I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?
And Jesus spoke of a rich man; “In hell where he was intorment…I beg you, father send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment…they will repent.”
Do you think that the rich man was enjoying himself in hell? Do you think he was oblivious to the torment that he wanted to warn his brothers about?
It might be time to admit that you’ve been buying into the wrong information. We do live in a time where no one wants to admit that there are consequences for their actions. This no punishment in hell nonsense speaks directly to this current popular mind-set. Isn’t it wonderful that we can do anything that we want and there will be no punishment for it, you just simply fade away cease to exist. What a tragic and misguided concept to be peddling
I hope no one is fooled by this nonsense. There are indeed consequences for all of your actions on this earth and beyond.
[/quote]
Can you please stop twisting my words or drawing conclusion of my words. When did I say there was no punishment? Is life a gift? I would think if it is, it would be a punishment to remove life, no?
You acting toward me with your current tone, doesn’t change any facts. I do not have everything perfect, but I am willing to hear expressions based soundly in the Bible. To call what I am saying nonsense, is pretty closed minded. You don’t have to agree, but to express yourself in a manner that closes off decent conversation, is rather closed-minded.
Now, if you would like to discuss the scripture you shared in Luke we can do that. If you feel that a open, frank conversation about it would be wrong or non-productive, that is your prerogative.
I personally think it would be extremely eye-opening to look at the translations of Ha’des, Sheol, and Gehenna and see their English equivalents.
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
Most wars are justified on religious grounds.
Of course if a soldier felt uneasy about slaughtering others, they could always turn to a chaplain who would then patiently explain to them that killing is allowed by God and about the righteous morality of war. He might then give a few Biblical examples of God ordained killings. And then he might tell them that Jesus will forgive them and send them to Heaven if they should happen to die.
Sorry couldn’t get the pics in not to computer savy, but they are pics of a bunch of priest in a machine gun area blessing the machine guns and the rest you can read for your self its easy to google these pics
Current conflicts and wars:
It is important to realize that most of the world’s current “hot spots” have a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors. We list below some conflicts which have as their base at least some degree of religious intolerance:
Country Main religious groups involved Type of conflict
Afghanistan Extreme, radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups & non-Muslims Osama bin Laden heads a terrorist group called Al Quada (The Source) whose headquarters were in Afghanistan. They were protected by, and integrated with, the Taliban dictatorship in the country. The Northern Alliance of rebel Afghans, Britain and the U.S. attacked the Taliban and Al Quada, establishing a new regime in part of the country. The fighting continues.
Bosnia Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic), Muslims Fragile peace is holding, due to the presence of peacekeepers. 2
Côte d’Ivoire Muslims, Indigenous, Christian Following the elections in late 2000, government security forces “began targeting civilians solely and explicitly on the basis of their religion, ethnic group, or national origin. The overwhelming majority of victims come from the largely Muslim north of the country, or are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants…” 5 A military uprising continued the slaughter in 2002.
Cyprus Christians & Muslims The island is partitioned, creating enclaves for ethnic Greeks (Christians) and Turks (Muslims). A UN peace keeping force is maintaining stability.
East Timor Christians & Muslims A Roman Catholic country. About 30% of the population died by murder, starvation or disease after they were forcibly annexed by Indonesia (mainly Muslim). After voting for independence, many Christians were exterminated or exiled by the Indonesian army and army-funded militias in a carefully planned program of genocide and religious cleansing. The situation is now stable.
India Animists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims & Sikhs Various conflicts that heat up periodically producing loss of life. Christians are regularly attacked in Orissa province by militant Hindu extremists.
Indonesia, province of Ambon Christians & Muslims After centuries of relative peace, conflicts between Christians and Muslims started during 1999-JUL in this province of Indonesia. The situation now appears to be stable.
Indonesia, province of Halmahera Christians & Muslims 30 people killed. 2,000 Christians driven out; homes and churches destroyed.
Iraq Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Sunni Muslims, western armed forces By mid-2006, a small scale civil war, primarily between Shiite and Sunni Muslims started. The situation appears to be steadily improving since the coalition forces have withdrawn from the cities.
