Testosterone Decreasing in Americans

[quote]Professor X wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Sliver wrote:
I’m wondering what’s doing it, and more importantly, what can be done to reverse it. Could it be a sedentary lifestyle that’s becoming more common? Xenoestrogen exposure? Increased alcohol consumption?

I would say that all three are probably the biggest reasons why.

For some reasons I can’t understand why, our nations youth(highschool/college) seem to think that just because your of a certain age means you must binge drink 2-3(or more) days a week. This most certainly is depleting the test.

Xenoextrogen exposure is another biggie. Maybe even the biggest reason why.

And sedentary lifestyle is another huge factor. There are countless of studies that show people from New York City, regardless of race, have on average, a much higher average test level than your average american male. Its pretty obvious why. They lead active, busy lives and get in alot of walking, and have a much lower BF% than people of other areas.

What you just wrote should imply to you that regardless of any environmental estrogens, it can be overcome by simply not living your life like a castrated couch potato. That was what I was getting at. There are many other parts of the country other than New York where men don’t look feminized. That would include most inner city neighborhoods or project areas.

[/quote]

I agree with alot of what you said, but I don’t think people should have to “overcome” something as serious as environmental estrogens. And if the people of New York City are tuff now, imagine what they would be like with an even more ideal, estrogen free environment.

And yea, there are other parts, not just New York. I was just using that as an example because it was taken from a study I read about. My home city of Detroit comes to mind as well.

And its not just estrogen. Stress, drugs/achohol, less than healthy upbringings, food quality, etc. the list is long.

Soy

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
And its not just estrogen. Stress, drugs/achohol, less than healthy upbringings, food quality, etc. the list is long.[/quote]

Also, to go back to the cell phone thing, don’t forget that stress is not just “emergencies”.

Whenever you are interrupted and don’t appreciate receiving a call, that is a form of stress. Loud noise, even background noise, is a form of stress. A lot of things we don’t notice consciously are forms of stress.

If you go back even a generation or two, you’ll find that people were not so attached to communication. There was no Internet. Cell phones didn’t even exist. Yes, it’s true, and it’s not so long ago.

If you lived in the country, you’d simply have to sit outside in the sunshine and find something to do, or die of boredom.

Life is different now. Every ten minutes you can listen to a jet or plane overhead (or landing nearby), trains are zooming around (with those quiet horns they have), people are screeching around in their cars (and getting pissed off at traffic jams and other stupid drivers), phones are ringing incessantly (and half the time it’s a telemarketer calling during dinner), shitty fast food is everywhere (and supposedly good food in the stores is crap), most people have crappy jobs they hate (with evil bosses that are stupid), younger people can sit in school (and fear screwing up their entire future every time they take a test), generally eat pure process crud that doesn’t support healthy bodily function, so it’s no wonder, on the whole, that society has declining testosterone.

Slow down. Relax. Turn off the television, the radio, the MP3 player, the cell phone, the fax, the computer, the game console, and sit outside somewhere that it isn’t overcrowded and enjoy a little bit of nature.

Ah well, at least when 90% of the male population turns into non-reproductive non-sexual beings, the remaining men will have a field day!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
carter12 wrote:
Brendan Ryan wrote:
I not sure if I’m surprised by this. It’s really becoming blatantly obvious.

Exactly. Hell, just go outside and you’ll find your evidence.

I’m taking a class now where I have witnessed grown men talk about the interior design of a house, specifically whether the curtains looked good or not, after returning from a field trip to a museum. From what I know about my father and grandfather, I just don’t see that happening when they were my age.

The average guy I see now is completely nonthreatening and doesn’t look like he could hold his own against a really upset grandmother. What is even more odd is that overall body mass has increased over time but where is the muscle mass or stamina? You see guys on this site claiming they are weighing 220lbs…yet they look soft and anorexic.

How does that happen? I would blame overall lifestyle and even mentality first before I even went to phytoestrogens and degrading plastics. People seem to be getting taller yet weaker. Bigger yet less muscular. The entire social scheme has done a 180 and now every guy actually wants to be smaller and thinner so they look better in cross-gender jeans.[/quote]

I agree. Back in the day, you’d get your ass beat A LOT if you were a male that couldn’t hold his own. I sometimes wish I was growing up 50 years ago when it was not only accepted but EXPECTED for men to act like men. Some dudes at my high school actually SHAVE THEIR GODDAMN LEGS!

