[quote]hedo wrote:
Lot’s of hate and lot’s of anger. [/quote]
I, for one, hate people who can’t spell “lots” properly. They make me real angry!
Now seriously…
[quote]hedo wrote:
Perhaps a no flames policy or guideline would bring back some of the commraderie we all enjoyed. Maybe some self restraint or self respect.[/quote]
Unless you’re advocating censorship, the only way you’d achieve that would be by completely closing the site. As the site becomes more and more popular and more and more accessible, the quality will inevitably go down.
How many sites with forums do you know that have been able to maintain a consistent quality level?
Better yet – how many PEOPLE you guess there are in the US that can sustain a respectful, restrained, intelligent, innovative conversation about just about anything they actually give damn about?
[quote]hedo wrote:
All those people who say they don’t post anymore or you just don’t hear from were potential customers.[/quote]
I sincerely doubt that – probably they just tuned out the forum. I know at least 10 people that come here regularly a buy stuff but never even looked at this specific forum.
Lot’s of sites have a no flame policy. It’s not censorship it’s civility. A guideline for posting is about style not censorship.
Example 1: I disagree with your point!
Example 2: I disagree with your point and your an idiot for having it.
Same message with the exception that the second is being made to pick a fight. Many seem to only pick fights and have very little to say besides insults.
I would agree that many don’t visit the political forums. Bad behavior isn’t limited to the political forum however.
I’ve referred many folks to this site. Many have become good customers at my urging. Others have lost interest because of the reasons I’ve stated. It’s about the numbers. Turn away customers and business drops. I’d also disagree that quality has to drop when something grows. I read an interesting article here regarding Biotest and Walmart. I am sure they intend to keep the quality up when they sell Fahrenhiet to them. Same thing with the site.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Wow, you’re not bright. My “clarification” was sarcasm that everyone else seemed to understand except for two people, you being one of them.[/quote]
I’m just going by what you said.
And your still with the thinktard defense, huh? Whatever gets you through the day, I guess.
I would - but I have no idea what thread it was in, and I really don’t have the time to search for the exact quote for someone that will just change it around to say that they were being sarcastic.
Maybe you can look or it. It was in whatever thread it was the the whole reneck dicussion took place.
Your a big boy - I’m sure you can find it
[quote]And, have you noticed that “thinktard” isn’t catching on?
[/quote]
Am I supposed to care? Oh…wait a minute…I do care. I’m crushed. I’ll never use it again.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Wow, you’re not bright. My “clarification” was sarcasm that everyone else seemed to understand except for two people, you being one of them.
I’m just going by what you said.
And your still with the thinktard defense, huh? Whatever gets you through the day, I guess.
Also, can you please post where I said that “rednecks should be exterminated”?
I would - but I have no idea what thread it was in, and I really don’t have the time to search for the exact quote for someone that will just change it around to say that they were being sarcastic.
Maybe you can look or it. It was in whatever thread it was the the whole reneck dicussion took place.
Your a big boy - I’m sure you can find it
And, have you noticed that “thinktard” isn’t catching on?
Am I supposed to care? Oh…wait a minute…I do care. I’m crushed. I’ll never use it again.
[/quote]
That was, honest-to-God, the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.
You falsely accuse someone of saying something, then, when called on your lie, you tell THEM to find the evidence.
What are you, retarded?
Post where I said “rednecks should be exterminated.”
Nice to see you can actually participate in a conversation rationally… at least for short periods of time.[/quote]
With smart ass remarks like that - you actually wonder why I attack you? You wonder why people call you an elitist? It makes pretty much anything else you have to say nothing but ammo to fire back at you.
I can be civil. But not when you start your posts out like that. Wanna have a civil discussion? Leave you bullshit digs at the door, and I will do the same. But I will attack when attacked.
I know you will pass this off out of hand, but I just thought I would let you know.
But what you don’t realize is that you are as guilty as anyone of trying to silence those that take issue with what you say. If it is an acceptable practice for you to engage in - why is it not acceptable for the rest of the posters?
