Ok personal bro science…
I think seated Behind the neck press builds a shit ton of shoulder size and strength.
If your mechanics allows it and your smart about it.
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You need to know the origin of bro-science as it pertained to the effect on muscles by weight training.
Throughout all the 1950’s weight lifting was engaged by a small esoteric group of men. This followed deep into the 1960’s.
The bro-science of those days can summarized in a simple, comprehensive sentence: “Weight lifting makes you muscle bound.”
In my years attending NC State University (1966-1970), I only knew of two football players who lifted weights. One was Chuck Amato, who was also the conference wrestling champion most of the years he competed in wrestling. He had a fellow linebacker who was his workout partner in the weight room, which they shared with us common students. The football team did not have a weight room.
So, the bro-science driving the small esoteric group was “somewhat” captured in a few different magazines and word of mouth. Ironman was the most credible for workout information for the typical weight lifter. It focused on the basic compound movements. Weider, Lurie, and Hoffman though somewhat helpful were pragmatically selling magazines and protein products. These focused on getting eyeballs.
Most every lifter that I knew in the early 1970’s started in college, as I did. It seemed as our numbers grew, bro-science became our only science. Your family doctor would prescribe Dianabol if you wanted. Bro-science affirmed Dianabol as a great muscle builder. The best workout programs included the basic compound movements. Most all the Weider Principles were interesting and some helpful, but only provided you had built a good foundation to build upon.
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I am in full agreement on the seated behind the neck press.
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“Bro science thread”
This is a haven for lunacy.
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What is your estimation on how much less a typical trainee does behind the neck press vs “regular” press? 80-90% of regular press?
I always lift much lighter weights with BTN press in comparison to my overhead and always wonder if I should push more and just fight through the discomfort. It’s not really discomfort for me it’s just an odd feeling in my shoulders that gives me pause going any heavier.
However when I go light I feel like I am not doing anything useful that I can’t get better results from regular pressing.
My bro-science point of view is that there is a minimum weight / intensity that must be achieved to drive progress and it’s far higher than “as low as 30% of 1RM” I keep hearing science talk about. My impression is that weights much below 50% of a 1RM are not going to do a whole lot even if you do them for 50-100reps. Basically doing pushdowns with a rubber band will only get you so far before it’s useless.
In spite of though… that’s to say even people doing a bunch of sub optimal training protocols often do enough of the right ones to make progress
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I never paid much attention to other lifters apart from who we called The Great White Rhino. He was our 242lb Powerlifter. I have no idea what he could “regular” OH press. But I watched with gaping eyes him do quite a few reps (more than 5) seated behind the neck press with 315lbs. His best (raw) Bench Press was only 455lbs. (800+ lb raw squat)
As for myself, I only did standing front press until I joined a gym that had a seated behind the neck press bench. I was doing sets of 8 reps in the standing front press with 205lbs, but was arching my back much more than I liked, so I dropped them completely in favor of the seated behind the neck press. Which within four or five months I was doing sets of 8 reps with 205lbs.
The lateral head of my deltoids really responded to the improved tension, due what I think is a slightly more controlled negative because my torso was anchored, not to mention the more direct work on the lateral head.
I never felt any discomfort, but know that I only lowered the bar to just below my ears.
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Thanks that helps
Where did you come across us not being able to target fibre types? One of the main implications of the henneman size principle for motor unit activation is that low RPE reps train slower fibres, and high RPE reps train faster fibres
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Love it. I’d argue the proportion of folks not seeing results on bro splits will be similar on any other split.
Bro take: you have to do direct arm work for them to grow.
Yeah thats been my experience with them also.
Not sure when the hell they became so damn evil in the gym community.
I recall as a kid… articles talking about Ted Arcidi put up 400lbs… Coan also. Not to mention the Barbarian Brothers back in the day going to town on them.
I hear you like to throw babies out with the bathwater.
Jones had the right idea, but wrong application, and applied bad business tactics.
Mentzer had the right idea, right application, then the meth took over and he took it too far. Training once every 2 weeks is not effective, but training to failure - is.
Does Dorian Yates not count?
Do we only qualify success by the metric of the most genetically blessed and chemically enhanced?
Thats like saying “credit score is useless because Elon Musk doesn’t use it”.
Ending a thoroughly bad faith remark with “take care” is a shithead move. You’re better than that.
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An example of how bro-science has evolved.
In the late 1970’s everyone lifting weights was doing bench press and all kinds of arm work. That’s the only reason they were lifting.
Then the bro-science was: “Arms aren’t growing? Better start Squatting!”
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Dr Mike
Greg Nukols
“There’s just not clear evidence that training in specific ways will lead to preferential growth of Type 1 or Type 2 muscle fibers.”
Training Based On Muscle Fiber Type: Are You Missing Out?
Schoenfeld
“a recent review by Grgic & Schoenfeld (2018) concluded there is insufficient data to make strong conclusions regarding fiber type hypertrophy and different loading schemes”
Layne Norton
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This should be the spirit of every real gym.
The Squat
Down this road, in a gym far away,
A young man was heard to say,
“No matter what I do, my legs won’t grow.”
He tried leg extensions, leg curls, and leg presses, too.
Trying to cheat, these sissy squats he’d do.
From the corner of the gym where the big men train,
Through a cloud of chalk and the midst of pain,
Where the noise is made with big Forty-Fives,
A deep voice bellowed as he wrapped his knees.
A very big man with legs like trees.
Laughing as he snatched another plate from the stack,
Chalking his hands and a monstrous bark,
Said, “Boy, stop lying and don’t say you’ve forgotten,
The trouble with you is you ain’t been,
SQUATTIN’.”
Now that is bro-science that no science will replace.
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tbh, outside of sport or task-specific training - it seems like the only kind of muscle fiber we’d ever want to train is fast twitch.
Or maybe I’m just projecting because anything high-rep makes me want to die 
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If your only PED’s are AAS, this is true.
Introduce HGH and insulin and the slow twitch muscles come into play.
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Is this bro science or science-science?
I know cursory information, but have not read up on insulin or HGH as I believe I need to have a better understanding of AAS and nutrition before going warp speed.
What have you heard?
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I don’t now how much it’s worth but Dorian Yates admitted that insulin ruined is abs in the later years of his reign…
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I will counter this with:
Arms need no direct work. They will grown the most from doing zero direct arm work but lots of heavy pressing and pulling.
To develop your calves just run 40km a week for 5 years or get really really fat.
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