The Christian Origin Of Christmas

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t really get the intent of this thread? Is it to prove that Christmas is Christian?

Anyhow, a few thoughts come to my mind at this time of year…

A personal question (more-so a conscience thing): Do any Christians out there feel “guilty” at Christmas and feel that things are a little “off”? Apart from the irony of atheists celebrating and making a big deal out of it, do you not feel it’s kind of shallow? More about Santa, snowmen, women dressing up in skimpy “Mrs Claus” outfits, decorations, stress, money, pretence of “kindness”, child bribery etc?[/quote]

Why would WE feel guilty about it? I attended a beautiful mass, listened to wonderful Christmas music, and got together with friends and family to celebrate an awe-inspiring event in our faith.

Christmas doesn’t break any principles for the Christian man or woman. I suppose if you’re a drunkard, fighting over air jordans in a store…But you probably then have bigger issues than honoring the intended object of Christmas (Christ’s birth).
[/quote]

In that case, let’s rephrase it a little; Does it bother you that people like that use it as their custom (as a front, disrespecting the holiness of it)?

It may be harder for someone to see where I’m coming from if their family/friends are deeply religious. But for those who have relatives/friends etc that aren’t in the slightest bit interested in Jesus, and blatantly show it, does it bother them to be associated with such an event as the average ‘Christian’ celebration?

22

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

I just think its funny how Christmas is a celebration of Jesus birth yet the date of his birth is nowhere to be found in the Bible[/quote]

But his birth is found…Hence, “a celebration of Jesus birth.”
[/quote]

What I mean is in the Bible there is a specific date to his death which can be traced to this day, its usually sometime in the spring if i remember right

There is no such thing though for his death[/quote]

Eh?

23

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t really get the intent of this thread? Is it to prove that Christmas is Christian?

Anyhow, a few thoughts come to my mind at this time of year…

A personal question (more-so a conscience thing): Do any Christians out there feel “guilty” at Christmas and feel that things are a little “off”? Apart from the irony of atheists celebrating and making a big deal out of it, do you not feel it’s kind of shallow? More about Santa, snowmen, women dressing up in skimpy “Mrs Claus” outfits, decorations, stress, money, pretence of “kindness”, child bribery etc?[/quote]

Why would WE feel guilty about it? I attended a beautiful mass, listened to wonderful Christmas music, and got together with friends and family to celebrate an awe-inspiring event in our faith.

Christmas doesn’t break any principles for the Christian man or woman. I suppose if you’re a drunkard, fighting over air jordans in a store…But you probably then have bigger issues than honoring the intended object of Christmas (Christ’s birth).
[/quote]

In that case, let’s rephrase it a little; Does it bother you that people like that use it as their custom (as a front, disrespecting the holiness of it)?

It may be harder for someone to see where I’m coming from if their family/friends are deeply religious. But for those who have relatives/friends etc that aren’t in the slightest bit interested in Jesus, and blatantly show it, does it bother them to be associated with such an event as the average ‘Christian’ celebration?[/quote]

Meh, you can tell a tree by it’s fruit. In the meantime, I’m too caught up in the awesomeness of the event being celebrated to consider that the neighbor down the street might be hosting strippers dressed as elves or Mrs. Claus. Me and mine are simply too fixed on the reason for the season. It’s their loss, and their sacrilegious behavior they’ll have to answer for. Not mine.

24

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

I just think its funny how Christmas is a celebration of Jesus birth yet the date of his birth is nowhere to be found in the Bible[/quote]

But his birth is found…Hence, “a celebration of Jesus birth.”
[/quote]

What I mean is in the Bible there is a specific date to his death which can be traced to this day, its usually sometime in the spring if i remember right

There is no such thing though for his death [/quote]

I think there’s a typo in there, you mean no such date for his birth?

True. Although I find it funny that more fuss in the world is made over his birth than his death (which he specifically told his disciples to observe, not his birth).

25

I’m not much of Christmas guy to be honest. It has no biblical mandate or prohibition and is hence left to the conscience of the believer to “do” or no. Certainly Christmas today is culturally speaking, one giant pagan flesh festival as my Watchtower buddy has here so rightly observed.

