The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

They believe that Jesus Christ lived a perfect life and atoned for the sins of all mankind. That’s pretty Christian don’t you think?[/quote]They belive that God the Father, His son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are 3 gods. They belive that God the father begat the son by physical intercourse and that the father was once a man and now lives on the planet Kolob physically siring the preexistent souls that are now waitng for bodies here. That’s with all of his wives that he was married to in his mortal life in his temple before he became a god who was… and so on and so on. Think I’m kiddin? THAT’S JUST FOR BARE STARTERS. Whatever in the name of all that’s holy that is? It ain’t Christian.[/quote]

First, yes, they believe God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings that make up the godhead. Each has a role, but are one in purpose. But they are not equal (e.g., the Holy Ghost is not equal to the Father). Do you have any proof that they are the same person? Jesus often spoke of his Father as if he was a separate and distinct being.

Second, Mormons don’t believe that physical intercourse was involved in Jesus’s birth. They believe in the virgin birth.

Third, Mormons do not teach that God was a man like us. Previous statements were made by Joseph Smith that God had dwelt on the earth at one time like Jesus did. However, they don’t believe that God was ever just like us or that he ever sinned.

More confusion is added because of the Mormon belief of deification. Others take that to mean that Mormons think they will one day be God’s equal which is not the case. They will always be subject to him and always worship him.

Many misconceptions about the Mormon church come from statements made by someone in the Mormon Church in the past, but which are not official church doctrine. Remember, Mormons do not believe that apostles and prophets are infallible. Often, people make a big deal of certain statements that were made in the past, but fail to realize that they are not part of official church doctrine.

[quote]eraserhead wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

They believe that Jesus Christ lived a perfect life and atoned for the sins of all mankind. That’s pretty Christian don’t you think?[/quote]They belive that God the Father, His son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are 3 gods. They belive that God the father begat the son by physical intercourse and that the father was once a man and now lives on the planet Kolob physically siring the preexistent souls that are now waitng for bodies here. That’s with all of his wives that he was married to in his mortal life in his temple before he became a god who was… and so on and so on. Think I’m kiddin? THAT’S JUST FOR BARE STARTERS. Whatever in the name of all that’s holy that is? It ain’t Christian.[/quote]
I don’t know if you’ve seen this before. Take a look at the occult and pagan symbolism surrounding Mormonism:

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-temple-square-utah/[/quote]

LOL. So people outside the LDS church should decide what the meaning is behind Mormon symbolism?

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Inverted_Stars_on_LDS_Temples

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/temple_symbols.htm

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Often, people make a big deal of certain statements that were made in the past, but fail to realize that they are not part of official church doctrine.[/quote]I’m not gettin into it here, but trust me friend. I forgot more about your church than you will likely ever know as arrogant as that unavoidably sounds. I learned everything from your own sources that I once owned a very substantial library of. Like I say. Whatever in the name of all that’s Holy that is? It ain’t Christian. Believe what you want, but it will not be passed off as anything even distantly related to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do not take what I’m saying as an indication of some personal hostility toward you. I don’t know you, even from this site, but you are in a fatally heretical idolatrous anti Christian cult that will insure the damnation of your soul if you do not forsake it and turn to the God who alone is mighty to save. And I ain’t talkin about no “telestial kingdom” either my friend.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

I’m not gettin into it here, but trust me friend. I forgot more about your church than you will likely ever know as arrogant as that unavoidably sounds. I learned everything from your own sources that I once owned a very substantial library of. Like I say. Whatever in the name of all that’s Holy that is? It ain’t Christian. Believe what you want, but it will not be passed off as anything even distantly related to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do not take what I’m saying as an indication of some personal hostility toward you. I don’t know you, even from this site, but you are in a fatally heretical idolatrous anti Christian cult that will insure the damnation of your soul if you do not forsake it and turn to the God who alone is mighty to save. And I ain’t talkin about no “telestial kingdom” either my friend. [/quote]

C’mon dude, really? We are an anti-Christian cult? Like I said, most of your sources are most likely things that aren’t even part of official church doctrine. And don’t worry about my salvation buddy. We differ from other religions about who Christ is. But Mormons accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Joseph Smith said,
“The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”

Yes, a satanic anti Christian propagator of a false Jesus and a false gospel which the apostle Paul called accursed. Joseph Smith Jr. was a masterful liar and Your first presidency and quorum of 12 are demonic deceivers who knowingly proclaim the fantastic con job of that EXTREMELY talented charlatan/whore and his despotic successor.

