[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Ummm… it’s still a majorly secular holiday. It’s not about giving thanks to God now, it’s about being thankful all-around.
I’m a realist. Meaning I don’t beleive in a greater being at all. I’m not offended when people talk about God, though I AM offended when god is brought into places he/she/they do/es not belong. I don’t care if Thanksgiving was originally created to thank god. Thats not what I feel during Thanksgiving, and thats not what I accept it’s message to be.
And on a second though, Steveo, this is pure flame tinder. Shit, if this isn’t a cry for a flame war, nothing is.
Troll.
I am sorry that you don’t believe in Almighty God and I am glad that you do recognize why this holiday originated. However you are wrong when you say that it is no longer so. Nobody has recinded Thanksgiving’s original intent. It was and continues to be a Day of Thanksgiving to God .
I thought it was appropriate to point this out with historical fact. That’s all.
Umm… just because YOU say that it is a holiday of God, doesn’t mean most people celebrate it that way.
So… what’s your point? Just thought you’d share a fun fact? Come on.
You’re trying to imply that America is a Christian nation. Well guess what bub, we we’re founded by Atheists and Theists alike, on principals of seperation between church and state.
So: Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
OR
Give a different point.
Wow…you can actually string a couple of sentences together quite well before you degenerate into the profane.
Anyway, I am not implying anything. That is what YOU say. I was simply stating a historical fact to encourage others to THANK GOD on the day we are to give thanks TO HIM.
Now, you do bring up an interesting point about our Founding. So, since you brought it up, for homework I would like you to “google” the Mayflower Compact and read it. . It is very brief and contains no profanity, unlike your posts.
Keep in mind that these WERE the actual founders of what was to become the United States of America. This is what they wrote before stepping off the boat.
Then, after you have read it, why not come back to this thread and report on what you found.
As for your command for me to stop posting…
The answer is no.
Sigh. Mayflower Compact = Not America. They were sepretists. If anything, they were considered religious nuts even by the old time standards. They were most certainly not the founders of the United States. I cannot remember a single sepretist (in the sense that they were part of the original super-religious following of Pilgrims) being present at the Constitutional Convention, because they no longer existed at that point. The reliiousness died with the new generation, who was more concered with surviving and making money than with God.
By the time America was actually founded, the religious ferver of the Puritan sepretists had calmed a whole damn lot. The CONSTITUTION was created by both Theists (very few were actually Christian, and most prefered the “watchmaker God”) and Atheists alike.
You say your just pointing out that Thanksgiving is for giving Thanks to God.
Well I’m just pointing out that it’s not like that anymore for a lot of the people in the US. That it’s changed, so the originaly intent doesn’t really matter at all.
If you keep making these threads maybe I should start throwing threads up claiming how most “Christian” holidays are actually Pagan ones, or that the founders of the US were majorily Atheist (if not declared then in all but name).
Seriously. I’m not pushing Atheism with new threads, don’t push Christianity.
Well, the original intent or the original reason for a holiday is important. George Washington, who was certainly one of our nations founders, echoed the 1621 Thanksgiving Proclamation and declared that the holiday was to thank and praise God.
The fact that people don’t recognize this is terrible and perhaps if more people would stop and thank God, just perhaps this nation would be in a little better spiritual condition than it is now.
I do appreciate your last post which is to debate and disagree without being disagreeable. Thank you for that.
You still don’t get it. The holiday has changed.
If anything, religion is ruining this nation. The more secular nations are so much more better off than the religious ones, it’s getting rediculous.
The Evangelicals have somehow dominated and perversed our political system, and the Jewish lobby is doing something similar to our foreign policy. It is religion in the Middle East that has created such abundance of Tyranny.
Our originators left England to ESCAPE religious persecution. To escape the forced Anglican Church. Christianity is not, was not, and never will be the national religion, because our constitution makes it damn clear that an established religion would be a disgrace to everything this country stands for.
Well, for now I will overlook your antisemitic comment and give you the benefit of the doubt. I hope you will clarify this comment about the “Jewish lobby,” and I hope that your feelings toward the Jewish people are not what your comment might indicate.
However, going to your point that “religion is runining this country,” I ask you, really? Has it really? In fact, I would argue that it is the secularization of our nation that is ruining it. Think about it, before God was taken out of the schools and before the Bible was tosses aside, where were the metal detectors at the doors of our schools? Where were the Columbines? Where were the millions of babies being killed every year? Where was the divorce rate? Where was the %'age of kids being born out of wedlock (today this is 40% of all babies).
Your problem is that you equate Christians with Islamic “facists” and you, as often is the case, you blame America first. Name the last time a Fundamental Christian blew up a bus. Name the last time a Bible-believer gunned someone down in cold blood. Name the last Christian to start a war.
Your facts are flawed and your beliefs are wrong. I am not saying that Christianity is the national religion, but I am asserting through history that we were indeed founded upon Christian principles and certainly the forefathers who stepped from the Mayflower – which by the way included the Separtists, Puritians (who were part of the Anglican Church), and non-believers – wrote that one of their purposes was to “advance the Christian religion.” That is a quote from the Mayflower compact. They wanted to spread the Christian faith through establishing a foothold in the New World. These, sir, are the facts.
Now, please explain your anti-semitic comment.
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A) HAHAHAHA. I’m a JEW. Not anti-semetic. And if you seriously beleive the Jewish lobby doesn’t exist, well, it does. It holds a great amount of power actually. It’s the main reason we so strongly supported Isreal, and continue to today. It’s a lobby. Not ALL jewish people, damn. Just like the Christian lobby doesn’t represent all Christians.
B) Last Christian to start a war: George W. Bush.
C) There were terrible things done before Christianity was taken out of the schools.
Look at the secular nations. They have the greatest standard of living, the highest literacy rates, ect ect.
D) I do so hope you rmember the “crusades”. The “Salem Witch Trials”. The “Spanish Inquisition”. If you bring the past into this, why shouldn’t I?
E) Whens the last time an Atheist started a war? Or a secular nation for that matter? (Stalin wasn’t an Atheist, before you jump on it. He seemed to be , publically, but by searching his videos and speeches, he’s most obviously a theist. Though I’m not sure if he was Christian.)
F) Christianity does not produce morals. It doesn’t even stand on good morals. The bible is filled with horrible, depraved things being apporved of. And even though Christianity seems to shout good morality, in actuallity it does little to make people more moral. Look how many Christians murder, steal, adulter ect…
G) For the love off… THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR FOUNDING.
Clear enough? Those religious feelings dissipated with the second generation. Thats why John Winthrop got so fricken pissed off in his later life. The second and third generations had little of the religious ferver of the older group.
Franklin, Jefferson, Madisdon, Hamilton, Adams, these are among our founders, and they are mostly Atheists, or Theists who thought Christianity as a whole was ridiculous.
They were beleivers ot the Enlightenment. The period where the philosophs questioned religion. They searched for natural laws, outside those published in the bible. Though they still maybe tied to religion, certainly not the ferverous Christianity that you spout.