The God, whom absolute nonexistent nothingness obeys, giving forth everyTHING by the irrepressible fiat command of His limitless power, was born a manchild and fed at the breast of His human mother whom He Himself created. I bow before Him in grateful adoring worship EVERY day. Christmas is no different though I do celebrate the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us with a somewhat special emphasis.

God born a man, obeying His own law on my behalf, paying the penalty in my place as if He hadn’t and then knowing no sin of His own, death could not hold Him. The man Christ Jesus emerged from that grave victorious over sin and death on the third day, bringing every one of those given Him by the Father before the foundation of the world with Him. Oh my friends. Christmas or not. He has every bit of me for the rest of eternity.

26

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

I just think its funny how Christmas is a celebration of Jesus birth yet the date of his birth is nowhere to be found in the Bible[/quote]

But his birth is found…Hence, “a celebration of Jesus birth.”
[/quote]

What I mean is in the Bible there is a specific date to his death which can be traced to this day, its usually sometime in the spring if i remember right

There is no such thing though for his death [/quote]

I think there’s a typo in there, you mean no such date for his birth?

True. Although I find it funny that more fuss in the world is made over his birth than his death (which he specifically told his disciples to observe, not his birth).[/quote]

Yeah i fixed it lol.

And i aggree with that point 100%

27

We’re not celebrating a date, if that was the point. We’re celebrating an event. The date is a mere convenience and traditional.

28

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Certainly Christmas today is culturally speaking, one giant pagan flesh festival as my Watchtower buddy has here so rightly observed.

[/quote]

Aww, I feel privileged you still remembered me :slight_smile:

[quote]

The God, whom absolute nonexistent nothingness obeys, giving forth everyTHING by the irrepressible fiat command of His limitless power, was born a manchild and fed at the breast of His human mother whom He Himself created. I bow before Him in grateful adoring worship EVERY day. Christmas is no different though I do celebrate the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us with a somewhat special emphasis.

God born a man, obeying His own law on my behalf, paying the penalty in my place as if He hadn’t and then knowing no sin of His own, death could not hold Him. The man Christ Jesus emerged from that grave victorious over sin and death on the third day, bringing every one of those given Him by the Father before the foundation of the world with Him. Oh my friends. Christmas or not. He has every bit of me for the rest of eternity. [/quote]

I know where you’re coming from (kind of indifferent): like the apostle Paul said - “it’s just food” (whether it was sacrificed to idols or not, God created it and it’s good enough for me to eat).

But when it comes to things clearly religious and sacred (something the bible is quite clear about), is it not a different matter? A festival that’s turned “worldly/pagan”? After-all, Jesus said that his disciples were to be no part of the world (in the fleshly term). When he found those merchandising at the temple (being where they ought not to be and ripping people off), it infuriated him.

29

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

But when it comes to things clearly religious and sacred (something the bible is quite clear about), is it not a different matter? [/quote]

Not for the non-religious. For those of us who are religious, we celebrate the birth of Christ. And not, cheap shoes. THAT is their failure, not mine.

30

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Certainly Christmas today is culturally speaking, one giant pagan flesh festival as my Watchtower buddy has here so rightly observed.

[/quote]

Aww, I feel privileged you still remembered me :slight_smile:

[quote]

The God, whom absolute nonexistent nothingness obeys, giving forth everyTHING by the irrepressible fiat command of His limitless power, was born a manchild and fed at the breast of His human mother whom He Himself created. I bow before Him in grateful adoring worship EVERY day. Christmas is no different though I do celebrate the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us with a somewhat special emphasis.

God born a man, obeying His own law on my behalf, paying the penalty in my place as if He hadn’t and then knowing no sin of His own, death could not hold Him. The man Christ Jesus emerged from that grave victorious over sin and death on the third day, bringing every one of those given Him by the Father before the foundation of the world with Him. Oh my friends. Christmas or not. He has every bit of me for the rest of eternity. [/quote]

I know where you’re coming from (kind of indifferent): like the apostle Paul said - “it’s just food” (whether it was sacrificed to idols or not, God created it and it’s good enough for me to eat).

