The Definition of a Moon-Bat

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]knewsom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
knewsom wrote:

…forcing kids in schools to pray…

Where has this happened?

It never has happpened. The left took the right to pray away.

I didn’t mean to say that it HAS happened - of course it hasn’t. Thank GOD for the democrats and that thing called the constitution!

The RIGHT to pray has never been questioned, and obviously never taken away. Kids can pray in school all they like… Totally legal. But teacher-led forced prayer? Totally illegal, and for good reason.

…[/quote]

I know left wing groups have sued school systems to prevent moments of silence that were intended to give kids time to voluntarily pray.

I am not gung-ho on school prayer, I think it is a stupid issue and would oppose any mandatory prayers in public schools but all the cases I remember were not mandatory and the left wing groups were trying to take away opportunities to pray.

62

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The problem with philosphers is that they unleash ideas upon the world, not realizing that evil people can use those ideas for immoral purposes. If the common man sees the phrase ‘the greatest good for the greatest number’, how would they interprete that? For this reason, it is my belief that Mill should be criticized: he did not see how his philosophy would be used by men.

It is not enough to simply spit out a theory and hope for the best. (Think of Hegel, Fichte, Schopenhauer.) Someone will use those ideas for evil, as they did. It must be clear TO EVERYONE precisely what is being said, so no one can be tricked, abused and so forth.

This is the beauty of Ayn Rand’s philosophy. It (her political philosophy) can be summed up in two words: “Hands Off!!” All relationships between people must be voluntary on ALL sides. Simple and clear.
[/quote]
HH,

Anything can be used for evil by anyone if it is misinterpreted–even Ayn Rand.

The problem is not the philosophers but the lack of critical analysis by people who would use these philosophies to justify unjust actions. Also, at the time, these people didn’t view what they were doing as evil. We can thank historians for that. All histories are written by the conquerors. If history had turned out differently we might be speaking the evils of democracy and free thinking.

63

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I am not gung-ho on school prayer, I think it is a stupid issue and would oppose any mandatory prayers in public schools but all the cases I remember were not mandatory and the left wing groups were trying to take away opportunities to pray.
[/quote]Hey Zap,

Why do kids need to pray in school, let alone be afforded the opportunity to pray at school? If they spent time praying at home and studying, praying would be unnecessary.

But seriously, if we allow certain individuals the right to pray we have to make sure we include everyone. For instance, Moslems require more than one prayer session per day. Would be make time for that too?

We don’t have to just stop at prayer for this issue. What if my child required a special diet due to religious practices would we make the schools provide for this diet? Or what if a child were required to wear certain ornamentation that distracted from lessons–would he or she be kept from wearing it? You see? It’s not just about prayer but the practice of religion in general.

This is why parochial schools exist.

64

[quote]nephorm wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Conservatives are facists, and the worst KIND of facists - the kind that pour the honeytalk of freedom in your ear while handcuffing you with a bible (and probably the “revised new standard american edition”) behind your back.

"Please don’t judge me as a liberal based on the insane few like this lady I met. Don’t generalize!

Btw, all conservatives are fascists, and I hear you really like to screw your mothers. And God sucks.

Love,

Knewsom"

[/quote]

lol - perhaps I left out a qualifier… The so-called religious-right hardcore conservatives are facists. Or, “the conservatives who want to force all schoolkids to pray and ban gay marriage are facists”.

there we go.

But seriously - my intent was to prove a point - one that was re-iterated by lucasa: evil knows no party.

…it should also be noted however, that evil is especially dangerous when cloaked in the guise of divine richeousness and morality.

65

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I know left wing groups have sued school systems to prevent moments of silence that were intended to give kids time to voluntarily pray.

I am not gung-ho on school prayer, I think it is a stupid issue and would oppose any mandatory prayers in public schools but all the cases I remember were not mandatory and the left wing groups were trying to take away opportunities to pray.[/quote]

…yet have they sued SUCCESSFULLY? Also, I believe these are fairly isolated incidents, because schools observe moments of silence all the time without getting sued. Furthermore, the point was that it’s legal for kids to pray in school if they want to, but it’s illegal to FORCE them to pray.