[quote]vroom wrote:

Ah well, at least when 90% of the male population turns into non-reproductive non-sexual beings, the remaining men will have a field day![/quote]

LOL good point. Fuck it. We’re not suffering from it.

Take a visit to any college campus in America. Except for the athletes, most of the guys look like out of shape slobs with man boobs or skinny twigs. And this is the age when men are supposed to have hit their physical peak.

Most colleges put absolutely no emphasis on Physical fitness of the student. I was planning on writing a paper for my kinesiology class and just to see what kind of books my college had, I looked up strength training and the like. Almost nothing came up.

All that I could find were some old books written in the 60’s that were hopelessly out of date and had no useful info. Oh yeah there were tons of books on Yoga and stretching though. It’s no surprise that the further pussification of America has led to decreased testosterone levels. Just my 2 cents.

I rarely post on here, but this is a subject that I have discussed with my wife many times and she would completely agree with everyone here.

The main reason I think is environmental. Just look around you. Every where you go, all anyone can say is you shouldn’t act like this or that(meaning anything that involves testosterone).

We all know that your environment can have an impact on your hormone levels. We few that do things that are testosterone laden are just trying to maintain what we can. And honestly, most women like guys that are handy. My wife for example loves that I can work with tools and have spent time in the Marines.

She doesn’t like the time that training for powerlifting sometimes takes away from the family, but at the same time she loves having a big strong man around.

There are people out there that would say something is wrong with you psychologically because I like lifting heavy weights and watching violent television programming and listening to testosterone filled music all the time. To tell the truth I like love songs and other slow songs, but I can only handle it for so long. Something is wrong with me? No, something is wrong with them!

I’m going to stock up on oral test and spike anyones drink who I think needs a test boost. Maybe they’re all counting on that whole “meek shall inherent the world” thing to happen. To be honest, they can have after the strong(and testosterone laden) ravage it into a barren waste land.

That is if the don’t end up on the table as part of the feast.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Also, to go back to the cell phone thing, don’t forget that stress is not just “emergencies”.

Whenever you are interrupted and don’t appreciate receiving a call, that is a form of stress. Loud noise, even background noise, is a form of stress. A lot of things we don’t notice consciously are forms of stress.

If you go back even a generation or two, you’ll find that people were not so attached to communication. There was no Internet. Cell phones didn’t even exist. Yes, it’s true, and it’s not so long ago.

If you lived in the country, you’d simply have to sit outside in the sunshine and find something to do, or die of boredom.

Life is different now. Every ten minutes you can listen to a jet or plane overhead (or landing nearby), trains are zooming around (with those quiet horns they have), people are screeching around in their cars (and getting pissed off at traffic jams and other stupid drivers), phones are ringing incessantly (and half the time it’s a telemarketer calling during dinner), shitty fast food is everywhere (and supposedly good food in the stores is crap), most people have crappy jobs they hate (with evil bosses that are stupid), younger people can sit in school (and fear screwing up their entire future every time they take a test), generally eat pure process crud that doesn’t support healthy bodily function, so it’s no wonder, on the whole, that society has declining testosterone.

Slow down. Relax. Turn off the television, the radio, the MP3 player, the cell phone, the fax, the computer, the game console, and sit outside somewhere that it isn’t overcrowded and enjoy a little bit of nature.

Ah well, at least when 90% of the male population turns into non-reproductive non-sexual beings, the remaining men will have a field day![/quote]

Not bad Vroom, not bad at all.

Maybe the fact that there is really no REASON to have high T anymore has something to do with it?

We don’t have to hunt, we don’t have to gather, we don’t have to climb the freakin’ stairs anymore!

Does anyone work on thier own home? Hardly. Hire a painter, hire a plumber, hire a carpenter, hire a landscaper. Call AAA with a flat tire.

I just did a complete tune-up on my 4x4. Plugs, wires, cap, rotor etc. I went to work with scraped knuckles and hands that were scrubbed raw to get the grease off. To others it was as if I performed some Hurculean task. “You did WHAT?”

It’s amazing what guys don’t or wont do anymore.

Pathetic.

[quote]lifter1 wrote:
I rarely post on here, but this is a subject that I have discussed with my wife many times and she would completely agree with everyone here.

The main reason I think is environmental. Just look around you. Every where you go, all anyone can say is you shouldn’t act like this or that(meaning anything that involves testosterone).

