? Legal transgressions need to be proven. Otherwise people could get punished simply from people lying about them.
Because there are often borderline cases where it’s not always easy to define if the transgression has happened and if the proof if is sufficient.
Laws have to be clearly defined and the wrongdoings have to be proven. According to this, people can be punished with no due process.
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Sure. But I think suitable cause for divorce is not an easy subject to define nor prove.
That’s not what that means, it means the affected party doesn’t have to prove it to the courts standards in Order to get divorced.
Outside of physical assault very few things that might lead to a divorce leave nice, tidy evidence to present to a judge, especially before cell phone cameras became popular
In my mother’s case she was absolutely being abused. As were all of us. The legal transgression occurred
Was my mother expected to hide tape recorders all around the house to record the events so she could prove it ? (this happened before the advent of cell phones, although it applies now as well)
I would say the answer is no.
So my dad was certainly at fault but still ended up with a “no fault divorce”
In your scenario he would lose custody and visitation of the kids if a proven fault was established with the courts, yes?
My dad has since gone sober and most of us still have a working relationship with him now… him losing complete custody and visitation could have lead to a “death of despair” (suicide) mentioned elsewhere on the trump thread I think.
None of that sounds like what I would want my mom or dad to have had to go through back then
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I’ve absorbed your post and taken it into consideration. I apologize for being ignorant to such situations while I was posting. So I am sorry.
This is actually what I was after too. I just approached with too theoretical touch.
And that stops men from getting raped in divorce court?
These unquantifiable woo woo words with no meaningful definition is the way?
You don’t see it as unreasonable that men have to conform to these moving goalposts and women do not?
Speaking of goalposts:
What can I do to make it fun for my daughter when I watch football games?
Become a Chiefs fan.
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Haha!