66

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The problem with philosphers is that they unleash ideas upon the world, not realizing that evil people can use those ideas for immoral purposes. If the common man sees the phrase ‘the greatest good for the greatest number’, how would they interprete that? For this reason, it is my belief that Mill should be criticized: he did not see how his philosophy would be used by men.
[/quote]

I’ve never been impressed with that argument, although many people who I respect do hold it. I disagree.

At any rate, that doesn’t excuse you, HeadHunter, who has a degree in philosophy, from responsibility for propagating a myth about Mill’s work in order to further your attack on modern ‘liberalism’. I don’t think I’m being unfair…

67

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why do kids need to pray in school, let alone be afforded the opportunity to pray at school?[/quote]

If I hadn’t been allowed to pray at school, I never would’ve gotten my engineering degree.

68

[quote]nephorm wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why do kids need to pray in school, let alone be afforded the opportunity to pray at school?

If I hadn’t been allowed to pray at school, I never would’ve gotten my engineering degree.
[/quote]
come on…? If prayer is what got you through then you lack self confidence. Besides engineering is easy…unless it is chemical or aerospace.

69

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
come on…? If prayer is what got you through then you lack self confidence.
[/quote]

If I were a professional comedian, I would not want you in my audience.

Or computer. A giant middle finger to you, sir.

70

[quote]nephorm wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
come on…? If prayer is what got you through then you lack self confidence.

If I were a professional comedian, I would not want you in my audience.

Besides engineering is easy…unless it is chemical or aerospace.

Or computer. A giant middle finger to you, sir.
[/quote]

Ha! I kid all engineers. Much respect to the middle finger.

As far as the jokes go it is hard to tell when one is being facetious in written words.

71

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I am not gung-ho on school prayer, I think it is a stupid issue and would oppose any mandatory prayers in public schools but all the cases I remember were not mandatory and the left wing groups were trying to take away opportunities to pray.
Hey Zap,

Why do kids need to pray in school, let alone be afforded the opportunity to pray at school? If they spent time praying at home and studying, praying would be unnecessary.

But seriously, if we allow certain individuals the right to pray we have to make sure we include everyone. For instance, Moslems require more than one prayer session per day. Would be make time for that too?

We don’t have to just stop at prayer for this issue. What if my child required a special diet due to religious practices would we make the schools provide for this diet? Or what if a child were required to wear certain ornamentation that distracted from lessons–would he or she be kept from wearing it? You see? It’s not just about prayer but the practice of religion in general.

This is why parochial schools exist.[/quote]

I am not going to argue for school prayer.

My point is that the left has opposed giving kids the opportunity to choose.

I am not aware of the right trying to make it mandatory.

72

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
… Besides engineering is easy…unless it is chemical or aerospace.
[/quote]

Got that right.

73

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Ok, so you guys know me, you know that I’m probably the most liberal person you can imagine.

…or perhaps among the top five. :wink:

I went to Humboldt State University, I’m an environmentalist, to me war is a last resort, and I was once a registered Socialist, and I actually switched to being a registered Democrat because I want to help bring the party back to the true left.

…but last night, I was shocked and awed by the moonbat I met. There I was, at the Angelides victory rally/party, crowded in front of the stage with a bunch of people awaiting Phil’s victory speech, and she began speaking to me, much to my dismay. She laid a guilt trip on me becasue I still own a vehicle. She said that you can commute ANYWHERE using public transit, and when I told here the neighborhood that I live in and where I work, she said, “oh yeah, that IS tough”. To that I said, well, that’s why I bought a motorcycle. She said motorcycles are worse than cars! She said I should buy a new hybrid - to that I had to remind her the sheer ammount of energy it takes to manufacture a new car, to say nothing of the pollution it creates. Consumerism has FAR greater impact on the environment than riding and maintaing an old motorcycle. This lady was NUTS.