You know, for someone that has a phobia of being in a corner - you sure are drawn to them. You said in a previous post that you think peoples right to free speech are being stepped on down here because of the tone. How am I painting you into anything?
That is your opinion. The President has the Bully pulpit. It has been a perk of the office since Washington took office. To say that it is being abused is laughable. The left is just as guilty of the right in the rhetoric.
You see lines and corners everywhere, don’t you? The first amendment is not being taken from anyone just because someone else exercises their’s a little louder.
But they chose to leave. No one forced them to leave. You know that. I can’t believe this is part of your argument. They are only silenced because they chose to be silenced. To sit down and be quiet until every one has had a chance to speak does not work down here.
But did anyone silence you? Drive you away? Take your rights? Nope - you stuck around. People that are too weak to stick it out made a choice when they were at the same juncture you found yourself at. It was their decision - not a matter of anyone silencing them.
That would never happen. But if it did - the forum would die within days. Conflict, debate, or fighting - call it what you want - is what fuels this place. Common sense should tell even the most extreme opponent of conflict can see this.
[quote]If the left, or the right, it works both ways, are driven from communities of discussion, then all you have is a bunch of like minded people patting themselves on the back. I suppose that is great, but it doesn’t lead to anything useful, which all our back and forth argumentation actually does.
Perhaps nobody else cares about these things. [/quote]
You are acting like Henny Penny - what you fear will never come to pass. Care all you want. But as long as T-Nation has a political forum - there will be screaming and gnashing of teeth. On both sides.
Answering as one of the names you don’t mention - you are wrong. I brow beat those without an argument. I brow beat those that have no support for their positions. And I brow beat those that are void of any discernable purpose other than to insult me, or my beliefs.
I am sorry - but I don’t form my world views based on interactions on an internet forum. There is such a thing as real life. Because I choose not to be a mindless bowl of mush when I am on here does not make me a bad person. There is nothing new ever presented here. It is all a regurgitation of what someone has read or heard. If you are too lazy to perform a little due diligence before you get on here - don’t label the others. I know exactly why I am here.
You start as many fights on here with your corrosive speech as anyone.
I will refer back to the first part of my response. You are treated the exact way you treat others on here. If you start out with insults that is how it will be returned to you.
I don’t have a problem with that - why do you? It is because of your own doing. Believe it or not - your own hatred is the reason people are mean to you.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
That was, honest-to-God, the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.[/quote]
I take it that you don’t read your own posts, then? You could win prizes for the idiocy that flows off your keyboard
[quote]You falsely accuse someone of saying something, then, when called on your lie, you tell THEM to find the evidence.
What are you, retarded?[/quote]
Wanna take bets on who owns a hockey helmet and who doesn’t?
[quote]Post where I said “rednecks should be exterminated.”
Otherwise, you’re a liar.
[/quote]
You find rednecks contemptuous, and you also say that they should be mocked out of existence. That’s in one thread - I think you own words more than support what I said about you.
Lot’s of sites have a no flame policy. It’s not censorship it’s civility. A guideline for posting is about style not censorship.
Example 1: I disagree with your point!
Example 2: I disagree with your point and your an idiot for having it.
Same message with the exception that the second is being made to pick a fight. Many seem to only pick fights and have very little to say besides insults.
I would agree that many don’t visit the political forums. Bad behavior isn’t limited to the political forum however.
I’ve referred many folks to this site. Many have become good customers at my urging. Others have lost interest because of the reasons I’ve stated. It’s about the numbers. Turn away customers and business drops. I’d also disagree that quality has to drop when something grows. I read an interesting article here regarding Biotest and Walmart. I am sure they intend to keep the quality up when they sell Fahrenhiet to them. Same thing with the site.[/quote]
Hey… if everything else here is hardcore…the politics should be too. It better than other forums that are hypersensitive anytime people get pissed.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
harris447 wrote:
That was, honest-to-God, the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.
