I would like to open this for a topic of discussion. Perhaps if some of you have experience on this and could help the rest of us out. Here it is in a nutshell. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
-Low testosterone->supplement with exogenous testosterone
-Increased testosterone->aromatase to estradiol
-Elevated estradiol->you feel like crap
-Supplement anastrozole->prevents aromatase
-prevented aromatase->lower estradiol AND DHT
So how the hell do we raise DHT levels and keep that healthy libido without raising E2?
I know this is a single source and in my job field more is preferable, but is this a viable option and/or replacement for anastrozole? It states that proviron…
“has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldnt even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing its dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking.”
Now, we aren’t using steroids but a lot of the same rules apply to us. Does anyone have any experience/thoughts/questions/opinions/gripes/concerns on the subject?
Edit: Copy and paste the quote into google and you’ll find it.
It’s an interesting concept that I have thought about. I just got my latest results and my Test is 860, E2 is 22, FT is just above top of the range, however my DHT is 31 on a scale where 30 is bottom of the range. My libido is kind of hit and miss so I would like to get my DHT up to see if that helps.
I see my doctor Monday and she previously mentioned raising my test dose higher however my bacne was holding me back from raising my levels even more, not to mention by the numbers my test and E2 appear excellent. Aside from the spotty libido and sometimes suddenly vanishing interest during sex I feel pretty good so I was a bit reluctant to mess with my test dose.
I’m going to try some new things to combat the acne and I am more receptive to raising my test dose this time as now i know my DHT is pretty low, though I’m skeptical on how much my DHT will go up compared to T and FT and I’m worried about the increased sides. Proviron does interest me a lot to help with my libido but I’d like to stay legal if at all possible.
BTW my protocol is 120mg Test Cyp a week (split into 2 doses), 375iu hCG 2 times a week, and 1.5 mg arimidex a week split into 2 doses. So I am taking a bit more arimidex than most.
My last blood test came in at 575 TT, 198 FT, with an E2 less than 20. I was taking the standard .5mg adex to 100mg test cyp. Apparently I’m a lucky over-responder. I don’t feel the sides of having suboptimal E2 so I’m going to experiment with less adex. The reason I started asking the question on proviron is because I’ve read that adex doesn’t differentiate between DHT and E2 which are both aromatased from T. My libido has plumitted recently as has my DHT level. That was one of my favorite “side effects” of beginning TRT after having no libido at all and not even knowing about it (had a pit. tumor).
It seems like this is probably too good to be true. Keep high T. Prevent excess E2. Keep that high DHT.
I’m sure KSman will weigh in whenever he gets back on the grid.
Bump for more comments on this thread. My libido was pretty much zero for years. After finally starting TRT, it came back in force. I felt like I was 21 again and chased my wife around like I did back then. It felt absolutely fantastic.
My endo started me with no AI. I had pretty bad E2 levels and sides to go along with it. I started adex and got E2 down to 15. Performance suffered first. Now libido is almost gone.
i’ve since backed off T a bit and cut Adex doee in half. Still no libio. Just ordered some testing and expect T to be at least in the 700s and E2 to be in 20s. I added DHT this time, which should be interesting.
AndroHard was supposed to raise DHT, but the maker was raided and is no longer in business. it was Super-R-DHEA (3a-enanthoxy-5a-androstan-17-one). Not sure if anyone else is packaging this.
Since I opened this post I found a DHT gel called Andractim. If I named the source it would probably get removed but we all know how to navigate google. It’s pretty expensive too.
This is great and all, but adding compound after compound doesn’t seem like such a good idea to me. Seems like an eventual end state of being hooked up to an IV that constantly delivers the correct amount of each individual hormone into the body.
Yeah I know what you mean Kanyon. I may have to mix some t gel back in with my shots as my DHT was over double the top of the range when I was on T gel so I know it converts great to DHT for me. The problems with the gel were not getting my t high enough, excessive E2, and transference risk with my daughter and girlfriend. I’m still trying to get my T3 dose dialed in so maybe getting my my thyroid to a better level will help with libido. It could be lack of dopamine as well. It could be I need to switch to aromasin. There are so many factors with libido it’s just tough to pin down what will help and what won’t. In the end if doing it with prescribed meds doesn’t work out I will try proviron and see if that works.
You just described my situation from a couple of months ago. I was doing fairly well on the gel but T wasn’t getting high enough and E2 was outrageous. So even though the libido was there I still wasn’t feeling “good”.
