[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
prisoner - I know you don’t like people bastardizing your shit so I am sorry but I am curious about this. I think the protocol can be better somehow.[/quote]
Reread the thread, I did state that HCG use was acceptable for the stated purpose during the cycle, but to be discontinued during the waiting period.
No problems with any hcg protocol during the cycle, as the six week waiting period will return the leydig receptors to normal anyway.
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
The taper just makes good physiological sense to me. I’m a systems engineer by trade and so my thinking is mired in feedback control. The whole endocrine system is basically just one complicated feedback control system. One person’s system is not exactly the same as another’s, but the basic principles of how to coax it to work again must be the same; only the dosages and durations would differ.
Then again, like Bushy stated, the traditional PCT of using a SERM with or without an AI with or without HCG has been good for many…me included. I personally cannot dismiss the traditional approaches because of this.
But when it comes down to $$, the taper is WAY cheaper…at least for me compared to the traditional approaches. So, this is why I personally will use the taper whenever I go back on again.
Prisoner has shared some very intriguing research info with respect to the use of 100 mg T/week + SERM and it not effecting the HPTA. The number of “100” obviously is an average, and different levels will effect different people’s HPTA differently. Though I’m notorious for my use of low dosages, I had never really tried just around 100 mg T + SERM to see how it effected my HPTA. This is now just as intriguing to me as my potential 1000 mg/week of T cycle I have been planning on doing.
Then again…I’m still sort of liking my “natural” status these days…[/quote]
You aren’t natural, so don’t even pretend to be. If you have any residual size gains that were attained through AAS use you are not natural.
This is a big problem we have in the tested ‘natural’ bodybuilding events. They should be for athletes who are strictly natural from the get go,no athletes who sauced for a long time, then reconverted to being natural, as they always hold a lot of residual size that the real natural athletes could never attain.
Contrl, you’re right that we need different opinions and open discussions here. But a good reason to sticky this IMO is because very few people (from other boards or “out there in the real world”) know about it. The “traditional” 3 weeks PCT of Nolva or Clomid is common knoweldge while this is not.
Also, most people hearing “Taper” have a knee jerk reaction that “it has been discarded”, “it has been shown it doesnt work” etc. because they think it’s the 800mg to 600mg to 400mg etc approach, and not the 6 weeks at 100mg followed by a taper with very low numbers.
No one is saying it’s the only way to end a cycle, but the reasons above combined with many favorable experiences posted make it “sticky material”.
[quote]Prisoner wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:
prisoner - I know you don’t like people bastardizing your shit so I am sorry but I am curious about this. I think the protocol can be better somehow.
Reread the thread, I did state that HCG use was acceptable for the stated purpose during the cycle, but to be discontinued during the waiting period.
No problems with any hcg protocol during the cycle, as the six week waiting period will return the leydig receptors to normal anyway.[/quote]
oops. my bad. i re-read your original post and sure enough it’s in there.
[quote]Prisoner wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
The taper just makes good physiological sense to me. I’m a systems engineer by trade and so my thinking is mired in feedback control. The whole endocrine system is basically just one complicated feedback control system. One person’s system is not exactly the same as another’s, but the basic principles of how to coax it to work again must be the same; only the dosages and durations would differ.
Then again, like Bushy stated, the traditional PCT of using a SERM with or without an AI with or without HCG has been good for many…me included. I personally cannot dismiss the traditional approaches because of this.
But when it comes down to $$, the taper is WAY cheaper…at least for me compared to the traditional approaches. So, this is why I personally will use the taper whenever I go back on again.
Prisoner has shared some very intriguing research info with respect to the use of 100 mg T/week + SERM and it not effecting the HPTA. The number of “100” obviously is an average, and different levels will effect different people’s HPTA differently. Though I’m notorious for my use of low dosages, I had never really tried just around 100 mg T + SERM to see how it effected my HPTA. This is now just as intriguing to me as my potential 1000 mg/week of T cycle I have been planning on doing.
Then again…I’m still sort of liking my “natural” status these days…
You aren’t natural, so don’t even pretend to be. If you have any residual size gains that were attained through AAS use you are not natural.
This is a big problem we have in the tested ‘natural’ bodybuilding events. They should be for athletes who are strictly natural from the get go,no athletes who sauced for a long time, then reconverted to being natural, as they always hold a lot of residual size that the real natural athletes could never attain.
[/quote]
Relax dude…I meant “natural” as in not using anything pharmaceutical now. I don’t foster any thoughts of thinking of myself as a “natural” athlete. And yes, I am living proof that residual size attained from the usage of pharmaceuticals can be held for an extended period of time. A very long time if you keep training and diet up and make intelligent adjustments to these important things.
I do understand the sensitivity though to the use of the word “natural”, especially in the “natural” bodybuilding sense. I am in agreement with you with respect to your comments on this above.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
SwD wrote:
Also, most people hearing “Taper” have a knee jerk reaction that “it has been discarded”, “it has been shown it doesnt work” etc. because they think it’s the 800mg to 600mg to 400mg etc approach, and not the 6 weeks at 100mg followed by a taper with very low numbers.
".
And that’s the only reason I started calling it the ‘stasis taper’. I saw it as a way to try and get past the initial close-minded response of anyone who is not on this board, basically.
If you tell someone they should use a taper, they laugh. If you add in a fancy word and say ‘stasis taper’ they at least pause long enought to listen to the theory.
Perhaps I should start calling it the ‘homeostasis taper’ instead, and write a book, hahaha.
Bushy[/quote]
Too late! I just sent in the info yesterday for a copywrite!
lol!
Just wait for a while and re-discover it with a different name, just like everything else in the strength & muscle business. 
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
pushharder wrote:
One thing I know for sure, this guy I know is hornier on the 50mg Test E/50 mg Mast E stasis than he was when on 600 Test E/400 Mast E during his cycle.
How’s that?
I notice similar effects Vs dose. I suspect 2 mechanisms.
‘Too much of a good thing’. What I mean is that super high levels of androgens isn’t always a recipie for super high libido.
Elevated or fluctuating estrogen levels during the cycle affecting libido.
Could be wrong though.
Bushy[/quote]
Makes good sense, thanks Bushy.
TBN
Bushy, as you said, estrogen plays a huge role in the sex drive (and everything else). I think too many people discredit the balance of all the hormones in favor of high testosterone. These are also the people who can load up on 2+ grams per week and not see any significant gains, but the next guy is getting huge on 500mg/wk with a proper balance of all hormones. I’ll also say that I find it harder to control the balance at higher doses of AAS.
If the taper has taught me anything, it’ that some of my gains (and sex drive, aggression, etc.) are the best after beginning the taper. Since then I’ve run my cycles at comparatively much lower doses, and have done just as well. A lot of us more experienced guys had a conversation here a while back on the less-is-more typic, so you know all about it. But for those that aren’t familiar with it, it’s worth looking in to.
Guys
I’m thinking of doing the taper this time round - problem I have is that im using 1ml amps - so; how do I store the shots once I have drawn off from each amp with the desired amount needed?
Any help would be great.
Get your hands on a sterile sealed vial, and transfer all your oil into the vial.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
And if you can’t do that, then backfill several insulin syringes with your split dose (eg 50mg x 5 syringes), and store in the fridge. Just make sure you warm them through before injecting.[/quote]
So using insulin needles is the trick then to accurately measure out those tiny doses in the taper? Didn’t think of it… I figured that you all just used your manstincts to eye it out 
Id also suggest warming the test prior to backfilling the syringes. Makes things much eaiser.