I take it that you don’t read your own posts, then? You could win prizes for the idiocy that flows off your keyboard
You falsely accuse someone of saying something, then, when called on your lie, you tell THEM to find the evidence.
What are you, retarded?
Wanna take bets on who owns a hockey helmet and who doesn’t?
Post where I said “rednecks should be exterminated.”
Otherwise, you’re a liar.
You find rednecks contemptuous, and you also say that they should be mocked out of existence. That’s in one thread - I think you own words more than support what I said about you.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Now, please explain how “mocking” equals “exterminating”.
You’re a liar.
[/quote]
Maybe you should elaborate on what “out of existence” means.
That seems to indicate that you don’t want them around anymore.
Hardly a liar - unless you define liar as someone who takes you at your word. If you don’t want me jumping to my own conclusions - then clarify.
But the best you have is “you’re a liar”? You must be tired. Get some rest - think about it - and then try and come back with something better than that.
Maybe you should elaborate on what “out of existence” means.
That seems to indicate that you don’t want them around anymore.
Hardly a liar - unless you define liar as someone who takes you at your word. If you don’t want me jumping to my own conclusions - then clarify.
But the best you have is “you’re a liar”? You must be tired. Get some rest - think about it - and then try and come back with something better than that.
[/quote]
the difference between “mocking out of existence” and “exterminating” hardly needs to be parsed, but just to make you happy, here goes: The mullet haircut has been mocked out of existence. Utterly non-violent. (Unlike, say, rednecks turning fire-hoses on women and children for wanting to vote or something ridiculous like that.)
Or, Bush’s Social Security plan. No violence, just a steady stream of giggles until it has gone away.
Mocking, you see, leads the mocked to realize that they have been doing wrong and should change their ways.
So, yes: I don’t want the Confederate flag around anymore. I’d like rednecks to become educated members of society, take a shower once a week even if they don’t need it.
Harris, I’ve been telling him to work on his reading comprehension for years now.
Good luck expecting him to ever interpret anything you say like any reasonable person would, if there is a way to interpret it so that there is an excuse to fight… bingo!
[quote]vroom wrote:
Harris, I’ve been telling him to work on his reading comprehension for years now.
Good luck expecting him to ever interpret anything you say like any reasonable person would, if there is a way to interpret it so that there is an excuse to fight… bingo![/quote]
I know, i know…
I just wanted to see if he would go off on another one of his crazy-ass “redneck is a race” jeremiads.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
I just wanted to see if he would go off on another one of his crazy-ass “redneck is a race” jeremiads.[/quote]
You just can’t walk away can you?
Quote me saying that a “redneck is a race”. Either that - or admit YOU are the liar.
Now pay attention here - harryass. You don’t have the option of pussing out, or changing the subject, 'kay?
I’ll wait patiently for you to come up with the quote. I’m sure you’ll get on it first thing - that is if you and vroom can quit fondling each other long enough to respond.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Lot’s of sites have a no flame policy.
[/quote]
Did you spell “lots” wrong again just to annoy me? C’mon now, admit it…
[quote]hedo wrote:
It’s not censorship it’s civility. A guideline for posting is about style not censorship.[/quote]
Yeah, right. And who makes the call? Do you really think the mods should become judge, jury and executioners?
Trust me, I’ve being in electronic communities for almost 30 years – since the times of the 300 bps modems (actually there were only acoustic couplers at the time, which technically are not called modems) and BBSs (Bulletin Board Services) – and moderation just becomes a nightmare after a while. First, it costs a boatload of man-hours, so lots of people are hired and a lot of money is lost. Then, after a while, the site becomes a reflection of the moderators, rather than a reflection of the users, people lose interest and abandon it – and the site is closed and people are laid off.
[quote]hedo wrote:
I would agree that many don’t visit the political forums. Bad behavior isn’t limited to the political forum however.[/quote]
Not at all. Actually, trolls tend to prefer other forums.