I suppose switching back to gel, except this time WITH adex is an option. I was the first person my GP prescribed adex to for elevated E2 so I would hate to go back to him and ask to try something else.
I emailed a really good endo I saw back in my active duty days to get his take on the subject of DHT. I’ll post his response. Until then, good luck to all.
Edit: His hospital has a policy that prevents him from being able to communicate with patients via email. He did say a few things concerning DHEA and it not being very important for men, but said nothing with regards to DHT.
Not for me. For general knowledge. Trying to figure out how to maintain higher levels of DHT in order to keep a healthy libido. I’ve been traveling and haven’t gotten to do much research on the topic. I haven’t found a success story of someone who has used proviron in leu of anastrozole. Now that you’re back maybe you could shed some light on it.
How exactly does one keep DHT levels up without elevating E2? I’ve found viable options with using proviron, or possibly supplementing with andractim DHT cream, but like I said above, you’re just adding more and more things to take/apply/inject, etc.
I know I can’t be the only one who switched from gel (which causes more aromatase to DHT), from injections and noticed a decrease in libido. Only to have DHT checked and see it decreased pretty significantly.
I have considered this option as well. However, this brings us back to the negative aspects of the gel/cream, which is why many switch in the first place. Injections are without a doubt the most convenient. Some just get the side-effect of less DHT.
I have the opposite problem at the moment And think my dht has always been high since I’ve been on the gel for 12 years. Just learning that shots will hopefully do better. So, why is it that I’m worried an AI might increase my DHT while everyone thinks the opposite? T converts to E and DHT. T aromatizes to E… We use an AI to prevent some of that. DHT isn’t formed from aromanization, it is formed via 5-Alpha reductase. An AI may stop some T from converting to E, in theory freeing up some extra T to convert to DHT. If you have leeway, take more T and control your E with the AI. I’m in no way an expert, but in all the research I have done, it seems if u take measures to lower one (DHT or E2) you run the risk of the other going up.
When I was on the cream I applied a small amount to my scrotum daily (cream not gel) and my DHT shot up over the top end of the range. I have read of some guys that use both cream and injections. Cream just at a small dose applied to scrotum to boost DHT.
[quote]WNYdave wrote:
I have the opposite problem at the moment And think my dht has always been high since I’ve been on the gel for 12 years. Just learning that shots will hopefully do better. So, why is it that I’m worried an AI might increase my DHT while everyone thinks the opposite? T converts to E and DHT. T aromatizes to E… We use an AI to prevent some of that. DHT isn’t formed from aromanization, it is formed via 5-Alpha reductase. An AI may stop some T from converting to E, in theory freeing up some extra T to convert to DHT. If you have leeway, take more T and control your E with the AI. I’m in no way an expert, but in all the research I have done, it seems if u take measures to lower one (DHT or E2) you run the risk of the other going up. [/quote]
Your line of thinking is correct, the OP and subsequent posts were not. An AI will not prevent T from converting to DHT since, as you noted, that conversion happens by A5R. Silly thread.
If you wish to decrease the aromatic action (can’t completely stop it) use the gel not the cream. The aromatization occurs in the fatty tissue and over time the cream collects in the fatty tissue for the depo effect. The gel tends to get thru these fatty tissues without collecting over time so less aromatization. Creams are great for lean fellows and I recommend applying on the inner forearm and rub forearm to forearm. Not to any fatty tissue area.
The DHT cream you are talking about I believe is from Europe and you have to send in a prescription with your order. I am a compounding pharmacist and use to make a pure DHT Cr in an HRT base. DHT powder can not be found anywhere in this country anymore. Unbelievable! No aromatization and the Grand Daddy of the Ts. Thanks FDA!
FWIW
I tried Proviron from a very reputable UGL (well, as reputable as a UGL can be).
Was using 100mg cyp and .5 Adex a week at the time.
I was looking to raise DHT and libido, and proviron made me feel like absolute crap.
Tired, dead libido, felt just like shit warmed over. I even spoke to the source,
he said he had nothing but great reviews on it, he even offered my money back.
I switched to Aromasin from Adex and it made a huge difference.
Later switched from Cyp to Prop and TRT works like it should for me now.
I was thinking the other day to take an AI in order to increase my DHT. Makes sense, if you block the conversion of testosterone into E2, then theoretically testosterone will convert more into DHT. I asked the question on the forum 3 days ago, and nobody had an answer
@young_forever
That was posted 6 years ago so you may not get a reply. I believe creams raise DHT considerably higher than injections. Maybe something to look into