Kashmir Hindus & Muslims A chronically unstable region of the world, claimed by both Pakistan and India. The availability of nuclear weapons and the eagerness to use them are destabilizing the region further. More details Thirty to sixty thousand people have died since 1989.
Kosovo Serbian Orthodox Christians & Muslims Peace enforced by NATO peacekeepers. There is convincing evidence of past mass murder by Yugoslavian government (mainly Serbian Orthodox Christians) against ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslim) Full story
Kurdistan Christians, Muslims Periodic assaults on Christians (Protestant, Chaldean Catholic, & Assyrian Orthodox).
Macedonia Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims Muslims (often referred to as ethnic Albanians) engaged in a civil war with the rest of the country who are primarily Macedonian Orthodox Christians during the 1990s. A peace treaty has been signed. Disarmament by NATO is complete.
Middle East Jews, Muslims, & Christians The peace process between Israel and Palestine suffered a complete breakdown. This has resulted in the deaths of thousands, in the ratio of three dead for each Jew who died. Major strife broke out in 2000-SEP. Flareups repeat. No resolution appears possible.
Nigeria Christians, Animists, & Muslims Yourubas and Christians in the south of the country are battling Muslims in the north. Country is struggling towards democracy after decades of Muslim military dictatorships. More details
Northern Ireland Protestants, Catholics After 3,600 killings and assassinations over 30 years. A ceasefire is holding.
Pakistan Suni & Shi’ite Muslims Low level mutual attacks, overshadowed by Taliban insurrectionists.
Philippines Christians & Muslims A low level conflict between the mainly Christian central government and Muslims in the south of the country has continued for centuries. More details
Russia,
Chechnya Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims The Russian army attacked the breakaway region. Many atrocities have been alleged on both sides. According to the Voice of the Martyrs: “In January 2002 Chechen rebels included all Christians on their list of official enemies, vowing to ‘blow up every church and mission-related facility in Russia’.” 7
Somalia Wahhabi and Sufi Muslims Sufi Muslims – a tolerant moderate tradition of Islam are fighting the Shabab who follow the Wahhabi tradition of Islam in a continuing conflict.
South Africa Animists & “Witches” Hundreds of persons, suspected and accused of witches practicing black magic, are murdered each year.
Sri Lanka Buddhists & Hindus Tamils (a mainly Hindu 18% minority) are involved in a war for independence since 1983 with the rest of the country (70% Sinhalese Buddhist). Hundreds of thousands have been killed. The conflict took a sudden change for the better in 2002-SEP, when the Tamils dropped their demand for complete independence. The South Asian Tsunami in 2004-DEC induced some cooperation. By 2009 the Tamil uprising was crushed…
Sudan Animists, Christians & Muslims Complex ethnic, racial, religious conflict in which the Muslim regime committed genocide against both Animists and Christians in the south of the country. Slavery and near slavery were practiced. A ceasefire was signed in 2006-MAY between some of the combatants. 3 Warfare continues in the Darfur region, primarily between a Muslim militia and Muslim inhabitants. 8
Thailand Buddhists & Muslims Muslim rebels have been involved in a bloody insurgency in southern Thailand – a country that is 95% Buddhist.
Tibet Buddhists & Communists Country was annexed by Chinese Communists in late 1950’s. Brutal suppression of Buddhism continues. *
Uganda Animists, Christians, & Muslims Christian rebels of the Lord’s Resistance Army are conducting a civil war in the north of Uganda. Their goal is a Christian theocracy whose laws are based on the Ten Commandments. They abduct, enslave and/or raped about 2,000 children a year. 6
I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?[/quote]
What do you believe? How are you to be Saved? What does Saved mean to you? How do you get to heaven?
I am trying to be sincere here. No motivations. I really want to hear what you have to say about this. I derailed the discussion with a personal attack and I do apologize. Will you forgive me for my judgemental behavior?
