The Democrat Debate

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside. [/quote]

Completely agree. “Enough with the damn emails!” No Bernie, it’s kind of important to know if foreign governments had access to classified information because Hillary Clinton wanted to keep her activities private. [/quote]

Double agree. Hey Bernie, you’re the candidate railing against the oligarchy and the anti-democratic elite - but you get a chance to hit a homer attacking the worst example of lack of accountability and powerful interests working behind the scenes (Hillary’s entire email fiasco) and you say “look the other way?”

What clown.
[/quote]

I’m seeing a lot of pro-Bernie stuff on facebook, and his ‘get along’ moment with Hillary was one of them. You said it perfectly. I’ll probably keep my opinion only on these forums as I don’t think its wise to battle over facebook even though Bernie’s stance to look the other way is completely illogical to his anti-elite position.

Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening.

22

Sanders loves poor people so much, he wants to create more of them.

Biggest threat Global Warming? Unbelievable.

23

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

very, bernie is a trial run …

24

Why is Sanders popular? The ignorant populace doesn’t understand what “FREE” means in political terms.

** THE BERNIE SANDERS MCDONALDS **

  • Walk up to the counter.
  • Rudely greeted by a teenager making $20/hr
  • Order anything you want
  • The guy behind you pays for it
25

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Why is Sanders popular? The ignorant populace doesn’t understand what “FREE” means in political terms.

** THE BERNIE SANDERS MCDONALDS **

  • Walk up to the counter.
  • Rudely greeted by a teenager making $20/hr
  • Order anything you want
  • The guy behind you pays for it

[/quote]

  • said guy pays $60 for the fair wage #4 value meal
26

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

Frightening indeed, but not surprising. My generation sucks.

27

I managed to watch the entire thing. I have never seen five people talk for three hours and not manage to say anything of substance. Pathetic. How does 45% of the country eat this up? Free college. Free paid leave. Free health insurance for illegals.

To summarize, I saw a three way discussion on how much freedom and money we can strip from the people if elected. (Three because Webb was out of place and I think Chafee is mildly retarded.)

28

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

Isn’t it? I hate being lumped in with “millennials.” Having a political conversation with my peers is like explaining to a child that Santa Clause doesn’t exist, and they refuse to believe it.

29

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

Ehh, everything comes in cycles. Being super left is “in” and “the new hotness” right now. Counter culture will become main culture soon enough.

(At least this is what I’m trying to convince myself of.)

30

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
(Three because Webb was out of place and I think Chafee is mildly retarded.)[/quote]

Webb looked like he was always about to say “I have a gun back off”.

As for Chafee yeah, he was out there wasn’t he? What a horrible group of candidates for the highest office in the land.

31

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
I think Chafee is mildly retarded[/quote]

This made me LOL … only because I’m from SE Mass and get a lot of RI news and am aware of the idiot that is Lincoln Chafee … he’s a buffoon

32

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

Ehh, everything comes in cycles. Being super left is “in” and “the new hotness” right now. Counter culture will become main culture soon enough.

(At least this is what I’m trying to convince myself of.)[/quote]

I hope you’re right, and I hope even more that the counter culture can be brought on by success of the GOP and not more economic stagnation that I believe would happen from any of the democratic candidates.

I would much rather have a Reagan type response from a GOP candidate that an anti-Bernie/Clinton response.

34

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Anyone want to trot out the mantra, “THERE’S REALLY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBS AND DEMS?”

And then defend it?[/quote]

You mean this one?

35

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.[/quote]

FYI this is a really short sighted view. The main reason as a country you want to fund the increase in education is to increase taxable revenue; its stupid candidates don’t express this. People with college degrees earn something in the order of $1M extra over their career. If you say these people are taxed at 30% then that’s an extra 300k per person into government coffers. They also require less aid and support during their working life and retirement. Its really a huge win for a country to provide free or virtually free education.

As to illegals or immigrants. If it’s anything like where I’m from (Australia) the proof is in and these people perform better than most natives. From what I’ve seen living here the last 2 years it seems that it’s true here too.

Americans from what I’ve found are a really great, generous, fun, inviting people; America is really fucking you guys hard. People to the left like Bernie might be offering a lot but its nothing many other countries don’t do and my personal hope is your country starts to foster a better environment for you guys :slight_smile: I think Sanders has a great message in this regard though implementation is questionable.

36

[quote]ozzyaaron wrote:
FYI this is a really short sighted view.[/quote]

FYI, you’re making a grave mistake if you think smh didn’t thoroughly think through his post before making it.

Because there are zero unintended consequences right?

