'That's So Gay!'

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
282

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
quidnunc,

Are you typing all of this on Mommy’s computer in the basement during summer break? I read your bio you’re a 21 year old 155 pound kid who knows nothing about life or much else for that matter.

Here’s a suggestion for you, drink a big bottle of SHUT THE FUCK UP.

It’s interesting, in an anthropological sense, to talk to people like you. No one I know is a homophobe, or at least no one would ever admit to it. We’ve moved past that barbarity. But while decency is on the rise everywhere - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice” - it’s obviously not at the same levels in all places. So bigots like you still exist, declining steadily in number, but as loud and vile as ever.

So I’m almost lucky to be able to talk to a relic of a dying culture like you. My grandchildren will probably regard homophobes with the sort of uncomprehending disbelief I feel toward Klansmen or Nazis - how could anyone ever have been like that? It’s worth understanding how people in certain societies can be twisted by hatred and ignorance, if only to prevent it from happening again.

Do you feel all warm and fuzzy now…good I hope so. Kids should feel good about themselves but you go a little too far, you think you’re something extra special don’t you?. Mommy and daddy really filled your head up before they wrote that last check to PC University.

It’s nice being supported by mommy and daddy isn’t it? They rub your head and tell you what a smart little boy you are…

Oh…that’s so nice.

But you see punk here in the real world I don’t give a fuck how many sentences you try to string together to feel good about yourself. You still sound like the 150 pound 21 year old little boy that you are.

Was that harsh? Yea…reality tends to be that way…

When you get out in the real world and actually support yourself I might just pay you a little respect and engage you in this…or any other…debate.

Until then just keep chugging that great big glass of SHUT THE FUCK UP I gave you a while ago.

Admit it. You’re a drama student doing a Method portrayal of the Loud Ignorant Lower Class White Male. It’s not bad, but you need to add in a few human qualities to be really believable. No one is that sick in real life.

You sound like someone doing an impression of a 21 year old punk who only weighs 150 pounds banging away on a keyboard in your parents basement…but mommy and daddy love you no matter what…Oh wait…that’s not an impression it’s really you.

Keep chugging on that glass of SHUT THE FUCK UP kid.

They’re so adorable when they start barking like that.

Does mommy keep your allowance going in the summer too, or do you have to work at McDonalds with the rest of the kiddies? Probably the smartest thing you’ve said in years is, “do you want french fries with that sir”? Look at it this way punk at least you have someone that HAS to listen to you. .

[/quote]

See, now you aren’t even doing a good job here. Tolerant people are HIGHER social class and MORE intelligent than bigots, so you want to be mocking my trust fund, my sinecure at Cravath, my summer in Paris, and all the books that I read.

283

Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.

284

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.[/quote]

I’m totally with you on trading serious insults, which is seductive but ultimately pretty stupid. Laughing at the other guy while he screams himself hoarse isn’t quite the same thing - someone or other said that the most potent weapon against fascism is ridicule.

But there’s also the saying about arguing on the Internet and the Special Olympics, so against the current crop of haters in this thread at least I’ll give it a rest.

285

[quote]quidnunc wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.

I’m totally with you on trading serious insults, which is seductive but ultimately pretty stupid. Laughing at the other guy while he screams himself hoarse isn’t quite the same thing - someone or other said that the most potent weapon against fascism is ridicule.

But there’s also the saying about arguing on the Internet and the Special Olympics, so against the current crop of haters in this thread at least I’ll give it a rest. [/quote]

Because you’re gay, and that comes along with mental weakness, I understand.

I’m back, I was on vacation. I went gay-bashing in Manhattan, took a little rest in Aspen, went fishing and killed some gay-fish, and then a homo bear. Didn’t eat them, didn’t want to catch the Ghey though.

Joking aside. You cannot honestly expect anyone, with the right sense, to believe that being gay is somehow right. Especially to justify being gay by saying you were born with it. When everywhere, always, and by all being homosexual was considered not normal and a sin.

286

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
You cannot honestly expect anyone, with the right sense, to believe that being gay is somehow right. [/quote]

I assume you mean evangelicals?