[quote]BULLD0G700 wrote:
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
[/quote]
So you say a group of Priests who are German saluted Nazi Germany. Huh, what a surprise, you think that might have anything to do with the fact that they grew up in the same situations as other Germans. However they may have not wished to actually kill the Jews. Don’t know since we can’t examine their reasons behind it if they never explained.
As well as that is, there were groups of priests that were excommunicated because of that, and also for other stuff concerning heretics. However, if you take a group of priests that are amerced in a certain culture and then when the act a fool you claim that it’s the Catholic Church’s teachings? No, it is that group of priests if it is not in accordance with the Church, sorry. How about the Pope, if you want to look at what the Catholic Church believes, look at the Popes actions.
Are you going to argue with 6000 Jews hidden in various ways in the Vatican through out the war, plus others outside the Vatican that were hid in places like monasteries and Cathedrals?
I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?[/quote]
What do you believe? How are you to be Saved? What does Saved mean to you? How do you get to heaven?
I am trying to be sincere here. No motivations. I really want to hear what you have to say about this. I derailed the discussion with a personal attack and I do apologize. Will you forgive me for my judgemental behavior?[/quote]
Of course I forgive you. If you would like to see what I believe, please reread some of my past beliefs. I list a lot of them on one of the posts.
[quote]BULLD0G700 wrote:
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
[/quote]
[quote]BULLD0G700 wrote:
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
Priests giving the Hitler salute
Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.
(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)
[/quote]
So you say a group of Priests who are German saluted Nazi Germany. Huh, what a surprise, you think that might have anything to do with the fact that they grew up in the same situations as other Germans. However they may have not wished to actually kill the Jews. Don’t know since we can’t examine their reasons behind it if they never explained.
As well as that is, there were groups of priests that were excommunicated because of that, and also for other stuff concerning heretics. However, if you take a group of priests that are amerced in a certain culture and then when the act a fool you claim that it’s the Catholic Church’s teachings? No, it is that group of priests if it is not in accordance with the Church, sorry. How about the Pope, if you want to look at what the Catholic Church believes, look at the Popes actions.
Are you going to argue with 6000 Jews hidden in various ways in the Vatican through out the war, plus others outside the Vatican that were hid in places like monasteries and Cathedrals? [/quote]
On top of the fact that is was mandatory to salute the furor and the nazis had just taken over, nobody knew what they would end up doing.
Also, let’s not forget that Mussolini had the Vatican under siege during the war and despite that fact it did save the lives of many from the holocaust…
I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?[/quote]
You are also saying that there is no eternal punishment felt in hell, and that one just stops existing and that is wrong minded and could lead people astray.
[quote]BULLD0G700 wrote:
I was just surprised that you question his religion, while in your second post you support the Catholic religion which have said and done wrong things also (my aunt still doesn’t eat meat on Fridays’)and also supporting Nazi Germany, let alone go into its gruesome past. Pat said it best in his post people are passoniate in what they believe. Just thought it was an unfair shot on your part[/quote]
Well I am deeply sorry your Aunt freely chooses to not eat meat on Friday, bless her heart. And would you like to show evidence of the Catholic Church supporting Nazi Germany?
Yes, the Catholic Church did horrendous things even to our own kind in the past. What do you want us to do say everything is wrong, especially when it is two different subject matters? Your examples will fail as proof of the false teachings and Catholic Church being wrong in matters of religion. Please support your examples with proof of wrong doing or come up with other examples please. This is a theological debate, not if the Catholic Church did something corrupt in its affairs. However, please elaborate on the Catholic Church’s corruption further as your two examples have no weight so far in an argument of corruption (which could implicate the Church further on matters of theology).[/quote]
The church also get the blame for things it did not do. See Spanish Inquisition. That was Ferdinand and Isabell acting on the pretext that it was for the church, but Pope Sixtus, when he found out what they were doing, was powerless to stop it. He could denounce but do little more. Church armies were actually state armies fighting on behalf of the church. The spanish army was entangled in war against the Moor’s in Turkey. Sixtus, had not power or authority to stop them.