You differ from Christ about who Christ is and don’t bother with any of your semantic niceties. I know the tricks bub. I spent months with your missionaries and came to be genuine friends with Elders Havens and Melville especially. I even called them elder =] These 2 were not jacks either, they were bosom burning believers all the way. You will teach me exactly nothing about your church or her doctrine. You’re being lied to. Come out of her and beg forgiveness of the living Christ whose name and person you have dishonored by your communion with that evil pagan abomination.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Yes, a satanic anti Christian propagator of a false Jesus and a false gospel which the apostle Paul called accursed. Joseph Smith Jr. was a masterful liar and Your first presidency and quorum of 12 are demonic deceivers who knowingly proclaim the fantastic con job of that EXTREMELY talented charlatan/whore and his despotic successor.

You differ from Christ about who Christ is and don’t bother with any of your semantic niceties. I know the tricks bub. I spent months with your missionaries and came to be genuine friends with Elders Havens and Melville especially. I even called them elder =] These 2 were not jacks either, they were bosom burning believers all the way. You will teach me exactly nothing about your church or her doctrine. You’re being lied to. Come out of her and beg forgiveness of the living Christ whose name and person you have dishonored by your communion with that evil pagan abomination. [/quote]

Hahahaha. So let me get this straight, the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 are demonic deceivers huh? So they are somehow deceiving people about Christ by testifying about His divinity and proclaiming Him as the Only Begotten and Savior of the world? Is that really what you are claiming? LOL. You are too much. If they are deceivers, they aren’t doing a very good job of it.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< If they are deceivers, they aren’t doing a very good job of it. >>.[/quote]Not for true believers they aren’t. Go ahead n try n rope somebody else in with this chief. It will not work on me. They are liars because their father is the father of lies. They do not mean anything even remotely similar to what THE true church of Jesus Christ means by anything they say which makes perfect sense. Because in that grove of woods in 1820 the “personages” told young Joseph that all the churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination and all the professors were corrupt (not bad from memory huh?). So all the churches all the doctrine and all the people went right out the door from the first second of your churches existence. No wonder absolutely nothing you actually believe is, despite what your lying leaders assert, in line with historic Christianity in even the vaguest manner.

Again I say, repent, forsake the bondage of your idols and live free in the one true and living Christ. The eternally begotten Son of the Father, neither dividing the substance nor confusing the persons. Look, I have nothing but compassion for you pal and wish nothing other than you become my brother in Christ and that cannot happen until God, the Holy Spirit frees your mind to see that you have grown up in a lie. It would be unloving and just plain wrong of me not to tell you that. If you ever dared look seriously into your church’s history it would be laughable to you once the heartbreaking realization that most of the people you care about are also living a satanic lie had been brought into subjection to the God who is actually there. I understand this whole deal my friend. You have run into somebody who really does this time. I don’t say any of this to get your goat or to be mean at all. You are the latest in a growing list of people here who just refuse to believe that I have been though all this many times, long before there even was a ubiquitous internet, nevermind this site.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< If they are deceivers, they aren’t doing a very good job of it. >>.[/quote]Not for true believers they aren’t. Go ahead n try n rope somebody else in with this chief. It will not work on me. They are liars because their father is the father of lies. They do not mean anything even remotely similar to what THE true church of Jesus Christ means by anything they say which makes perfect sense. Because in that grove of woods in 1820 the “personages” told young Joseph that all the churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination and all the professors were corrupt (not bad from memory huh?). So all the churches all the doctrine and all the people went right out the door from the first second of your churches existence. No wonder absolutely nothing you actually believe is, despite what your lying leaders assert, in line with historic Christianity in even the vaguest manner.

Again I say, repent, forsake the bondage of your idols and live free in the one true and living Christ. The eternally begotten Son of the Father, neither dividing the substance nor confusing the persons. Look, I have nothing but compassion for you pal and wish nothing other than you become my brother in Christ and that cannot happen until God, the Holy Spirit frees your mind to see that you have grown up in a lie. It would be unloving and just plain wrong of me not to tell you that. If you ever dared look seriously into your church’s history it would be laughable to you once the heartbreak of realizing that most of the people you care about are also living a satanic lie had been brought into subjection to the God who is actually there. I understand this whole deal my friend. You have run into somebody who really does this time. I don’t say any of this to get your goat or to be mean at all. You are the latest in a growing list of people here who just refuse to believe that I have been though all this many times, long before there even was a ubiquitous internet, nevermind this site.

[/quote]

Yeah, get with the program already. God spoke to Calvin and his dozens of really smart men who spent a whole four years figuring out who Jesus really is. It took several hundred years for god to get around to revealing the true Jesus and saving the world from the evils of Catholicism, but he had better things to do during that time, and at least he did it eventually.

