The Definition of a Moon-Bat

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Damn right life is not fair.

If you want your kids to go to a better school system save your money and send them to private school or move top an area that pays higher taxes and has a better public school.

Don’t demand someone else foots the bill for you.
[/quote]
I am not complaining for my sake. I live in a great district (St. Paul, MN 55104). I am complaining because there are other schools that have it way worse and whose kids will not have the same opportunities as my own. Moving to a more expensive district isn’t an option for most people.

Your kids, as you were, will be raised with no concept of social justice.

Just becasue you earn something does not entitle you to it over someone else–you owe everything you make to the people connected to you. Everyone in your life whether you know them or not is necessary for you to be able to earn what you do. Try to own a business and not see the interconnectedness of all things and you will fail.

Becasue you feel your money is a status symbol–and you feel it makes you more important than you are. This is a flaw that others share with you.

142

Unless you can afford serious coin for private school, go to the publics. If the tuition is low at a private school, so is the teacher pay. The turnover is tremendous as people try to find better pay. You get a core of old timers (ahem!) who love the place, and a majority who just want resume filler.

If the tuition is < $20,000 or its NOT a single-sex school, skip it and go public.

HH

143

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

…

My wife and I bust our asses to live in a decent area with good schools. So did our parents.

My kids will do the same thing for their kids.

Your kids, as you were, will be raised with no concept of social justice.
[/quote]

Are you implying that you have to be lazy to have a concept of social justice. You have no idea what you are talking about here.

[quote]

By shifting funds as you propose we will be hurt, not the small amount of rich kids. They will always be able to afford private school when you strip the decent public schools of their hard won tax doillars and ship them off to be misspent by those that have not earned them.

Just becasue you earn something does not entitle you to it over someone else–…[/quote]

No need to say anymore. You don’t even understand the basic concepts of earning.

I suggest you fork over 1/2 of your paycheck to the first homeless guy you see.

To pretend I don’t understand social interactions and my place in the economy is silly.

I suspect you work in a subsidized industry. Am I correct?

144

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

…
Why would I live in a high tax area if I don’t get the benefit of sending my kids to a school that gets the money?

Why would anyone?

Becasue you feel your money is a status symbol–and you feel it makes you more important than you are. This is a flaw that others share with you.[/quote]

Please. I drive an 11 year old small car, wear a Timex and $5 khakis. The only jewelry I own is my wedding ring.

I make thousands of dollars in charitible contributions a year.

I used to do volunteer work with kids and will do it again when my kids are older.

You are way off base.

145

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Just becasue you earn something does not entitle you to it over someone else[/quote]

What do you think “earning” means?

So I can walk into your house and take anything I like? After all, you aren’t entitled to it…

146

[quote]nephorm wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Just becasue you earn something does not entitle you to it over someone else

What do you think “earning” means?

So I can walk into your house and take anything I like? After all, you aren’t entitled to it…

[/quote]
Entitlement and ownership are two concepts that elude you? I hope not.

Ok…I did a poor job of explaining what I meant. Yes, I understand why people make what they make. I also understand that I did not earn my ability to make what I make on my own. No one does. We are all connected as a scociety. I owe society for many reasons.

I recieved aid for school in the form of student loans that was backed by federal money in the form of taxes. Without those taxes school would not have been an option for me. The books I studied from were printed on paper made from paper-trees that were farmed by tree farmers–who paid taxes. To farm those trees a farmer used a tractor that was made in a factory using steel wrought of iron mined from the earth by minors–who paid taxes. I could keep going night and day but I am sure you get the picture. Some of these jobs that are done so that I can live the life that I do, do not all pay the same. These people may not be able to afford to live in gated-communities where their kids can go to fancy-schmancy private schools. Should they not be afforded the same priveleges of public education because their parents do what they do? By this I mean should their schools be less because their parents can’t afford to pay higher taxes?

Most of us contribute in some way to society. What makes what one person does more worthy of what they possess than another? Working hard has nothing to do with ones position in life.

147

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
nephorm wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Just becasue you earn something does not entitle you to it over someone else

What do you think “earning” means?

So I can walk into your house and take anything I like? After all, you aren’t entitled to it…

Entitlement and ownership are two concepts that elude you? I hope not.

Ok…I did a poor job of explaining what I meant. Yes, I understand why people make what they make. I also understand that I did not earn my ability to make what I make on my own. No one does. We are all connected as a scociety. I owe society for many reasons.

I recieved aid for school in the form of student loans that was backed by federal money in the form of taxes. Without those taxes school would not have been an option for me. The books I studied from were printed on paper made from paper-trees that were farmed by tree farmers–who paid taxes. To farm those trees a farmer used a tractor that was made in a factory using steel wrought of iron mined from the earth by minors–who paid taxes. I could keep going night and day but I am sure you get the picture. Some of these jobs that are done so that I can live the life that I do, do not all pay the same. These people may not be able to afford to live in gated-communities where their kids can go to fancy-schmancy private schools. Should they not be afforded the same priveleges of public education because their parents do what they do? By this I mean should their schools be less because their parents can’t afford to pay higher taxes?