We all know that your environment can have an impact on your hormone levels. We few that do things that are testosterone laden are just trying to maintain what we can. And honestly, most women like guys that are handy. My wife for example loves that I can work with tools and have spent time in the Marines.

She doesn’t like the time that training for powerlifting sometimes takes away from the family, but at the same time she loves having a big strong man around.

There are people out there that would say something is wrong with you psychologically because I like lifting heavy weights and watching violent television programming and listening to testosterone filled music all the time. To tell the truth I like love songs and other slow songs, but I can only handle it for so long. Something is wrong with me? No, something is wrong with them!

I’m going to stock up on oral test and spike anyones drink who I think needs a test boost. Maybe they’re all counting on that whole “meek shall inherent the world” thing to happen. To be honest, they can have after the strong(and testosterone laden) ravage it into a barren waste land.

That is if the don’t end up on the table as part of the feast.

[/quote]

Good post.

This is nothing some weights, eating some meat and stop acting a like a pussy wouldn’t fix.

When I was young, I was very small and on the whiny side, say 10 and under. I just got sick of it and decided I wanted to get tougher. So I started to workout.

Wouldn’t you know that trying hard actually works. Now I go a solid 205 at 5’7". I’m not even a “short” guy anymore. I’m what’s considered a big guy. My wife loves my size.

I’m handy enough around the house, make a great steak and some awesome chili, go hunting and love football.

You don’t need to worry about estrogen in cell phone sand plastic if you just try to grow some stones and be a man. the rest will take care of itself.

A few days ago, I had a testosterone filled night.

We ate meat, drank beer, watched “Animals Attack Humans” and finished the night with some UFC.

This should be mandated in households across the US at least bi-monthly. We can even make it a monthly holiday.

[quote]Wiggum88 wrote:
Take a visit to any college campus in America. [/quote]

You’re right.

I think there is some sort of correlation between honor and testosterone. A real man has this sense of honor and will give his life to protect it no matter what the circumstances.

For most people I see today on my college campus, there is no sense of honor. It’s for this same reason that a good friend is coming harder and harder to come by.

For example, I recently had a conversation with a few other guys about someone who implicated another in a crime that he was partly responsible for (with the help of the other guy), but was able to avoid punishment because he snitched.

Both guys that I was talking to agreed that they would have done the same thing when faced with that penalty (10 years). This isn’t a good example, as most criminals have no honor regardless, but I couldn’t help but wonder what happened to a code of honor amongst the guys I was talking to?

Sure they were young college aged guys, but that sense of honor should be something you just have even when you’re going through the confusion that is youth.

I guess it’s not so bad. Some women here still like men. Those are usually the best kind of women, too.

[quote]wressler125 wrote:
A few days ago, I had a testosterone filled night.

We ate meat, drank beer, watched “Animals Attack Humans” and finished the night with some UFC.

This should be mandated in households across the US at least bi-monthly. We can even make it a monthly holiday.[/quote]

I understand the intention of your post. But I cant understand why guy time should be sitting around eating and watching TV. The reality is that this kind of event is already attended by hordes of obese American males. Trust me. Most of America already knows how to sit on their ass, consume food, and watch television. And really, women are already pretty damn good at this too. So I cant see it chasing away America’s disease.

What they dont know how to do is use their bodies. They couldnt play the sports they watch if their lives depended on it. Most of them couldnt even waddle down a field without taking a break. I think a man is what he does. Whether its your job thats fulfilling. Maybe you do meaningful research. Honing your body through sport. Playing football, soccer, or whatever. Or motivating people to change in the political arena. Leading others.

Men get off their asses and get things done. They dont sit around all day developing a huge ass. Guy time should be about getting up and getting something done.

[quote]carter12 wrote:
Wiggum88 wrote:
Take a visit to any college campus in America.

You’re right.

I think there is some sort of correlation between honor and testosterone. A real man has this sense of honor and will give his life to protect it no matter what the circumstances.

For most people I see today on my college campus, there is no sense of honor. It’s for this same reason that a good friend is coming harder and harder to come by.

For example, I recently had a conversation with a few other guys about someone who implicated another in a crime that he was partly responsible for (with the help of the other guy), but was able to avoid punishment because he snitched.