289

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.[/quote]

Actually, you can learn a lot from the flame wars. You can see who’s imaginative, smart and creative and who’s moronic, angry and repetitive (cups of STFU apparently comes in cases of 6, 12 and 24, just like beer does); you can see who uses youth and bodyweight as “insults” as if being older and heavier was an adequate substitute to knowledge and education.

You can tell who’s the better adjusted individual vs. the poor sap with the sad life who’s desperately trying to blame those who are different - by race, sex, age, religion, sexual orientation, nationality, bodyweight, handicap, etc - for his own failings. Were it not for (hated group X), he’d be rich, handsome, successful, loved and desired. It’s obviously (group X)'s fault for destroying society’s “good values” and forcing him to be such a pathetic worm.

There’s also the amusement factor of having self-styled “men of the world” who “have done something in life” flapping their mouths like petulant tantrum-throwing 5 years old. Yup, they’ve sure gotten wise with the years. All that tavern drinking with the boys does pay off eventually.

It might not be information about the topic at hand, but information about the participants is equally valuable.

291

Did your mother drop you on your head as an infant? That is the only explanation.

292

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
When everywhere, always, and by all being homosexual was considered not normal and a sin.[/quote]

Well, “not normal” is rather obvious. Heterosexuals are the large majority and would be considered “the norm”. Neanderthal-faced individuals wearing funny glasses are also “not normal” but no one advocates discriminating against them.

By “sin” I assume you mean “wrong” or “unethical”? Please use the correct words; your grammar, syntax and punctuation is haphazard enough without having to wonder if you’re implying that homosexuality is somehow related to tangents and cosines.

Assuming you mean sin the the sense usually used by Bible-Brain Disease sufferers, you should look into the cultures of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, where many forms of homosexuality where tolerated, when not outright accepted and sometimes even celebrated.

If you want a valid “everywhere, always, and by all” statement, you should go with: In every culture, everywhere, and at all time, there have been homosexual individuals. What mostly varies is the degree of bigotry they have had to endure.

293

[quote]pookie wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.

Actually, you can learn a lot from the flame wars. You can see who’s imaginative, smart and creative and who’s moronic, angry and repetitive (cups of STFU apparently comes in cases of 6, 12 and 24, just like beer does); you can see who uses youth and bodyweight as “insults” as if being older and heavier was an adequate substitute to knowledge and education.

You can tell who’s the better adjusted individual vs. the poor sap with the sad life who’s desperately trying to blame those who are different - by race, sex, age, religion, sexual orientation, nationality, bodyweight, handicap, etc - for his own failings. Were it not for (hated group X), he’d be rich, handsome, successful, loved and desired. It’s obviously (group X)'s fault for destroying society’s “good values” and forcing him to be such a pathetic worm.

There’s also the amusement factor of having self-styled “men of the world” who “have done something in life” flapping their mouths like petulant tantrum-throwing 5 years old. Yup, they’ve sure gotten wise with the years. All that tavern drinking with the boys does pay off eventually.

It might not be information about the topic at hand, but information about the participants is equally valuable.

[/quote]

I don’t mind having a pet troll, for that very reason. The raw hatred and ignorance is a more compelling case for change than anything I could quote from the leading medical and mental health organizations.

294

[quote]pookie wrote:

Assuming you mean sin the the sense usually used by Bible-Brain Disease sufferers, you should look into the cultures of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, where many forms of homosexuality where tolerated, when not outright accepted and sometimes even celebrated.[/quote]

I don’t support gay-bashing (verbally or otherwise), and this thread is an embarrassment, but the cultures of ancient Greece and Rome did no such thing. Enough with this myth.

295

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
pookie wrote:

Assuming you mean sin the the sense usually used by Bible-Brain Disease sufferers, you should look into the cultures of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, where many forms of homosexuality where tolerated, when not outright accepted and sometimes even celebrated.

I don’t support gay-bashing (verbally or otherwise), and this thread is an embarrassment, but the cultures of ancient Greece and Rome did no such thing. Enough with this myth.[/quote]

That “myth” is widely documented and supported. While it is more often bisexual behavior rather than exclusive homosexuality that is depicted and described; I’d be interested in what sources you use to dismiss the whole thing as “a myth”.

