Thanksgiving Is To God

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]V Man wrote:
Furthermore, God knows the heart and your intentions. Setting out to sin is far different than slipping into sin. A true Christian does not want to sin, but as any human may fall on occasion.

[/quote]
What’s the difference? If it’s not actively enforced and I can still decide to repent later in life then it is a free-bee. What the bible says is inconsequential. Jesus saves. I’ve read this on many bubmber stickers. When I decide to repent is my business.

How do you know God knows my intentions if I do not even know them. The bible doesn’t say anything about intent. This reminds me of a great parable:

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

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[quote]combatwombat wrote:
I hate to but in as this is very ammusing.

Name the last Christian to start a war.

Wouldn’t this be George W. Bush?

Do I get a prize now?

[/quote]

No.

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
V Man wrote:
Furthermore, God knows the heart and your intentions. Setting out to sin is far different than slipping into sin. A true Christian does not want to sin, but as any human may fall on occasion.

What’s the difference? If it’s not actively enforced and I can still decide to repent later in life then it is a free-bee. What the bible says is inconsequential. Jesus saves. I’ve read this on many bubmber stickers. When I decide to repent is my business.

How do you know God knows my intentions if I do not even know them. The bible doesn’t say anything about intent. This reminds me of a great parable:

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”[/quote]

Do you have good intentions?

:wink:

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
V Man wrote:
Furthermore, God knows the heart and your intentions. Setting out to sin is far different than slipping into sin. A true Christian does not want to sin, but as any human may fall on occasion.

What’s the difference? If it’s not actively enforced and I can still decide to repent later in life then it is a free-bee. What the bible says is inconsequential. Jesus saves. I’ve read this on many bubmber stickers. When I decide to repent is my business.

How do you know God knows my intentions if I do not even know them. The bible doesn’t say anything about intent. This reminds me of a great parable:

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”[/quote]

"He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God’s sight.” Luke 16:15

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[quote]Lorisco wrote:
"He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God’s sight.” Luke 16:15
[/quote]

Sounds like wealth…

Anyhow, listen up pudknockers, t-giving is over, passe, gone. It’s time for massive shopping, credit card purchases and financial debauchery… get with the program already. Yes, x-giving, better known as x-mas, is upon us.

67

[quote]vroom wrote:
Now that thanksgiving itself is over, I think we can all give thanks every other day of the year… that we aren’t Steveo.

WOOHOO! Thank You! Thank You![/quote]

Let us ALL praise the Lord that we are not afflicted with this disease some call organized religion.

It can turn a logical man into believing creationism! And the bible: Word for word.

68

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

Think about it. God was taken from society and we have:

(1) 1.2 million babies slaughtered each year.

(2) 40% of children born out of wedlock.

(3) Preteens having sex.

(4) Kids killing each other in schools.

(5) Moral fabric of our society down in the toilet.

(6) Profantiy everywhere you look.

While I don’t disagree that American society has taken a drastic downturn since the end of the second World War, I wonder if all of the blame can be laid at the feet of godlessness. Relatively speaking, the United States is one of the most religious nations, in terms of professed believers, in the western world.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are far less religious than the United States (30%, 25%, and 22% atheist respectively, as opposed to 9% in the US), and their societies seem to be pretty much intact.

European countries are even less religious: over 40% of the French, nearly 50% of the Danes, and a whopping 85% of the Swedes do not believe in God. Say what you will about Europe, but it does not seem to be a writhing cauldron of lawlessness and iniquity.

And Japan? Probably more atheists per square meter than anywhere else in the world (with the possible exception of Vietnam), but still the safest, most orderly, and generally most moral place I’ve ever been.

So how can we account for this collapse of American society of which you speak? Is it our unique multi-ethnic and multicultural milieu? Our unequaled consumerist ethos? The prevalence of shit masquerading as popular culture on TV and magazines? Or could it be that all of this crime and immorality is being practiced only by that nonbelieving 9% of the population?

For the record: I do not hate America, I don’t hate God, and I’m not trying to be a smartass. I simply want to know, Steveo: do you really think that a dose of religion is all this country needs to right its wrongs?[/quote]

No, we need a lot more than a “dose of religion.” However, what I am saying is that if we turned back to God we would be in better shape than where we have fallen. The secular media and secular society follow ‘traditions’ such as having a “Thanksgiving” which was established to thank God and turns it into “Turkey Day.” People don’t want to study history anymore in this age of video games and high tech toys. The result is that people are not aware that our history and traditions in a large measure all stem back from those who came before us who were seeking to worship the God of the Bible. Again, I acknowledge that not everyone connected to our founding were born-again Christians, but I am saying that at the very least those who were not had a mighty fear of God and would agree with thanking Him.[quote]

(The data for the percentages quoted above are available if anyone wants them.)
[/quote]

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[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Once again you make a complete idiot out of yourself. Christmas was set up to honor Christ. We are “off the hook,” because there is no hook. Since the U.S. was established by people who sought to honor God and praise Him and advance the Christian faith, we have every right to make holidays to honor Christ. This doesn’t force anyone to follow the religion or believe what we believe, but we are, like it or not, a Christian nation and most of us like it this way.