She went on to tell me that the war in Iraq was genocide - that the soldiers recieved orders from “high-up” to torture and murder Iraqi civillians. She said Bush was worse than Hitler.

I’m not fucking kidding.

I mean, I’m no fan of Bush, and I’m pissed this war ever took place, but dammit we made this mess, and we have to clean it up! Comparing a tragic murder in Iraq to the 6 MILLION Jews slain in the holocaust is INSANE.

If anybody meets any nutcase like this woman, please remember: they’re not accurate representatives of the true liberals in America - they’re a distinct minority, and INSANE.

I mean, I’m totally used to talking sustainability - I walk a lot, I ride a motorcycle, I drive old vehicles, I compost, I recycle, I turn off the sink when I brush my teeth. I know several recipes for biodiesel.

So please, just do me a favor and don’t EVER lump me in with the true moonbats - they ARE OUT THERE AND THEY’RE SCARY!

-K[/quote]

Was this girl Al Gore in drag?

74

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Why do kids need to pray in school, let alone be afforded the opportunity to pray at school? If they spent time praying at home and studying, praying would be unnecessary.
[/quote]

Because we are afforded that right under the constitution. It had been a part of public education for decades, until the left decided that if violated the very amendment that provides for it.

I would never be in favor of forced prayer. That is as wrong as outlawing it.

75

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
knewsom wrote:
tme wrote:
vroom wrote:
I’m forming a radical anti-fundamentalist group… any takers?

I’m in!

I donno… I think I’m going to start a group for moderate fundamentalism. :smiley:

So, was she hot? Did you do her anyway?

shudder

At least extremist liberals are fairly benign and don’t go blowing up buildings or anything…

but SHIT they’re annoying!

Hello, PETA!? Green-peace?!
[/quote]

Ok.

But they don’t have anybody in the white house. I suggest we concentrate our efforts on the fundamentalist living there.

76

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Because we are afforded that right under the constitution. It had been a part of public education for decades, until the left decided that if violated the very amendment that provides for it.

I would never be in favor of forced prayer. That is as wrong as outlawing it.

[/quote]
No it doesn’t. If anything it provides for the protection of your right to believe and to worship; however, not in schools–especially gov’t funded schools.
Personally, I think if you want to pray then you should go to a private religious school and keep my child from being witness to that sillyness.

77

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
My point is that the left has opposed giving kids the opportunity to choose.

[/quote]
As far as I know kids aren’t allowed to choose anything for themselves so why this? My right as a parent is greater than a child’s percieved rights.

I am not against prayer I am against it in schools–willingly or unwillingly. As a parent I don’t want my kids subjected to superstitions–just as I don’t want them to witness glorified senseless violence. Can’t kids pray before school. School only lasts 6 hours…they can pray as soon as they get home.

78

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
No it doesn’t. If anything it provides for the protection of your right to believe and to worship; however, not in schools–especially gov’t funded schools.
Personally, I think if you want to pray then you should go to a private religious school and keep my child from being witness to that sillyness.[/quote]

I think it should apply more to tax-payer funded education than anywhere else.

As for the silliness - unless I force you to participate in it, which has never happened, I should be able to exercise my constitutional rights, regardless of what you or your child think of it.

79

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
My point is that the left has opposed giving kids the opportunity to choose.

As far as I know kids aren’t allowed to choose anything for themselves so why this? My right as a parent is greater than a child’s percieved rights.

…[/quote]

My kid gets choices everyday in school.

Hot lunch or cold lunch. Milk or juice.

She chooses what she draws in art class.

She chooses what she writes in her school journal.

She could handle a choice in whether to pray or not.

80

[quote]rainjack wrote:
As for the silliness - unless I force you to participate in it, which has never happened, I should be able to exercise my constitutional rights, regardless of what you or your child think of it.
[/quote]

It’s never happened, but conservatives have tried time and again to institute mandatory praryer in school, not to mention attempts to ban the teaching of evolution. Religious teachings do not belong in school unless necessary to lend perspective to history. Teachers need not be preachers.