Most of us contribute in some way to society. What makes what one person does more worthy of what they possess than another? Working hard has nothing to do with ones position in life.[/quote]

Holeeee crap. I think we are back to the definition of a moon bat.

Nice job, LIFTICVS

148

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Are you implying that you have to be lazy to have a concept of social justice. You have no idea what you are talking about here.
[/quote]

No, most people who bust their ass to make a living are blinded by the fact that they think they did it all on their own. No one does anything on his or her own.

Social justice is understanding that sometimes circumstances in life make it impossible for everyone to lead a life in the pursuit of their own happiness and being able to distinguish when it is prudent to act in a civil manner toward one’s “neighbor”.

Yes…but I don’t consider it industry–it’s mostly academia.

149

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Holeeee crap. I think we are back to the definition of a moon bat.

Nice job, LIFTICVS

[/quote]
Ummmmm…was it too much for you to wrap your mind around?

If you really want to know this isn’t something I just made up. This is one of the main principles of Buhhdism that I think I agree with.

Seriously though, we are all interconnected and cannot exist independently of our relationships with the world, people, obects, or ideas around us.

This is just my opinion. I don’t expect most people to agree with me–nor do I think most people able to understand the main concept here.

150

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This is just my opinion. I don’t expect most people to agree with me–nor do I think most people able to understand the main concept here.[/quote]

The concept is not that difficult.

You are advocating socialism.

If we ever became a socialist country, I would stop working immediately.

151

To earn money is one of the most moral things you can do. It means that you engaged in voluntary trade with someone else, that no one was the slave and none the master. “To trade with money is a reflection of the best within you.” (Guess who)

HH

152

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
To earn money is one of the most moral things you can do. It means that you engaged in voluntary trade with someone else, that no one was the slave and none the master. “To trade with money is a reflection of the best within you.” (Guess who)

HH[/quote]

Even better:
“Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property.”
(Guess who)

153

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Holeeee crap. I think we are back to the definition of a moon bat.

Nice job, LIFTICVS

Ummmmm…was it too much for you to wrap your mind around?

If you really want to know this isn’t something I just made up. This is one of the main principles of Buhhdism that I think I agree with.

Seriously though, we are all interconnected and cannot exist independently of our relationships with the world, people, obects, or ideas around us.

This is just my opinion. I don’t expect most people to agree with me–nor do I think most people able to understand the main concept here.[/quote]

I never said you made it up, nor did I ever hint at it being over my head.

If that’s how you want to live you life - knock yourself out. But don’t sit there and feign some sort of moral superiority because others may believe in private property, and capitalism.

Other than just give it lip service - I am a small business owner. In fact I have two businesses going right now and should be adding a third this fall. I don’t need a lecture on business by someone that derives their income from the tax revenue stream.

Maybe if you had to actually work for a living, you would hold less digust for those that actually pay your salary, while you do nothing but contemplate the meaning of Buhhdism. That’s my opinion.

154

[quote]rainjack wrote:
If that’s how you want to live you life - knock yourself out. But don’t sit there and feign some sort of moral superiority because others may believe in private property, and capitalism.
[/quote]

First, don’t diss Buddhism - it’s the most peaceful religion on the planet, and filled with incredible wisdom. Most people would do well to read the Dhammapadda.

Second, there’s a HUGE difference between equalized distribution of tax dollars to schools and outright socialism. Schools in low-income areas get screwed in SO MANY RESPECTS it’s not even funny. We need to ensure that EVERYONE is getting the same good opportunities, even if their parents can’t afford to live in a nice neighborhood and pay higher property taxes and send them to a better off public school.

If schools recieved identical funding no matter where they were located, you’d probably realize how sorely underfunded our schools ARE, and you’d probably advocate for increases in their funding.

I’m not talking about about communism, making everyone’s salary the same, paying people not to work, or punnishing the rich. I’m talking about equal opportunity here… and if you don’t believe in equal opportunity, maybe you don’t believe in public schools at all… maybe you don’t think the poor deserve an education? If so, fine, go be anarchists… but I’m going to continue to fight tooth and nail to provide kids the opportunities that THEY deserve DESPITE WHO their parents are, or how much money they make.

155

[quote]knewsom wrote:
First, don’t diss Buddhism - it’s the most peaceful religion on the planet, and filled with incredible wisdom. Most people would do well to read the Dhammapadda.[/quote]

I didn’t “diss” anything. I called LIFT out for thinking he is superior, or more enlightened , or whatever you want to call it.

WTF are you even talking about? Show me where I have said a damned word about socialism in this thread.