Like the utter devaluation of a BS?
Like the fact out of the 50 best universities in the world, the vast majority are here, and not in socialist utopias?
Like increasing class sizes to the point where you need to double teachers and admin, which only makes it more and more expensive to fund?

And to say you called someone else short sighted…

Because this is a good thing? What? (EDIT: the tax portion, not the income portion.)

No. It isn’t. Economics 101.

Leftist love the word “free” but dont’ know what it means. It isn’t free, not by a long shot, not now, not ever. Not in American nor any country in the world.

No one dislikes immigrants. People dislike ILLEGAL immigrants.

There is a difference.

Yes, because we had our freedom confiscated at the point of a gun like you did? Because we are forced to vote like you are?

Because we have lower rape rates?
Because we have higher median income, by like 40%?
Because we have lower consumer prices, rent, restaurant and groceries prices?
Because we dont’ fleece the “rich” to give handouts to people?

(Note we have about 1,500% more people here than you do and STILl score better in all these places.)

In leftist paradise where people don’t have to earn what they get and can expect other people to provide it for them, yeah, America must really be fucking people.

[quote] People to the left like Bernie might be offering a lot but its nothing many other countries don’t do and my personal hope is your country starts to foster a better environment for you guys :slight_smile: I think Sanders has a great message in this regard though implementation is questionable.
[/quote]

I think I’m glad you can’t vote in America.

37

[quote]ozzyaaron wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.[/quote]

FYI this is a really short sighted view. The main reason as a country you want to fund the increase in education is to increase taxable revenue; its stupid candidates don’t express this. People with college degrees earn something in the order of $1M extra over their career. If you say these people are taxed at 30% then that’s an extra 300k per person into government coffers. They also require less aid and support during their working life and retirement. Its really a huge win for a country to provide free or virtually free education.
[/quote]

What you just wrote is short sighted. If we 100% fund higher education where will those funds come from? Higher capital gains tax, higher individual tax, and higher corporate tax. It won’t come from cuts to other program, not from this group anyway.

What does that mean?
Higher capital gains = higher require return = less investing = less money for companies to expand = less employment.

Higher individual tax = less money in the economy. It also means less employment in pass through entities.

Higher corporate tax = more offshoring = less employment.

You can’t make an additional $1M over a lifetime if you aren’t employed.

The WSJ estimate Sander’s plans will cost 17T over the next decade. That’s $17,000,000,000,000 on top of current spending.

[quote]
As to illegals or immigrants. If it’s anything like where I’m from (Australia) the proof is in and these people perform better than most natives. From what I’ve seen living here the last 2 years it seems that it’s true here too. [/quote]

Okay…

[quote]
Americans from what I’ve found are a really great, generous, fun, inviting people; America is really fucking you guys hard. [/quote]

Huh?

No thanks. Bernie isn’t “offering” anything. He wants to take from group A and give to group B. You and every other country can keep their shitty governments and excessive programs. We’re doing just fine without your input.

38

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
Seeing the mid-20’s generation on facebook respond so positively to Bernie is frightening. [/quote]

Frightening indeed, but not surprising. My generation sucks. [/quote]

Oh lord.

I wish you guys would actually read a book or something. Hey you can actually get a book on Socialism on Audible so you could just listen to it.

The understanding of socialism here is childish in the extreme. You have socialist programs already but for some reason I think you think socialism is the USSR (it wasn’t) whilst ignoring other quite socialist countries like Australia (my home), and all those amazing EU countries that are usually top of the pile for livability.

Just simply socialism isn’t “everything gets everything they want”, nor is it “everyone gets the same and the leftovers go to the government”. The idea is that everyone gets a basic level of livability and the excess that many have is reduced to provide this. If you have 3 houses and rent them out well sorry but that’s a sign of economic disparity, not prosperity. If you’re earning a million dollars then lets put in practices to shave that off and disperse it.

I think the assumption by the right wing here is that if you aren’t rich you just didn’t try hard enough but that’s a silly narrative and there are other ways people give back to society other than earning the most and having a bigger house. Socialism allows for this fact.

I don’t necessarily agree that what Sander is claiming he can do, he actually can do. I also don’t think you flip a switch on taxation, loopholes, regulation and so on and make things better. Everything needs to be put into a strategy that moves to more equal income, education and healthcare distribution. The issue is that his vision is truly amazing given what’s out there in the political sphere and definitely trumps any Republican vision. Implementation is a problem for me. I think we’d need to get a Democratic congress again and sweep out all of the Tea Party and anti-politicians first.

39

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

No thanks. Bernie isn’t “offering” anything. He wants to take from group A and give to group B. You and every other country can keep their shitty governments and excessive programs. We’re doing just fine without your input.
[/quote]