He does have, it’s about the insulin spike, eating the carbs as the first part of the meal will spike the carbs out to the muscles faster.
When eating outside of training start with the proteins that way the carbs gets more evenly out, making you feel fuller for longer.
That is the theory at least.
If you train in the morning eat your oats before the eggs, if you plan on training later throughout the day, then eggs first then oats. Hope it makes sense,
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Thanks, man.
So, pre- and post-training (ex: 1 hour before lift, right after lift): start with carbs, then protein.
Other meals: start with protein, then carbs/fat.
Do I have that right?
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Yep, @mortdk nailed it. I picked up the carb thing when I was reading about the glycemic index. The GI number assigned to food represents how much it will spike your blood sugar. Simply eating protein before carbs can reduce the impact. I want to reduce my insulin spikes (the response to that blood sugar increase) except at training time.
You want to spike those things after training because the sugar/insulin help transport nutrients to the muscle.
You also want carbs before a workout so they’re quickly absorbed and able to be used for energy during the workout.
I went to clarify that you don’t have to eat before and after training. Dr Brad Schoenfeld is kind of the guru for hypertrophy training (muscle growth). This applies to cutting too. The research seems to show that we need to eat every four hours to keep protein synthesis going.
40 grams of protein has proven to be better than 20 grams so I try to eat 40-50 grams of protein per meal and not go more than four hours between meals. My carb and fat numbers are just split evenly.
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That’s a super helpful explanation of how insulin/the GI index works. I’ve never really understood it before. Now I do. Thanks, man!
I’m familiar with Dr. Schoenfeld; he’s quite a resource. Why would you say bodybuilders stick to the ‘eat before/after training’ rule if it’s not necessary? Just because it’s what people have always done?
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It’s good to have fuel going in to a workout. The body can use carbs in your stomach a lot easier than the glycogen stored in your muscles and liver.
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It’s not wrong. I think people are going to be slow to adopt the four hour window results. If they ate breakfast at 0600 and trained for 90 minutes starting at 0930 then they’ll be 5 hours away from the last meal. No one wants to risk missing out on potential gains by 30-60 minutes, right? Eating a little to fuel the upcoming workout and then eating immediately afterwards isn’t wrong. It’s going to get the results we all hope to achieve by feeding the muscles protein and other nutrients.
Eating a little before a session and then waiting two hours to eat goes against the accepted norms for food timing. Research says we’ll be fine but no one wants to risk it. Also, I don’t know about you but I’m usually hungry after I train. 
Today I plan to have a protein bar that’s 280 calories and has about 20g of protein before I train and then I’ll eat my normal sized lunch immediately following.
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Oh, I’m the same, man! I’m always ravished for some food after a good lift. Out of curiosity, how many g of carbs are in your protein bar, and what constitutes your normal lunch? I’ve been shooting for about 40-50 carbs preworkout and 40-50 after, with 25-40 protein in each meal.
@bkb333 @Frank_C
I like everything that was discussed above but wanted to add in one thing. You asked about eating before bed… I think eating something right before bed is a good idea. I have a shake each night around 10pm. Casin protein is the slowest digesting protein so it’s the best. I’m cheap so don’t buy it and simply use the whey I already have.
Looking at 1850 calories and plugging it into my fitness pal gave me a real reminder of how little food that is. Are you sure 2300 is maintenance for you? I did the first 8,weeks of my cut at 2400 calories and was around 1850 right there at the very end. My macro split was slightly different so you’ll get a few more carbs and fat, but it’s still pretty restricted.
I’d do egg whites, a whole egg, and oats in the morning, brown rice, lean meat and veggies, throughout the day, veggies and lean meat for dinner, or salad with fat free dressing.
I’d also try to get 2-4 scoops of whey in there. One after breakfast, one pre workout, one post workout, and one before bed. Having a quick digesting, and slow digesting protein is a little easier on your stomach IMO.
I am the same with whey/casein – too cheap, haha. I’m gonna do the bedtime shake. You mix anything else in there (almond/skim milk, maybe), or just whey and water?
Yeah, I hang pretty steady around 175 lbs and 11.5-12% BF at 2300 calories. I wish my metabolism were faster. I would lose weight, though, if I ate 2000 – it’s just a matter of how fast I’d lose it, and whether I’d hit my goal of dropping from 12-8% in 8 weeks. Do you think starting with a 300 cal deficit (eventually scaling, in all likelihood) would get me there?
I like just about everything in your prescriptions for meals, though I prefer white rice. Any favorite fat-free dressings? I’m doing my shopping tomorrow and excited to get this party started!
I do. 1 scoop chocolate whey, 2 cups unsweetened vanilla almond milk, 2 tbsp PB2 powered peanut butter, 1/3 package sugar free cheesecake pudding mix, 2 squirts stevia, 2 tbsp dat free whipped topping. Blend with ice. It’s fantastic.
Most likely. A bigger deficit will get you there faster but you will be more miserable and at slightly more risk of eating some muscle.
Not sure on the brand as my wife does the groceries but I like the fat free Italian dressing. The fat free ranch gets this gross texture that I can’t do.
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I eat Clif Builder’s Protein bars because I’m cheap. I can get an 18 pack at Sam’s for about $20. The box has chocolate mint and peanut butter chocolate in it. The chocolate mint one has 280 cals, 20g protein, 30g carbs (22g sugar but good ingredients so I don’t care), and 9g of fat. It’s definitely a pre-workout bar with all that stuff packed into it.
Lunch today is going to be about 5 oz of chicken breast, 250g of mashed potatoes, and 160g of veggies. Yes, I mix and match my measurements. It’s because most labels have a serving like 1/4 of a cup but in parentheses it’ll show grams. I can actually measure grams on my scale; 1/4 of a cup - way harder.
That’ll be a small lunch in terms of calories but I’ll get my protein. If I have enough calories left tonight then I’ll be able to eat a cheeseburger!
I like to shoot for 40-50 grams of protein and 40-60 grams of carbs around training. More is fine; less isn’t ideal.
I completely forgot to answer this part. I like to eat in the evening if I have calories left. Carbs can improve mood and comfort and they don’t have a negative effect on you just because you go to bed soon after eating them. Now I’m not going to eat a bunch of junk sugar, but a bowl of oatmeal treats me pretty well. Referring back to the glycemic index, oatmeal is on the lower end of carb sources so it’s a good choice at that point in the day. I’ll even stir some vegan protein powder into it so I get both carbs and protein. It tastes good, makes me feel good, and I actually seem to have good numbers on the scale the next day.
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Not the most accurate way but a cup is around 8oz with fairly dense food like meat, mashed potatoes.
Walden Farms makes a whole line of calorie-free dressings, toppings, etc… As expected some taste flat out gross but the Ranch and Blue Cheese are pretty good, and the chocolate syrup is fantastic…and calorie free! Lots of different kinds to experiment with. I just ignore all the extra processing that probably had to be done. Having that extra flavor and no calories went a long way helping me feel satisfied with lighter meals like salad and a meat. They are not always easy to find but luckily this random local farmers market near me carries the whole line.
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That’s exactly how I feel about it, bro
I used to have those ones, too, actually, but stopped because of the sugar. My recent favorite has been Oatmega, which I’ve only found at Target, but has amazing ingredients, good macros, and a very solid price – and tastes awesome!
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That sounds incredible. Do you happen to know the rough cals/macros offhand?
I actually have a bunch of clothes I need to donate because I don’t fit in them anymore. Not sad! A couple of them lend themselves nicely to a tighter fit though, so I’ll need help from my GF to decide what stays and what goes.
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Never seen that before. Incredible.