[quote]orion wrote:
We could make it more interesting, what if US scientists agree that homosexuality is “healthy” and Russian scientists agree on that it is not?[/quote]
It’s not an opinion poll. The conclusions are based on actual test results from thousands of people, none of which show any statistically significant differences based on sexual orientation.
So have we come to any conclusion yet, are gay people gay or do they just think they are gay?
There’s no such thing as gay, people are only afflicted with SSA “same sex attraction”.
Where is the guy who always talks about Orwell? I can definitely sense Orwell’s precense now.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
forlife wrote:
GrandpaButch wrote:
However, as one Christian expert has said:
Prove homosexuality is normal without quoting modernistic science, or commit non-tradition folly. Go away '09[/quote]
You know, if you were to pay attention to that whole “love thy neighbor” and “peace and love thing” they talk about in the bible i don’t think you would be so proud. Of course nobody ever seems to actually READ the bible these days, but rather people enjoy justifying there prejudices found in an enormous tome written thousands of years ago.
Did Jesus Christ speak against Homosexuality? Never, not even once. He didn’t think it was important and neither should you.
Do the ten commandments condemn Homosexuality? No, not at all, not even mentioned. Why? Because Peace and love is our only commitment in life, and somewhere along the way we learn to fuck it up.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"Every first-year anthropology student learns that group cohesion is maintained by defining in-group and out-group behavior. If a group cannot define itself in these terms, it disappears. (For example, homosexuals use the derogatory term “breeders” to refer to us.)
You’re not homophobic. This campaign is a rearguard action in a war on your sexual identity. Gay Pride apparently is OK but heterosexuals cannot uphold their identity. I’m here to tell you, “Bend over no more.”
Until 1975, homosexuality was considered a developmental disorder. Therapists thought it a major neurosis, a sexual perversion and even a physical illness. Then the Rockefellers yanked the American Psychological Association’s chain and magically, overnight, what for centuries had been abnormal, suddenly was normal.
This is part of a larger attack on gender and marriage designed to decrease population and undermine the family. In the bankers’ New World Order, children are born to single mothers or in laboratories and raised by the state to serve the bankers.
Do you really think the Rockefellers, who financed Eugenics for a century, including Mengele’s heinous experiments in Auschwitz, care about homosexuals’ feelings? No, they are trying to turn you into homosexuals. They want you to suffer from this disorder. That’s why you are learning in school that homosexuality is normal .That’s why they use psychological war (guilt) to level your heterosexual defenses.
This isn’t about equality and human rights. It’s about social engineering and mind control. It’s about depopulation and dictatorship."
[/quote]
Your crazy man! Your CRAZY!!
No seriously, YOU ARE CRAZY!!
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
"Every first-year anthropology student learns that group cohesion is maintained by defining in-group and out-group behavior. If a group cannot define itself in these terms, it disappears. (For example, homosexuals use the derogatory term “breeders” to refer to us.)
You’re not homophobic. This campaign is a rearguard action in a war on your sexual identity. Gay Pride apparently is OK but heterosexuals cannot uphold their identity. I’m here to tell you, “Bend over no more.”
Until 1975, homosexuality was considered a developmental disorder. Therapists thought it a major neurosis, a sexual perversion and even a physical illness. Then the Rockefellers yanked the American Psychological Association’s chain and magically, overnight, what for centuries had been abnormal, suddenly was normal.
This is part of a larger attack on gender and marriage designed to decrease population and undermine the family. In the bankers’ New World Order, children are born to single mothers or in laboratories and raised by the state to serve the bankers.
Do you really think the Rockefellers, who financed Eugenics for a century, including Mengele’s heinous experiments in Auschwitz, care about homosexuals’ feelings? No, they are trying to turn you into homosexuals. They want you to suffer from this disorder. That’s why you are learning in school that homosexuality is normal .That’s why they use psychological war (guilt) to level your heterosexual defenses.
This isn’t about equality and human rights. It’s about social engineering and mind control. It’s about depopulation and dictatorship."
Your crazy man! Your CRAZY!!
No seriously, YOU ARE CRAZY!!
[/quote]
You’re. You’re supposed to be writing it with an apostrophe.
One of the first signs of mental breakdown, that you’re being turned into a homosexual by the secret plan, is mixing up those terms. Better go out, buy some KY, and then starting wearing your pants down low and in the ‘ready’ position.