Both guys that I was talking to agreed that they would have done the same thing when faced with that penalty (10 years). This isn’t a good example, as most criminals have no honor regardless, but I couldn’t help but wonder what happened to a code of honor amongst the guys I was talking to?

Sure they were young college aged guys, but that sense of honor should be something you just have even when you’re going through the confusion that is youth.

[/quote]

That could be a whole other topic. There are only two guys I have known in my life who I know for a fact would be there for me if I called them right now. I know one would be on a plane within hours and I would do the same for him. True friendships shouldn’t be taken for granted. However, they don’t just fall out of the sky. Most people aren’t worth trusting. If you find one who is, it would be in both of your best interests to hold on tight to it. I do agree that among the people I do actually call “friends”, there is a bond that would take some above average circumstances to be broken. But I’ve learned that too many people are users and hang around as long as it personally benefits them.

[quote]weightliftr wrote:
amazing how that study correlates so nicely with the feminization of men.

I wonder if a man’s testosterone levels decrease over time if he choses to display stereotypically feminine psychological traits (empathetic, nurturing, etc) instead of masculine ones (aggressive, confident, etc).[/quote]

The ability to empathize and nuture are far from exclusively female traits. There’s a lot of women out there who couldn’t empathize with others if their lives depended on it, nor can they nurture worth a damn. Surges of emotion don’t make for empathy.

Nor would I attribute aggressiveness and confidence as “male” traits. I’ve seen high testosterone men who wear a shell of confidence, but collapse as soon as that bubble is broken. And as we’ve noted on this site again and again, “'roid rage” is mostly a myth. Testosterone has little to do with aggression.

The ability to emphathize is the very core of morality. To write it off as a gender-based attribute is an error. Even displays of emotion: it wasn’t until fairly recently in history that emotional displays in men were considered improper. We can thank Victorian England for that.

Some of the greatest warriors in history and myth were highly emotional individuals. Men who braved certain death with casual disregard were known to weep openly and bitterly at the death of their warhorse. Cast down in heartbreak if rejected by the woman they love, yet crawl through the battlefield covered in mortal wounds to strike one last blow.

To be a man is to simply be a man. It’s a zen puzzle: the answer is in the doing. Only through industrious behaviour and fortitude can we explore our own potential.

Nature makes male and female, society defines masculine and feminine. As far as lower test goes, that mainly due to bad diet, lots of chemicals/medicine, over-processing, lack of exercise. Tell the boys to eat their meat and veggies and go lift weights and play football and they’ll be fine.

This article has got me thinking. Maybe I should stop lusting after younger men and stick to guys my own age, since their testosterone levels are much higher and all.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
This article has got me thinking. Maybe I should stop lusting after younger men and stick to guys my own age, since their testosterone levels are much higher and all.[/quote]

I think the “inevitable” drop in hormone production is mostly a bullshit phenomenon.

Compare the number of teens and young adults in your gym compared to “older” men.

I think test levels would remain on the high end of the scale if people didn’t slow down as they age.

If older folks undertook the right diets, the right workout regimens; no steady state cardio, heavy weights etc. thier test levels would double.

Hell, look at Art DeVany. He doesn’t have ALL the answers but he sure knows his stuff. He’s almost 70 and his test level is in the upper normal range and his insulin level is 3.4. I remember him saying he squats with 315 and I know he rides dirtbikes often.

I get shit from people I know, especially some of those that are of the feminine type for talking about some manly shit. I cant talk like that around some girls I know because they want the men to be like they are being talked about on this thread.

In media especially, I’ve noticed that men are being completely phased out in having any control in a relationship (not saying women cant have any contol, but it looks like the men are little kids that the woman has to take care of). They are made out to look like idiots and the only reason they are alive is because they have a woman in their lives. They are perceived as just sitting on the couch watching football drooling while the woman is doing things and is being productive.

[quote]Boyder326 wrote:
I get shit from people I know, especially some of those that are of the feminine type for talking about some manly shit. I cant talk like that around some girls I know because they want the men to be like they are being talked about on this thread.

In media especially, I’ve noticed that men are being completely phased out in having any control in a relationship (not saying women cant have any contol, but it looks like the men are little kids that the woman has to take care of). They are made out to look like idiots and the only reason they are alive is because they have a woman in their lives. They are perceived as just sitting on the couch watching football drooling while the woman is doing things and is being productive.[/quote]

Like Homer Simpson, right?