The Best Multi-Vitamin?

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Can anybody show me proof that these multi-vitamins are actually being absorbed by the body? I’ve read mult-vit are basically useless and expensive piss. [/quote]

heh. You can’t have it both ways. Either it ain’t being absorbed by the body (in which case it goes out with the…solid wastes) or it gets excreted producing expensive urine (of course that ignores any benefits your kidneys, ureters and bladder receive).

Anyway absorption (for most nutrients) ain’t an issue for any decent brand.

[quote]bikemike wrote:
I received a masters degree in foods and nutrition twelve years ago. I’m the first guy to admit that that’s a long time when it comes to scientific knowledge.
[/quote]

I read through a load of your posts and you don’t have much of a clue what you are on about.

You are giving them a bad name in that case.

[quote]bikemike wrote:
When somebody rebuts somebody elses post with no references or credentials of their own, they have no more authority than the original poster.[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=921182&pageNo=0#921999

I’m not writing it all out again.

Furthermore are you freely admitting that anything you have posted like your excellent nutritional advice you have no more authority than the original poster too ?

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
I like Flintstones 'cause they taste good:-)[/quote]

Too chalky. Gummy Vites are better.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Can anybody show me proof that these multi-vitamins are actually being absorbed by the body? I’ve read mult-vit are basically useless and expensive piss.

The green suppliments I take are proven to be good for you: Jarrows Chlorella and Earthrise Organic Spirulina. [/quote]

Precisely my point - the green powders are REAL FOOD, not of the synthetic powder variety that do not get absorbed optimally or at all. I took Mega Man from GNC for a while and had the most vivid yellow urine 30 minutes later. I didn’t know if my kidneys were failing or if I was excreting radioactive waste! Nothing out of the ordinary happens after consuming the Greens Today… except that I feel good. Sorry, no references for this study - just the “piss test.” :wink:

TopSirloin

[quote]bikemike wrote:
I received a masters degree in foods and nutrition twelve years ago. I’m the first guy to admit that that’s a long time when it comes to scientific knowledge.

I’m not working in this field, so everything “modern” that I’ve learned has come from Drs. Berardi and Lowery.

When somebody rebuts somebody elses post with no references or credentials of their own, they have no more authority than the original poster.[/quote]

Bikemike,

I’m a huge fan of Dr.'s Lowery and Berardi, et al, however to only rely on this site, especially after you have a higher education degree in THIS field, is doing yourself a major disservice. I have an engineering degree and know that childrens multi’s are crap… you should know that by now, even if only reading Lonnie and Berardi.

Further, not all of us are scientists and make our living providing you with a bibliography after every single post! IMO, our main duty when we interact on T-Nation is to learn, do, teach… or at least stay open minded and present our opinions. But they DO NOT have to be referenced for them to be valid.

I encourage you to consider this: wouldn’t you think a “green powder” that is actually a standardized “food” is more readily absorbed/utilized by the body just by using common sense, if not your degree? Second, take some time and research the subject yourself. I think you will find, in time, that the closer you get to a whole food-based multi the better the value.

TopSirloin

[quote]TeeVee69 wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
I like Flintstones 'cause they taste good:-)

Too chalky. Gummy Vites are better.[/quote]

Are you kidding me…

Why don’t you just get regular gummy worms and save your kidneys some trouble…

TS

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
oboffill wrote:
Can anybody show me proof that these multi-vitamins are actually being absorbed by the body? I’ve read mult-vit are basically useless and expensive piss.

The green suppliments I take are proven to be good for you: Jarrows Chlorella and Earthrise Organic Spirulina.

Precisely my point - the green powders are REAL FOOD, not of the synthetic powder variety that do not get absorbed optimally or at all. I took Mega Man from GNC for a while and had the most vivid yellow urine 30 minutes later. I didn’t know if my kidneys were failing or if I was excreting radioactive waste! Nothing out of the ordinary happens after consuming the Greens Today… except that I feel good. Sorry, no references for this study - just the “piss test.” :wink:

TopSirloin[/quote]

The lumo piss is the riboflavin being expelled. I think Riboflavin means something like yellow-sugar or something like that in Latin, not exactly sure of the origin of the name.

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
bikemike wrote:
I received a masters degree in foods and nutrition twelve years ago. I’m the first guy to admit that that’s a long time when it comes to scientific knowledge.

I’m not working in this field, so everything “modern” that I’ve learned has come from Drs. Berardi and Lowery.

When somebody rebuts somebody elses post with no references or credentials of their own, they have no more authority than the original poster.