God has spoken to Tiribulus, so he can’t possibly have spoken to you because, um…you disagree with him.

That was pathetic elder forlife. I really did think you would be first to chime in here between us (I really did), but not like this. Geeez, there is a very plausible and superficially powerful argument against me sitting right there locked and loaded in front of you and this what you hit me with? I am disappointed I must say. I hope I don’t don’t have to debate myself for you now.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< If they are deceivers, they aren’t doing a very good job of it. >>.[/quote]Not for true believers they aren’t. Go ahead n try n rope somebody else in with this chief. It will not work on me. They are liars because their father is the father of lies. They do not mean anything even remotely similar to what THE true church of Jesus Christ means by anything they say which makes perfect sense. Because in that grove of woods in 1820 the “personages” told young Joseph that all the churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination and all the professors were corrupt (not bad from memory huh?). So all the churches all the doctrine and all the people went right out the door from the first second of your churches existence. No wonder absolutely nothing you actually believe is, despite what your lying leaders assert, in line with historic Christianity in even the vaguest manner.

Again I say, repent, forsake the bondage of your idols and live free in the one true and living Christ. The eternally begotten Son of the Father, neither dividing the substance nor confusing the persons. Look, I have nothing but compassion for you pal and wish nothing other than you become my brother in Christ and that cannot happen until God, the Holy Spirit frees your mind to see that you have grown up in a lie. It would be unloving and just plain wrong of me not to tell you that. If you ever dared look seriously into your church’s history it would be laughable to you once the heartbreaking realization that most of the people you care about are also living a satanic lie had been brought into subjection to the God who is actually there. I understand this whole deal my friend. You have run into somebody who really does this time. I don’t say any of this to get your goat or to be mean at all. You are the latest in a growing list of people here who just refuse to believe that I have been though all this many times, long before there even was a ubiquitous internet, nevermind this site.
[/quote]

You think I’m some poor sap who never knew anything else in life, right? Yes, I was raised Mormon. There weren’t many other Mormons in my town growing up. As a young teenager I started drifting away from the church. Eventually I started to think that my parents had good intentions but I just didn’t think the LDS church was right. I stayed away from all religion for a while. Years later when I found out I was going to be a father I decided I needed to figure how he was going to be raised. I did a lot of research. I even read anti-Mormon websites.

I felt an emptiness throughout this process and something kept telling me that something was missing. I decided to give the LDS church another shot. I’m not sure why exactly, I just felt something pulling me that way. I began reading the Book of Mormon, praying, and going to church. Throughout the last decade or so of my return to the church my testimony has grown stronger and stronger. I gained a lot of knowledge; most importantly, that Jesus Christ died for me. He descended below all things. He took on all of our pain and sorrow, and through Him we can be healed through the power of the Atonement. There would be no hope without His grace, mercy, and love.

I feel bad for you. Have you ever listened to or read what the prophet and apostles in our church teach? Go read some of the recent general conference talks.

http://lds.org/general-conference/conferences?lang=eng

They talk of Christ and His Atonement, they speak of repentance, service, charity, the Holy Ghost, and the love of our Heavenly Father. They warn us of Satan and the traps he uses to lead us into sin and away from Christ.

Remember, a house divided against itself cannot stand. How can you claim that Satan is behind our church when we preach for the cause of Christ and against Satan? Your argument is ridiculous. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”

You can rail against my church all you want. But don’t feel sorry for me. I’m not some sucker who simply never took the time to think that I might be wrong. I came back and remain a member of the LDS church because of what it has done for me. The truth given to me through the power of the Holy Ghost has increased my faith in Jesus Christ and made me a better father, husband, neighbor, and friend; just a better man period.

VERY GOOD! I think Elder Havens was still a bit better though. Great Testimony, seriously. The trouble is your Jesus doesn’t exist and Satan is more than happy to have you and anyone else passionately testifying of absolutely ANY jesus imaginable except the one gloriously exalted in the pages of His word.

I’m gonna go ahead and help elder forlife out a bit by asking you a question to which you will give me some version of the LDS answer and maybe he’ll have a hint.

How do you know that Joseph Smith was a prophet God used to “restore” the one true church to the earth and that the angel Moroni gave him golden plates conveying the book of Mormon which is a true witness of Jesus Christ written in “reformed Egyptian” through which “a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than any other book.”? How?

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Remember, a house divided against itself cannot stand. How can you claim that Satan is behind our church when we preach for the cause of Christ and against Satan? Your argument is ridiculous. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” >>>[/quote] You are IN Satans house. There is no division. He doesn’t care what anybody believes or does as long he gets to lead them to hell. He loves to have religious people talking about Jesus even more than rank, perverse God deny pagans running violent and naked through the streets. The devil disguises himself as an “angel of light” 2nd Cor. 11:4.