I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?[/quote]
You are also saying that there is no eternal punishment felt in hell, and that one just stops existing and that is wrong minded and could lead people astray.
[/quote]
No eternal punishment FELT in hell, correct. If you believe that their is eternal punishment in hell involving pain and torture, feel free. I don’t believe that agrees with the Bible personally. In fact, I believe the notion of eternal torment came about much later, and was never an original teaching.
And Jesus spoke of a rich man; “In hell where he was intorment…I beg you, father send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment…they will repent.”
Do you think that the rich man was enjoying himself in hell? Do you think he was oblivious to the torment that he wanted to warn his brothers about?
It might be time to admit that you’ve been buying into the wrong information. We do live in a time where no one wants to admit that there are consequences for their actions. This no punishment in hell nonsense speaks directly to this current popular mind-set. Isn’t it wonderful that we can do anything that we want and there will be no punishment for it, you just simply fade away cease to exist. What a tragic and misguided concept to be peddling
I hope no one is fooled by this nonsense. There are indeed consequences for all of your actions on this earth and beyond.
Can you please stop twisting my words or drawing conclusion of my words. When did I say there was no punishment? Is life a gift? I would think if it is, it would be a punishment to remove life, no?[/quote]
Your words have not been twisted, you have a very simple message that is simply wrong. You claimed that one cannot feel torment in hell, that is wrong and I’ve pointed out why it’s wrong.
You are in fact attempting to twist the words that are clearly written in the Christian Bible. I assume, at this point, you are doing it because you are confused.
I gave you many scriptures which clearly point out that you are wrong regarding hell, you’ve not acknowledged any of them you just continue to dodge the issue and claim that others are not treating you properly. All you have to do is explain how these scriptures can be interpreted any other way and you’ll have proved your point.
Being open minded is good when it comes to accepting something that is good and can help you. A new supplement, a new training program etc. But, I know nonsense when I see it, read it, or hear it, and I’m not about to accept it as anything other than what it is. There is a time to be open minded and there is a time to call nonsense just what it is. Your argument has zero validity and is in fact nonsense.
As I’ve told you previously I’ve studied the Greek version of the New Testament and I, and more importantly a panel of Biblical scholars, have found the interpretations virtually flawless. As for the ancient Hebrew in the Old Testament the same can be said.
What is there to discuss? Do you feel you have more knowledge than the thousands of Biblical scholars who have studied the scriptures as their lifes work?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
It consistently amazes me that the phrase “Live and let live” is left out of religion so often.
I don’t know when it became “Believe what I do or you’re going to hell.”
You people are all pathetic. [/quote]
If you had any sort of understanding or respect for the Bible (and I know you don’t) you would understand that it’s not me, or anyone on this thread that is claiming “believe what I do or you’re going to hell” it’s God’s word.
[/quote]
yes yes, the talking snake in my backyard told me the same thing.
I’m going to go talk to the bushes and the salt shaker and see if they tell me anything useful on this subject.[/quote]
And in the end times the mockers will come mocking, they shall do so at their own demise.
I don’t have to do that because I’ve already done it. I’ve researched this topic many times in the past. I’ve looked at the original Greek version and also ancient Hebrew. There is no basis for your position other than it’s a modern way to twist the scriptures in order to not feel pressure to not sin. If one simply fades away, how convenient.
Really, stop it.
[/quote]
Again, I am one that has been saying you have to do things to get “saved”, not just exist. Tell me please, what modern religion believes that there is no hell?[/quote]
What do you believe? How are you to be Saved? What does Saved mean to you? How do you get to heaven?
I am trying to be sincere here. No motivations. I really want to hear what you have to say about this. I derailed the discussion with a personal attack and I do apologize. Will you forgive me for my judgemental behavior?[/quote]
Of course I forgive you. If you would like to see what I believe, please reread some of my past beliefs. I list a lot of them on one of the posts.[/quote]
I do not think you ever touched on How a person gets to Heaven. We have been more hung up on there is no Hell, and Jesus was crucified on a stake.