296

[quote]pookie wrote:

That “myth” is widely documented and supported. While it is more often bisexual behavior rather than exclusive homosexuality that is depicted and described; I’d be interested in what sources you use to dismiss the whole thing as “a myth”.[/quote]

Neither ancient Greece nor Rome had broad tolerance of homosexuality. That doesn’t mean homosexuals were burned at the stake - it just means that the societies were not “tolerance paradises” as suggested by you.

Ancient Greece did not view homosexual intercourse and heterosexual intercourse as the same phenomenon. It was regarded as abnormal, and not something widely tolerated or “celebrated”. In particular, men who were “passive” were shamed - catamites received the worst of the cultual opprobrium.

Both ancient societies believed homosexuality to be a symptom of decadence and licentious appetite, not a “different but equal” lifestyle. In Rome, it was often associated with the excesses of the ruling class, who indulged in fantasies and decadent role-play.

Homosexuality existed, and was even believe to be part of Nature (if a abnormal one), but was not considered “equal to” heterosexuality, and it certainly was not “celebrated”. Most often -as we know that the ancients weren’t quite as PC as modern society - homosexuality was seen as a weakness and inferior.

298

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Neither ancient Greece nor Rome had broad tolerance of homosexuality. That doesn’t mean homosexuals were burned at the stake - it just means that the societies were not “tolerance paradises” as suggested by you.[/quote]

So you say. There are many historical references in art, poetry, etc. that shows that homosexuality and pederasty in particular was fairly widely accepted in Ancient Greece. A male penetrating a social inferior, be they women, younger men, slaves, etc. was not shamed for his behavior.

Yes, stigma was attached to being the “inferior” in the relationship; but not to being the dominant. In opposition to some in our modern times who see any homosexual behavior as reprehensible.

Ancient cultures didn’t have our modern views of homosexuality. The views of the Ancient Greeks aligned a lot more along the line of dominant/dominated than those of hetero/homosexual.

Sexual relation between master/servant, teacher/student, commander/soldier were not regarded as abhorrent, but were often seen as solidifying to the relations and the behavior was also perceived beneficial for population control, education, and so on. Some platoons of soldiers were made up of men and their lovers and found to be quite effective on the battlefield.

I’ve checked and have been unable to find a similar platoon arrangement in any modern military; so I’ll argue that the Greek were more tolerant of homosexual behavior than many modern societies.

299

[quote]quidnunc wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
quidnunc,

Are you typing all of this on Mommy’s computer in the basement during summer break? I read your bio you’re a 21 year old 155 pound kid who knows nothing about life or much else for that matter.

Here’s a suggestion for you, drink a big bottle of SHUT THE FUCK UP.

It’s interesting, in an anthropological sense, to talk to people like you. No one I know is a homophobe, or at least no one would ever admit to it. We’ve moved past that barbarity. But while decency is on the rise everywhere - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice” - it’s obviously not at the same levels in all places. So bigots like you still exist, declining steadily in number, but as loud and vile as ever.

So I’m almost lucky to be able to talk to a relic of a dying culture like you. My grandchildren will probably regard homophobes with the sort of uncomprehending disbelief I feel toward Klansmen or Nazis - how could anyone ever have been like that? It’s worth understanding how people in certain societies can be twisted by hatred and ignorance, if only to prevent it from happening again.
[/quote]

All these people are still around, they just have found other issues.

If you really think that some people would not shoot you or put you into a camp in order to stop private gun ownership/recreational drug use/save the planet/introduce universal care health/fight “terrorism” , you are wrong.

For about 30% of people the organizing principle of human relations is violence and they can come into power any time.

300

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Quid, stop.
I’m serious. Shouting matches with strangers don’t do you any good. It’s irresistible to get the last word in, I know, but it corrodes you.[/quote]

No, seeing such guys “win” in real live because nobody confronts them, that corrodes me.

Ridiculing them keeps me sane.