[quote]hedo wrote:
I’ve referred many folks to this site. Many have become good customers at my urging. Others have lost interest because of the reasons I’ve stated. It’s about the numbers.[/quote]
I sincerely doubt they left just because of the forums. They probably just gave that out as an excuse. In fact, I’m willing to bet if the forums were closed to public posting the sales would go down. And if more mods were hired to enforce a no-flames policy, the sales would not go up proportionally.
[quote]hedo wrote:
I read an interesting article here regarding Biotest and Walmart. I am sure they intend to keep the quality up when they sell Fahrenhiet to them. Same thing with the site.[/quote]
I’m failing to see the parallel. Biotest is selling a product they designed to the masses. A valid comparison would be if the masses actually told Biotest what to put in the product.
Or, to use the parallel correctly but in reverse – the quality of the articles posted on this site hasn’t gone down, quite the contrary…
Lot’s of sites have a no flame policy. It’s not censorship it’s civility. A guideline for posting is about style not censorship.
Example 1: I disagree with your point!
Example 2: I disagree with your point and your an idiot for having it.
Same message with the exception that the second is being made to pick a fight. Many seem to only pick fights and have very little to say besides insults.
I would agree that many don’t visit the political forums. Bad behavior isn’t limited to the political forum however.
I’ve referred many folks to this site. Many have become good customers at my urging. Others have lost interest because of the reasons I’ve stated. It’s about the numbers. Turn away customers and business drops. I’d also disagree that quality has to drop when something grows. I read an interesting article here regarding Biotest and Walmart. I am sure they intend to keep the quality up when they sell Fahrenhiet to them. Same thing with the site.
Hey… if everything else here is hardcore…the politics should be too. It better than other forums that are hypersensitive anytime people get pissed.[/quote]
Irish
I would actually hold you up as an example of someone who fights tooth and nail over issues but who rarely if ever attacks the opposition on a personal level.
Of course I take the opposite view most of the time but my guess is people read more of what you say because of that. Your a dangerous liberal
I’ll still disagree because I think you are making a conclusion and then trying rationalize it because of your past experience with the internet.
I don’t see the comparisons as valid but it really doesn’t matter. I think the proposal would work but like so many ideas it’s up to someone else to run with it or toss it in the trash.
[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
Im not exactly a huge fan of this administration but you, and the article originally cited, are completely mischaracterizing what Cheney said. He did not say “critics against the war are reprehensible.”
Speaking of a few specific, high level politicians who are making claims that the administration basically lied about pre-war intelligence, Cheney said, “[they are making] one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city.” That is completely different than what you are all trying to make it out to be…and I think you know it.[/quote]
Actually, I am referring to this, yet again:
“People should feel comfortable about expressing their opinions about Iraq,” Bush said, three days after agreeing with Vice President Dick Cheney that the critics were “reprehensible.”
Also, please don’t pretend as if there hasn’t been the attitude that those who speak against the war are speaking against the troops and are therefore against the country. We can take a trip through the posts on this forum and take quotes from people. It may take awhile to go through that much bickering to find it, but it’s there.
[quote]
So how come you all arent getting pissed off when conservative lecturers are shouted down at college campuses (dont even try to claim that it doesnt happen either). This is what cracks me up and ties in with the point I was trying to make earlier. Ever heard the expression that people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones? [/quote]
Point out who is being shouted down and for what reason and we can discuss that too. Also, who is “you all”?
While you may be able to convince yourself that what is stated on the air about a politician doesn’t affect the general public or those with similar views, I would hope that most know better.
[quote]hspder wrote:
I sincerely doubt they left just because of the forums. They probably just gave that out as an excuse. In fact, I’m willing to bet if the forums were closed to public posting the sales would go down. And if more mods were hired to enforce a no-flames policy, the sales would not go up proportionally.
[/quote]
I agree with this. If this site turned into some sort of “bodybuilding library” where none of the poster’s characters shine through, less people would log into the forums, not more. You can simply look around at which threads actually get the most hits. Usually they are NOT the ones where the poster asks a question and gets an immediate simple answer. In almost all forms of media, conflict breeds interest. Where is this not the case?