Do you live in a low income area? Do you have kids going to school in a low income area? Do you even have kids at all?

Please read my posts in this thread before crawling on my ass. It just makes you look like a stupid fuck when you start rambling without having the slightest idea of what your target has said previously.

156

[quote]rainjack wrote:
knewsom wrote:
First, don’t diss Buddhism - it’s the most peaceful religion on the planet, and filled with incredible wisdom. Most people would do well to read the Dhammapadda.

I didn’t “diss” anything. I called LIFT out for thinking he is superior, or more enlightened , or whatever you want to call it.

Second, there’s a HUGE difference between equalized distribution of tax dollars to schools and outright socialism.

WTF are you even talking about? Show me where I have said a damned word about socialism in this thread.

Schools in low-income areas get screwed in SO MANY RESPECTS it’s not even funny. We need to ensure that EVERYONE is getting the same good opportunities, even if their parents can’t afford to live in a nice neighborhood and pay higher property taxes and send them to a better off public school.

Do you live in a low income area? Do you have kids going to school in a low income area? Do you even have kids at all?

Please read my posts in this thread before crawling on my ass. It just makes you look like a stupid fuck when you start rambling without having the slightest idea of what your target has said previously. [/quote]

Jack,

It wasn’t my intention to attack you - merely to point out a few things that I felt were sorely missing in this discussion - because I quoted you doesn’t mean my entire post was directed soley at you.

It was not you who mentioned socialism, but you made a remark that referenced it… the “not believing in private property” remark. It was my assumption that you were simply agreeing with previous comments essentially calling lift a socialist moonbat.

…regardless of his political alignment, I think his point on education is right on. Where I live, whether I have kids or not, etc. has little bearing on this discussion. I know people who TEACH in low income areas, I WENT to school in a low income area for two years, and I know people with children who will be going to school in low income areas.

Obviously I want the children in my life to go to the best schools possible - and were I millionaire, I’d send my nieces and cousins to the finest private schools I could… but I’m NOT a millionaire. I’m a fairly average wage earner, and I don’t have kids yet. I WILL someday, but in the meantime, do you see me complaining about my tax dollars going to educate some other people’s kids??

NO, education is a MAJOR priority. When I DO have kids, I’ll probably send them to public school, and I’ll probably do what I can to help make their school as good a school as I can by donating time as a volunteer to the school, musical instruments, sports equipment, etc. if I can afford it. In fact, I’ve donated books, etc. to local schools before, and like I said, I DONT have kids.

That’s cool that you run a business, but I’m sure in your experience you’ve met plenty of people who work extremeley hard but aren’t paid what they’re worth.

…don’t you think their kids deserve a good education and opportunities to learn equal to those of the children of families who can afford to live in the rich neighborhoods?

157

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Second, there’s a HUGE difference between equalized distribution of tax dollars to schools and outright socialism.
[/quote]

Once you start saying that people aren’t entitled to what they earn, that’s socialism. I don’t care how specific the application of the socialist principle might be; it’s still socialism. Once we accept the premise, all policy would have to bow to it.

I never called lifticus a socialist; I said that he was advocating socialism. I don’t think that he thinks he is a socialist, but his arguments are tending in that direction.

The rich will always be privileged. That is what being rich is about. If you try to equalize tax dollars, middle class people will move out of higher-tax, higher-cost areas, which will further stratify the districts.

If you try to equalize the allocated tax dollars, you won’t see a whole lot of benefit to the poorer schools (since there are a lot of them, and the extra money spreads thin), but what are now richer schools will suffer. Or, wealthy donors will make sure the school gets what it needs, and it will still be privileged over the poorer ones.

158

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
…

I suspect you work in a subsidized industry. Am I correct?

Yes…but I don’t consider it industry–it’s mostly academia.[/quote]

That explains much.

159

[quote]nephorm wrote:
…
The rich will always be privileged. That is what being rich is about. If you try to equalize tax dollars, middle class people will move out of higher-tax, higher-cost areas, which will further stratify the districts.

If you try to equalize the allocated tax dollars, you won’t see a whole lot of benefit to the poorer schools (since there are a lot of them, and the extra money spreads thin), but what are now richer schools will suffer. Or, wealthy donors will make sure the school gets what it needs, and it will still be privileged over the poorer ones.[/quote]

Lift, try to understand this. It is a key concept.

160

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
To earn money is one of the most moral things you can do. It means that you engaged in voluntary trade with someone else, that no one was the slave and none the master. “To trade with money is a reflection of the best within you.” (Guess who)

HH

Even better:
“Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property.”
(Guess who)[/quote]

Before I scroll down: this sounds like Rousseau or perhaps Locke. I have to admit, though, that I’m unfamiliar. Since I don’t know who your favorite philospher is, that’d be my guess.

HH