He doesn’t always show up all hideous and terrifying. Many times he looks like a couple fine clean cut upright young men smiling n friendly carrying a message of death. He will help you himself become a “better” father, husband, neighbor, and friend; just a better man period, if that’s what he thinks will most effectively keep you in bondage and it looks like in your case he’s been right so far. My heart and my hand go out to you man. I mean that, Let’s see what elder forlife says.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
VERY GOOD! I think Elder Havens was still a bit better though. Great Testimony, seriously. The trouble is your Jesus doesn’t exist and Satan is more than happy to have you and anyone else passionately testifying of absolutely ANY jesus imaginable except the one gloriously exalted in the pages of His word.

I’m gonna go ahead and help elder forlife out a bit by asking you a question to which you will give me some version of the LDS answer and maybe he’ll have a hint.

How do you know that Joseph Smith was a prophet God used to “restore” the one true church to the earth and that the angel Moroni gave him golden plates conveying the book of Mormon which is a true witness of Jesus Christ written in “reformed Egyptian”? How?
[/quote]

Probably the same way that you know the Bible to be word of God. Faith, prayer, and the witness of the Holy Spirit.

Now let me ask you something Trib. What is required for a man to get to heaven?

Just to add some “politics” to the discussion.

Tiribulus…don’t ever be “confused” again as to why I feel that Romney nor Huntsman will never, ever get the GOP nomination for President, okay?

(Or was that Zeb? If it was; all he need do is read this thread, and he’ll know why…)

Carry on.

Mufasa

Lemme ask you. What is heaven?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Lemme ask you. What is heaven?[/quote]

I want you to use your own belief/definition for your answer.

[quote]Mufasa wrote: Just to add some “politics” to the discussion. >>>[/quote]Ok, now I’m gonna throw ya a curve. Given the choices today I would have no problem voting for a committed mormon all other things being equal. In other words, them being LDS would not disqualify them in itself. They are socially and politically conservative and patriotic to the core. At least in generations past they have been first in line to die defending this country. I would never take that away from them.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote: Just to add some “politics” to the discussion. >>>[/quote]Ok, now I’m gonna throw ya a curve. Given the choices today I would have no problem voting for a committed mormon all other things being equal. In other words, them being LDS would not disqualify them in itself. They are socially and politically conservative and patriotic to the core. At least in generations past they have been first in line to die defending this country. I would never take that away from them.
[/quote]

Now THAT confuses me, Tiribulus.

The “worst” thing for the country EVER was to have a Kenyan Born Socialist Community Organizer elected as President…yet you would vote for individuals who cavort with Satan himself???

Again…I’m confused…

Mufasa

[quote]super saiyan wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Lemme ask you. What is heaven?[/quote]<<< I want you to use your own belief/definition for your answer.[/quote]I need sleep dude. I may or may not be able to answer more fully tomorrow. I do not mean to give the impression that you or your views are not worth my time friend. I truly do not mean it that way. However, these things do not lend themselves, at least from my side, to two sentence answers. For now if you’re really interested, in my view the Westminster Confession of Faith (and catechisms) of 1646 are the purest, most exceedingly biblical non directly inspired works of Christian doctrine ever. 301 redirect You can be pretty sure I’m on board with the big stuff there. I promise you will not be. Please take a look. Concise and PREcise utterly jam packed yet relatively short statements of theology.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote: Just to add some “politics” to the discussion. >>>[/quote]Ok, now I’m gonna throw ya a curve. Given the choices today I would have no problem voting for a committed mormon all other things being equal. In other words, them being LDS would not disqualify them in itself. They are socially and politically conservative and patriotic to the core. At least in generations past they have been first in line to die defending this country. I would never take that away from them.
[/quote]

Now THAT confuses me, Tiribulus.

The “worst” thing for the country EVER was to have a Kenyan Born Socialist Community Organizer elected as President…yet you would vote for individuals who cavort with Satan himself???

Again…I’m confused…

Mufasa[/quote]Everybody “cavorts with Satan himself” until redeemed in Christ Mufasa. False religions simply serve to keep them that way. Given the political choice between pagans I’ll take a Mormon over Obama any day. Obama hates the nation he is president of and is actively seeking to do her ill. That would not be true of a devout mormon of which Romney is not one anyway. The GOP deserves what’s comin if they do not wake up. I’m not goin there now.

Got it.

Thanks for your answer, Tiribulus.

Mufasa