Bikemike,

I’m a huge fan of Dr.'s Lowery and Berardi, et al, however to only rely on this site, especially after you have a higher education degree in THIS field, is doing yourself a major disservice. I have an engineering degree and know that childrens multi’s are crap… you should know that by now, even if only reading Lonnie and Berardi.

Further, not all of us are scientists and make our living providing you with a bibliography after every single post! IMO, our main duty when we interact on T-Nation is to learn, do, teach… or at least stay open minded and present our opinions. But they DO NOT have to be referenced for them to be valid.

I encourage you to consider this: wouldn’t you think a “green powder” that is actually a standardized “food” is more readily absorbed/utilized by the body just by using common sense, if not your degree? Second, take some time and research the subject yourself. I think you will find, in time, that the closer you get to a whole food-based multi the better the value.

TopSirloin[/quote]

Obviously I have nothing personal against Bikemike and I’m sure he is a great guy. The point is, I read his comments about kids vitamins and he was posting the same info in each vitamin thread and I thought that it was incorrect, based on my scientific knowledge. I did check his previous posts a bit just to see what else he was saying and found myself disagreeing with his advice so I brought it up.

If he taken a little time to read some of my past posts he would have seen that I actually know a little bit about nutrition and have a few qualifications.

But the sick point is, depsite my quals in reality, I learned more about bodybuilding and nutrition from reading stuff myself then from the friggin assholes who teach the units on the degrees. Most of the people on my MSc, Exercise and Nutrition Science passed some with distinction and they know FUCK ALL about anything to do with nutrition and exercise.

I think the degrees just show you have some credibility, just like a degree in no matter what subject shows a poteential employer you have organisational skills and some decent level of intelligence rather than the topic itself pertaining to the job.

I’m sure the guys who write the articles here, at least before their Ph.D’s learned more on their own steam than what was being spoon fed at University.

[quote]TeeVee69 wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
I like Flintstones 'cause they taste good:-)

Too chalky. Gummy Vites are better.[/quote]

My son takes that brand…the beans variety, he tried the sours and didn’t like them. Clue here, he is 3 years old.

Usana is over rated and too expensive.

I now take the EZ-Swallow Iron Free Oti-Packs by www.superfoodusa.com.

They are priced just right and I have found that they are a affordable alternative.

Each box contains 90 4-tablet packs that easily fit in your pocket.

Just take 1 pack at three of your meals and you are all good.

I don’t post very often, but I am no newbie and I am not a troll. Anyway, I have dealt with the whole “best multi-vitamin” dilema for quite some time; I have even begged Biotest to produce a quality multi.
From my extensive research (no I don’t have “credentials”), I have found there are few things seperating the quality vitamins that exist. What I have found is that the form of nutrients is what makes the quality. For instance, cyanocobalamin, the B-12 found in most multis due to its low cost, is not as bioavailable as methylcobalamin and can produce harmful levels of cyanide when metabolized.
Other significant differences are the binders used in the tableting process. Ingredients like propylene glycol, talc, etc. have alleged toxic effects. One should look for vegetable sourced binders.
Finally, the form of minerals is important as well. Chelated forms are reportedly better than oxide forms when it comes to absorption and bioavailability.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps. With all that being said, I would say Source Naturals Life Force is a good place to start. Going by feel could be useful but can be misleading. Just because you feel a buzz from a product doesn’t mean it is helping maintain/improve your health.

AF Sergeant

I just read this article on synthetic vitamins:

Here it is:

http://www.munising.com/vitamins.html

Some dramatic statements (Are your Vitamins Killing You?) But I would much rather get my vitamins from an organic source rather using a cheap man made source. Not a lot of organic vitamins out there though. A good organic Greens product might fit the bill.

Curious what people have to say about the article. The whole mirrored image thing is kind of interesting but nothing is provided to back this claim up.

[quote]Mattlaw27 wrote:
I just read this article on synthetic vitamins:

Here it is:

http://www.munising.com/vitamins.html

Some dramatic statements (Are your Vitamins Killing You?) But I would much rather get my vitamins from an organic source rather using a cheap man made source. Not a lot of organic vitamins out there though. A good organic Greens product might fit the bill.

Curious what people have to say about the article. The whole mirrored image thing is kind of interesting but nothing is provided to back this claim up.[/quote]

“In today’s world you can buy vitamins everywhere. Health food stores, grocery stores, drug stores, convenience stores, truck stops, etc. Millions of people take one or more vitamins daily, and yet over half of the people in the United States are chronically ill. Something must be wrong.”