LOL! You live in a secular nation with a large number of Christians within it. However, I think you missed the fact I was being foolish and joking around.

Establishing a religion is when a legislative body declares a particular faith as the national faith and that it must be followed. Nothing of the sort has been done by making Christmas a Federal Holiday. Nothing of the sort is done when students pray at school. Nothing of the sort is done when the Ten Commandments hang on a wall, and nothing of the sort is done when a president declares that a holiday is to praise and honor God.

This is your opinion on the matter, and you are welcome to your deluded foolish opinion, but don’t expect everyone to agree with you.[/quote]

This is not simply my opinion on the matter – it is, in fact, what the U.S. Constitution actually says. It says that “Congress shall make no law concerning the establishment of a relition.” Vroom, the founders came from a country that had a national religion and forced everyone to support it financially. The founders wanted to ensure that everyone was free to follow whatever religion they wished and that we should have no national religion.

Thus praying in school, posting the ten commandments on the steps of a courthouse or in a classroom is not the “Congress making a law concerning the establishment of a religion.” Common sense – read the document and apply what is there.

The problem is that those who hate God and hate ‘religion’ have warped the founder’s intent and have ripped God out of the public square. Nowhere in the founder’s writings do we see this and in fact their writings are replete with references to Almighty God and the necessity for a people to have a good fear of Him.

So, quite the contrary – this is not an opinion of mine, nor is it what I wish it was – it is, Vroom, constitutional fact. [quote]

Perhaps you should learn to differentiate between what you want, or prefer, and what something actually is.

Do you really think President George Washington violated the U.S. Constitution when he procalimed that Thanksgiving was to Almighty God?

How foolish of you Vroom.

There is a difference between some loudmouth making proclamations and having a government continually show preferential treatment to a certain religion.

Anyway, keep calling me foolish for statements made in jest or for statements that I didn’t even make, if that will make you feel intelligent.

Moron.[/quote]

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Ren wrote:
So tell me, are all these Christians talking the talk but not walking the walk

Any Christian will tell you it doesn’t matter how you live your life as long as you accept Jesus and ask for forgiveness for your sins before you die. This essentially equates to a free ride. If you look at the religions that do not have this feature you tend to see less “moral depravity”.[/quote]

Well anyone can claim to be anything. The Bible tells us that true believers in Christ, although will sin, will not live their lives any longer in sin, but will seek to purify themselves in this life (this is called sanctification) and live according to God’s Word. In other words, if you see someone who says they are ‘christian,’ but their lives look like everyone else, then the Bible tells us that they probably aren’t really christian at all.

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[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

Think about it. God was taken from society and we have:

(1) 1.2 million babies slaughtered each year.

(2) 40% of children born out of wedlock.

(3) Preteens having sex.

(4) Kids killing each other in schools.

(5) Moral fabric of our society down in the toilet.

(6) Profantiy everywhere you look.

While I don’t disagree that American society has taken a drastic downturn since the end of the second World War, I wonder if all of the blame can be laid at the feet of godlessness. Relatively speaking, the United States is one of the most religious nations, in terms of professed believers, in the western world.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are far less religious than the United States (30%, 25%, and 22% atheist respectively, as opposed to 9% in the US), and their societies seem to be pretty much intact.

European countries are even less religious: over 40% of the French, nearly 50% of the Danes, and a whopping 85% of the Swedes do not believe in God. Say what you will about Europe, but it does not seem to be a writhing cauldron of lawlessness and iniquity.

And Japan? Probably more atheists per square meter than anywhere else in the world (with the possible exception of Vietnam), but still the safest, most orderly, and generally most moral place I’ve ever been.

So how can we account for this collapse of American society of which you speak? Is it our unique multi-ethnic and multicultural milieu? Our unequaled consumerist ethos? The prevalence of shit masquerading as popular culture on TV and magazines? Or could it be that all of this crime and immorality is being practiced only by that nonbelieving 9% of the population?

For the record: I do not hate America, I don’t hate God, and I’m not trying to be a smartass. I simply want to know, Steveo: do you really think that a dose of religion is all this country needs to right its wrongs?

No, we need a lot more than a “dose of religion.” However, what I am saying is that if we turned back to God we would be in better shape than where we have fallen. The secular media and secular society follow ‘traditions’ such as having a “Thanksgiving” which was established to thank God and turns it into “Turkey Day.” People don’t want to study history anymore in this age of video games and high tech toys. The result is that people are not aware that our history and traditions in a large measure all stem back from those who came before us who were seeking to worship the God of the Bible. Again, I acknowledge that not everyone connected to our founding were born-again Christians, but I am saying that at the very least those who were not had a mighty fear of God and would agree with thanking Him.

(The data for the percentages quoted above are available if anyone wants them.)