[quote]makkun wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
[…]I am a ‘counselor’ of sorts to both of them, and I met both witnessing.
This interests me: if I read your earlier posts correctly, you see homosexuality as a condition worthy of therapeutic treatment. Thus, acting as a ‘counselor’ to two gay people should require medical or psychotherapeutic training.
What’s your background and training that would qualify you to work with these ‘patients’? General medical, psychological or psychiatric? What specialist training in therapy methods are we talking about? How do you handle supervision? How about crisis intervention? Any memberships in professional bodies?
Just curious.
Makkun[/quote]
I am not a therapist or a doctor. I do not have any special training, I do not see them on a consistent basis. I am more of a sponsor, but I’m not or ever was homosexual, so that is the wrong name of it in this situation. I however am a sponsor for them in the church.
I do have contacts in the therapeutic field, that I can send referrals to if I think something needs to be addressed. I also have talked to their doctor or read the reports when they wanted me to.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Well one day I met one, and down the road I met the other. Why you looking to meet more gay people?
I am a ‘counselor’ of sorts to both of them, and I met both witnessing.
I thought you said they weren’t “gay people”?
Anyway, ask yourself this. Given that these two people deeply believe that it is wrong to be gay, and that god doesn’t want them to be gay, and feel a sense of shame, disgust, and revulsion toward being gay, do you think that might have something to do with them claiming not to be gay?[/quote]
I didn’t say they gay, but since I found them I thought you might want a hot spot to check out. I never said they were ashamed, and they do not feel guilty. Stop assuming things.
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
forlife wrote:
GrandpaButch wrote:
However, as one Christian expert has said:
Prove homosexuality is normal without quoting modernistic science, or commit non-tradition folly. Go away '09
You know, if you were to pay attention to that whole “love thy neighbor” and “peace and love thing” they talk about in the bible i don’t think you would be so proud. Of course nobody ever seems to actually READ the bible these days, but rather people enjoy justifying there prejudices found in an enormous tome written thousands of years ago.
Did Jesus Christ speak against Homosexuality? Never, not even once. He didn’t think it was important and neither should you.
Do the ten commandments condemn Homosexuality? No, not at all, not even mentioned. Why? Because Peace and love is our only commitment in life, and somewhere along the way we learn to fuck it up.[/quote]
Well you seem so proud yourself, I do not think you understand totally the Love thy neighbor. I actually do read the Bible, and I do not justify anything that is not justifiable by the Bible.
We are not debating over whether Jesus spoke on homosexuality, we are speaking on if being gay is natural, should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry, and even if being born is gay is it fixable.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…we are speaking on if being gay is natural, should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry, and even if being born is gay is it fixable.[/quote]
Why any person with a functioning brain-stem should give a damn about these things is beyond me.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
But you never found anything ironic in Gambits personal attacks on me? Hey…could it be that you agree with him on this topic and not me?
[/quote]
Did I personally attack you recently? I don’t recall. Not that I wouldn’t, mind, just that I think you have maybe confused me with one of the many other posters who argue, quite effectively I might add, that you must have been dropped on your head as a child.
Generally though, you’re neither intelligent nor entertaining; so I most oft simply continue scrolling when I see your name posted.
PS By the way, I’m still laughing at pookie’s “STFU comes in 6, 12, and 24” comment, funny stuff
[quote]orion wrote:
Since when are doctors moral authorities?
[/quote]
Since church got separated from the state :).
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…]I am not a therapist or a doctor. I do not have any special training, I do not see them on a consistent basis. I am more of a sponsor, but I’m not or ever was homosexual, so that is the wrong name of it in this situation. I however am a sponsor for them in the church.[/quote]
If indeed homosexuality were a medical condition worthy of therapy, I would think your role to be very problematic, as with the catalogue of afflictions attributed to it by the ‘ex-gay’ movement (especially the risk of suicide) you would need crisis intervention training and supervision. Anything else would be dangerous and unethical. I get your differentiation with regards to sponsorship (as opposed to for example a substance addiction). Given that you’re not provided training, I gather that your ‘counselor/sponsor’ role is religiously based.
