[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Oh yeah, the Cherokee tried frantically to covert all the Euros. They didn’t teach you that in history?[/quote]
So, are you equating Christian missionaries with Muslims then?
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Oh yeah, the Cherokee tried frantically to covert all the Euros. They didn’t teach you that in history?[/quote]
Not why he said oh man.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Oh yeah, the Cherokee tried frantically to covert all the Euros. They didn’t teach you that in history?[/quote]
So, are you equating Christian missionaries with Muslims then?[/quote]
No, he’s equating Cherokees with Muslims.
It’s called sarcasm.
[quote]pat wrote:
I think for the first time, we experienced a people and culture that does not hold ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ as self evident. Their values are rooted in something else altogether. An argument can be rightly made that Islam is this root, but I think it’s more than that. There is something regional and cultural that we don’t understand about them as well. We don’t understand people who don’t want freedom.
So we don’t understand why the Arab Spring failed when it had all the watermarks of success.
We don’t understand, in free elections why Palestinians voted for the most violent terrorists around.
We need to understand what makes these people tick and we don’t.
[/quote]
A fair amount of that is the effective use of propaganda against a low-educated people. They don’t know any better, how could they if they don’t have the same access to information and different worldviews as you or I. And many times the people in charge are given gifts from their opposition that work wonderfully as tools for propaganda. These gifts often aren’t remembered by the givers but the recipients have long memories and that is exploited to the fullest extent possible.
This is a general comment not directed to Pat. I sincerely doubt an anti-Semetic (I know Arabs are technically Semites) Palestinian gives a crap about world-wide domination of Islam like IS radicals. You can’t simply say it’s Islam compelling all Muslims to dominate the world. There’s a lot more to it. That Palestinian has been brainwashed through years of consistent propaganda to think Jews are beasts that have stolen his or her’s rightful land. The problem starts at the top. There’s poor leadership in the Muslim world, both official state leaders and otherwise.
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Indian never tried to convert or kill you. Indians protected their land. Muzzys? Not so much. [/quote]
There were several American Indian tribes that tried to kill as many settlers as possible, some were especially savage like the Comanche. The on-going battles between the Indians and settlers were not noble ones, on either side. I think you’re romanticizing that time period.
If you look at US military bases and operations around the world, you’ll find a lot of that directly in the Muslim world. Of course leaders hungry for power are going to present this to their marginalized and low-educated people as an invasion on their land. The reason why we’re not dealing with Muslims the same way early American and Mexican settlers brutally dealt with American Indians is because civilization has progressed and there is new protocol, as well as increased media coverage. These two time periods cannot be compared equally.
For example, Israel has to be careful with how it responds to Palestinian aggression because if Israel is too aggressive it would lead to an extreme rise in world-wide Antisemitism. This is proven with current events, even when Israel is justified in retaliation.
I’m not arguing for Muslims here, just pointing out there’s a reason why they’re hostile and it doesn’t entirely have to do with religion. You’re thinking of IS, Boko Haram, etc., which doesn’t apply to all Muslims. The Muslims that hate us do so because they’re marginalized, brainwashed, and have had foreign imperial powers operating in their lands for centuries. I’d even wager that a fair percentage of the extremists care more about power and dominance than actual religion and converting the world.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Good point. But I don’t understand being so motivated by hate that you would damage yourself to propagate it.[/quote]
The Palestinians believe the Israeli to be foreign invaders who occupied a large swath of their territory, which happens to include holy land very important to the Abrahamic religions.
And the radical/militant islamists believe themselves under siege from the Western world.
So they consider themselves freedom fighters.
Whether they are actually righteous or not I don’t know, nor do I particularly care right this instant.
But I consider the opinion that “they don’t want freedom” to be bunk. They want freedom. They just want freedom to do things that we consider bad/not good for our own self-interest.[/quote]
The proof is in the pudding. Where their have been such ‘freedom’ they voted for oppression. Maybe they do want freedom, but it’s not their highest priority.[/quote]
Good point, Pat. I would again point to my argument about effective propaganda and limited access to outside information and worldviews. I think sometimes life can be so shitty, that striving for a better current world/situation seems like an unattainable fantasy. And it may even be considered selfish.
Look at the Palestinians. Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have a much better life than Palestinians under PA control. I bet those Palestinians in Israel are scorned by the others for not sacrificing for the cause, and being selfish for wanting freedom and a better life. Just my opinion.