But when it comes to things clearly religious and sacred (something the bible is quite clear about), is it not a different matter? A festival that’s turned “worldly/pagan”? After-all, Jesus said that his disciples were to be no part of the world (in the fleshly term). When he found those merchandising at the temple (being where they ought not to be and ripping people off), it infuriated him.[/quote]Of course I remember you. These conversations I have here are not a game to me. (nor to you as I well know). You are God’s creature created in His image. I invested a bit of myself in you. I’m not gonna forget.

However, our church had no off ripping shysters in the temple of the Lord yesterday. Some folks I know DO NOT celebrate Christmas in any way though they love Jesus with their whole heart. Some folks do gifts and celebrate the incarnation of the most high God as a human baby on their behalf. NOBODY does Santa Claus.

The world is lost and drowning in sin. If there were no Christmas it still would be.

31

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Certainly Christmas today is culturally speaking, one giant pagan flesh festival as my Watchtower buddy has here so rightly observed.

[/quote]

Aww, I feel privileged you still remembered me :slight_smile:

Thank you for the kind words. I find your faith/conviction very inspiring and encouraging to see :slight_smile:

Does it bother you that so many Christians don’t seem to be united in their beliefs? You know, you can go to the same church and people all have quite different opinions…

32

[quote]its_just_me wrote:<<< Does it bother you that so many Christians don’t seem to be united in their beliefs? You know, you can go to the same church and people all have quite different opinions…[/quote]What bothers me is people who take the name of Jesus on their lips, the Lion of tribe of Judah and the holy spotless lamb of God as my avatar says, and show absolutely NO fruit of His work in their lives. They bring derision and reproach on my Father, Brother and Bridegroom. Our churches are full of those. I once was one. He took me over His knee with a paddle of mammoth proportions. (still is). It hurts, but I love Him for that too.

Our beliefs aren’t nearly as divergent as is falsely advertised.

33

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’m not much of Christmas guy to be honest. It has no biblical mandate or prohibition and is hence left to the conscience of the believer to “do” or no. Certainly Christmas today is culturally speaking, one giant pagan flesh festival as my Watchtower buddy has here so rightly observed.

The God, whom absolute nonexistent nothingness obeys, giving forth everyTHING by the irrepressible fiat command of His limitless power, was born a manchild and fed at the breast of His human mother whom He Himself created. I bow before Him in grateful adoring worship EVERY day. Christmas is no different though I do celebrate the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us with a somewhat special emphasis.

God born a man, obeying His own law on my behalf, paying the penalty in my place as if He hadn’t and then knowing no sin of His own, death could not hold Him. The man Christ Jesus emerged from that grave victorious over sin and death on the third day, bringing every one of those given Him by the Father before the foundation of the world with Him. Oh my friends. Christmas or not. He has every bit of me for the rest of eternity. [/quote]

Well said. I agree.

34

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas, and all of the pagan traditions that go along with it. [/quote]

x2 -

35

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas, and all of the pagan traditions that go along with it. [/quote]

x2 - [/quote]
x3 -

Sorry, I just had to know what it felt like to be this clever.

36

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

I just think its funny how Christmas is a celebration of Jesus birth yet the date of his birth is nowhere to be found in the Bible[/quote]

But his birth is found…Hence, “a celebration of Jesus birth.”

[quote]

I don’t think even the really loony conservative Christians think its his actual birthday. More of a recognition or remembrance/celebration of the event in general. Interestingly though, it really comes from ancient traditions commonly accepted Roman ones but if you delve deeper it goes back to Babylonian traditions among others. Essentially the Christians at the time chose to “keep the peace” by integrating their stories and holidays with pre-existing ones as to not rock the boat so much.

What I mean is in the Bible there is a specific date to his death which can be traced to this day, its usually sometime in the spring if i remember right

There is no such thing though for his birth[/quote]