While I have no problem with that per se (trying to help people is a commendable motivation, even when religiously motivated), I’m then a little bit worried about the view on how to handle homosexuality: a role such as yours goes with a self-help group scenario within an addiction setting - yet there doesn’t seem to be the view that professional training, supervision and emergency training needs to be provided. Now if the assumption that homosexuality is a treatable condition yielding a certain amount of danger to the patient - it would warrant all the above. Apparently, whoever runs the programme at your church doesn’t see that necessity.
I find that at best inconsistent, at worst - from the mental health condition viewpoint - negligent. So in simpler words - either, it’s a support effort for a mental health condition, which would require training, supervision, etc.; or it’s not, and then it begs the question why people receive the support in the first place.
And here again, I see a problem. What qualifies you to refer to a therapist? Referrals require knowledge or at least basic training with regards to certain symptoms. You’re seemingly taking on a role that requires you to take a judgment on the mental health status of someone who (according to the ‘ex-gay’ movement’s views) is a mental health issue. Do you recognise the symptoms of a depression, or suicidal thoughts (or even worse someone in planning stage)? I don’t, and I have a degree in psychology - but I’m not a therapist and don’t have a background in clinical psychology, so I’m not qualified. Further on, the thought of interpreting a doctor’s report that isn’t my own (which is tough enough) but helping someone else to do so is a scary one. Both for the sponsee, and it should be for you. Sure, as a layperson, one sometimes gets lucky and makes a spot on recommendation for someone to see a therapist. But I’m getting the feeling you’ve been given a position of responsibility without proper preparation - and your sponsees (sic?) will look to you for advice. If I were you, that would scare me.
If what you are trying to help people with is really as grave as what you imply, this is a terrible oversight, which can have very problematic consequences for you and your sponsees. I understand that the motivation is to help - but the execution I find worrying, as it seems to be based on an inconsistent outlook (is it a medical condition or not?) and endangers both patients/sponsees as well as counselor/sponsor (due to lack of preparation). And if it’s not, then at least from a mental health point of view, there is no need for an intervention. That’s fair - people can do almost whatever they like in a religious context; they just shouldn’t confuse it with what’s supported by science and professional practice.
Makkun
[quote]makkun wrote:
they just shouldn’t confuse it with what’s supported by science and professional practice.
Makkun[/quote]
That was long winded.
I do not confuse my duty to these people as I am supposed to deliver upon them an answer for every question they ask or problem they have. My duty is more of know people that know the answers, not the know it all. I do not have someone who supers me, but do not be mistaken I am their sponsor because I sponsored them in baptism and joining the church. I also have a few other people that I have sponsored as well and stay in touch.
All of them are people that have come to the church because I either talked to them about it or gave them something and we have talked later. I do have some training to see somethings in people, but that is mostly from dealing with people close to me that I had to watch that I learned these things. These people have their own doctors, and I am not it. They have their therapy, and I am not in lead of it. I am for support, and understanding discussing their problems that I have gone through myself.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…]
That was long winded.[/quote]
Sorry, I’ve always had trouble keeping to the point. 
[quote]I do not confuse my duty to these people as I am supposed to deliver upon them an answer for every question they ask or problem they have. My duty is more of know people that know the answers, not the know it all. I do not have someone who supers me, but do not be mistaken I am their sponsor because I sponsored them in baptism and joining the church. I also have a few other people that I have sponsored as well and stay in touch.
All of them are people that have come to the church because I either talked to them about it or gave them something and we have talked later. I do have some training to see somethings in people, but that is mostly from dealing with people close to me that I had to watch that I learned these things. These people have their own doctors, and I am not it. They have their therapy, and I am not in lead of it. I am for support, and understanding discussing their problems that I have gone through myself.[/quote]
So I take it that the support you give is basically pastoral care within the context of your religious community, which also puts your comments on the topic into a religious context. Thanks for clarifying, as for a moment I thought the lines were blurred.
Makkun
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I didn’t say they gay, but since I found them I thought you might want a hot spot to check out. I never said they were ashamed, and they do not feel guilty. Stop assuming things.[/quote]
Are you saying they don’t feel a deep aversion, repulsion, and disgust toward homosexuality? Are you denying that due to their religious beliefs, they think homosexuality is a perversion and contrary to god’s will? Do you not understand how these kinds of feelings might motivate a person to repress, deny, and cover up their sexual orientation? Why do you think people go into the closet in the first place?