I stopped reading after that paragraph.
Complete random bollocks that article.

[quote]Mattlaw27 wrote:
I just read this article on synthetic vitamins…[/quote]

The article is about 94% crap, and about 6% misrepresented truth.

Let’s take vitamin C as an example. The author tries to claim that ascorbic acid isn’t actually vitamin C, which is ridiculous. But consider this passage, from one of my reference books:

“Albert von Szent-Gyorgyi, the doctor who discovered vitamin C, had actually discovered an entire nutritional complex in ascorbate-containing foods. Milligram for milligram, this ‘natural’ vitamin C proved to be more effective [than pure ascorbic acid alone] … The C complex’s success … can be attributed to the fact that the natural sources contain synergistic components, such as rutin and other bioflavonoids, a copper enzyme (tyrosine), and other factors… Were C complex generally available at a reasonable cost, our dosage requirements could be scaled down considerably.”

So the author of the article started with some known facts, but the most charitable thing one can say is that he did a poor job of presenting them.

(By the way, these days many quality brands of vitamin C do include a significant amount of bioflavonoid complex, which includes rutin along with many other compounds.)

Let’s take another point he tries to make: that synthetic vitamins are mirror-images of natural ones. It’s true that many molecules exist in mirror-image forms. It’s true that our bodies can typically only utilize one of those forms. For example, d-alpha tocopherol is the naturally-occurring form of vitamin E. Synthetic vitamin E is a racemic mixture of the d- and l- forms, which is why naturally-derived vitamin E is always preferable to the synthetic version.*

But to extrapolate from this well-known fact, to claiming that ALL synthetic vitamins are mirror-image versions of the natural ones, is fantasy.

The rest of the article follows a similar pattern of taking grains of fact and spinning outrageous claims from them.

(*Another reason to prefer naturally-derived vitamin E is that it usually includes the entire tocopherol family, not just the alpha form. We now know that the other isomers, especially the gamma form, are important too.)

Conclusion

The idea of getting vitamins from organic sources (foods) is not without merit. Note the examples of the vitamin C and E complexes. Note that the importance of phytonutrients was recognized only relatively recently. There’s certainly more that we don’t know yet about micronutrients.

Personally, I eat a variety of whole foods, and I use a greens supplement. But in addition, I’m a vitamin geek and take about 30 pills a day - that includes fish oil, glucosamine, silymarin, extra B6/B12/folic acid, yada yada. For a multivitamin, I’ve been taking Twinlab Daily One (without Iron) for years. If you pick this one, you’ll need to take a multimineral too, because it has only token amounts of calcium and magnesium (you can’t fit anything close to the optimum amounts of these into a single pill, plus minerals are better taken at a different time of day than your vitamins.) I take Twinlab Tri-Boron Plus but there are other good multimineral formulations.

Twinlab Daily Two might be a better choice if you’re disciplined enough to take your pills twice a day. I’m thinking of switching to it.

I get my vitamins from Trader Joe’s: “High potency MultiV and Mineral” - best combo of price/quality. It costs around $12-15 for 180 days (360 tablets) and had A LOT of B-votamins (Thiamine, Rioflavin, Niacin, B6, B12) and at least 100% (more like 300%) of other vitamins.

[quote]Mattlaw27 wrote:
I just read this article on synthetic vitamins:

Here it is:

http://www.munising.com/vitamins.html

Some dramatic statements (Are your Vitamins Killing You?) But I would much rather get my vitamins from an organic source rather using a cheap man made source. Not a lot of organic vitamins out there though. A good organic Greens product might fit the bill.

Curious what people have to say about the article. The whole mirrored image thing is kind of interesting but nothing is provided to back this claim up.[/quote]

I’m with jwillow on this one - although I’m not quite as scientific - I love the jist of the article: EAT ORGANIC! But, the author’s reasoning is similar to how hundreds of companies endorse soy; using unclear scientific evidence and extrapolating to fit their cause. Further, I wish they had copied the Finnish study or at least referenced it in their article. Authors need to do this if they are to be taken seriously.

In truth, some synthetic vitamins can be used by the body but it’s just not the optimal way to get your micronutrients. There is just no way of knowing if you are truly getting all the nutrition you need until you have a health problem. Since you only have one life to live, why gamble?

Once again, yet another reason to find a solid “greens powder”, or whole food-based multi… I hope you saved your reciept when you bought your Flinstone Vitamins…

TopSirloin