[/quote]

So as long as they study your perceived view of history you are happy.
If my children are not going to be taught a balanced version of the truth but rather an agenda laden fabrication I would rather they played video games instead,thank you very much.
And as for what turning back to God would accomplish,that is your opinion and pure conjecture.The times of greatest darkness in human history have been when religion was at the forefront of society and exercised its control by fear,guilt and maintaining ignorance.
Nothing has changed.

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[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
This is not simply my opinion on the matter – it is, in fact, what the U.S. Constitution actually says. It says that “Congress shall make no law concerning the establishment of a relition.” Vroom, the founders came from a country that had a national religion and forced everyone to support it financially. The founders wanted to ensure that everyone was free to follow whatever religion they wished and that we should have no national religion.

Thus praying in school, posting the ten commandments on the steps of a courthouse or in a classroom is not the “Congress making a law concerning the establishment of a religion.” Common sense – read the document and apply what is there.
[/quote]

Steveo, I know logic is certainly not your forte, but let’s examine what you said. The following is particularly interesting…

the founders came from a country that had a national religion and forced everyone to support it financially

Then you move on to this…

Thus praying in school, posting the ten commandments on the steps of a courthouse or in a classroom is not the “Congress making a law concerning the establishment of a religion.”

The problem is, that when you have the government spending money to support one prayer, or the commandments of one religion, you in effect have passed laws to support that religion.

After all, it takes laws to raise money, it takes laws to establish public classrooms and courtrooms, and it takes yet more laws to disburse government monies.

You seem to be happy with the government supporting your religion, but you don’t realize that it takes laws to do so… and that unless those laws are supporting all religions, they are doing what is prohibited.

If it wasn’t so, then the courts would not have taken the actions they have.

73

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
This is not simply my opinion on the matter – it is, in fact, what the U.S. Constitution actually says. It says that “Congress shall make no law concerning the establishment of a relition.” Vroom, the founders came from a country that had a national religion and forced everyone to support it financially. The founders wanted to ensure that everyone was free to follow whatever religion they wished and that we should have no national religion.

Thus praying in school, posting the ten commandments on the steps of a courthouse or in a classroom is not the “Congress making a law concerning the establishment of a religion.” Common sense – read the document and apply what is there.

Steveo, I know logic is certainly not your forte, but let’s examine what you said. The following is particularly interesting…

the founders came from a country that had a national religion and forced everyone to support it financially

Then you move on to this…

Thus praying in school, posting the ten commandments on the steps of a courthouse or in a classroom is not the “Congress making a law concerning the establishment of a religion.”

The problem is, that when you have the government spending money to support one prayer, or the commandments of one religion, you in effect have passed laws to support that religion.

After all, it takes laws to raise money, it takes laws to establish public classrooms and courtrooms, and it takes yet more laws to disburse government monies.

You seem to be happy with the government supporting your religion, but you don’t realize that it takes laws to do so… and that unless those laws are supporting all religions, they are doing what is prohibited.

If it wasn’t so, then the courts would not have taken the actions they have.[/quote]

Vroom, I think it is you that has the logic problem. I simply stated and will state again that the U.S. Constituion forbids Congress from ESTABLISHING A NATIONAL RELIGION . It doesn’t prohibit Congress form authorizing prayers to open their sessions, create holidays that honor the traditions of one religion (we celebrate Christmas as a national holiday. We don’t celebrate Chanukkah, or Ramadan, or Kwanza as national holidays), or post the commandments or Bible verses on national monuments.

Do you know why we can do all of this and still be within the U.S. Constitution? The answer is because none of these things is ‘establishing’ a religion. Vroom, our constitution doesn’t prohibit honoring one religion over another one or setting up a national holiday to mark the birth of Jesus. It only prohibits establishing a national religion. What will it take for you to get this through your thick skull? Read the document and think of what the words mean.

Merry Christmas!

74

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

European countries are even less religious: over 40% of the French, nearly 50% of the Danes, and a whopping 85% of the Swedes do not believe in God. Say what you will about Europe, but it does not seem to be a writhing cauldron of lawlessness and iniquity.
[/quote]

85% of the population are not atheists only 20-30% are atheists, the rest are either theists, deists (believing in a life force). I’m a bit late and only bothered to mention this because I happened to have lived in Sweden.

According, to a comprehensive and unbiased EuroStat poll 76% of the population in Sweden believe in either a God, a spirit or a life force while 23% are atheist. Furthermore, 33% of the French are atheists while 61% are some sort of theist/deist and 5 % are agnostic. Denmark - 80% theist, 19% atheist.

Now while Sweden is very secularized, and people are starting to sway from the traditional belief in a God, I don’t think people are becoming atheist as much as they are forming they’re own view of what a higher power maybe.

The former arch bishop of Sweden, K G Hammar, said “If someone asks you if you believe in God don’t be so quick to say yes but ask what he or her means by God”.

Necessary references are found here, http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf

page 11 contains the necessary information