Test Results: Thyroid Problem?

Pharma TRT
41

[quote]Retinoid wrote:

High cortisol will usually interfere with the conversion of t4 into t3 which you don’t seem to have an issue with. Do you have symptoms of high cortisol? Like having very skinny arms/legs with stubborn stomach fat, mood swings, hair loss, not being able to build muscle very well?
[/quote]

Yes, yes, no, N/A (I think I have a hard time building muscle… but it isn’t exactly “easy” for anyone. For reference I’m 6’3" 215lb and it is taking me 4500cals to bulk… I was 195-200lbs eating like 3000 cals/day maintenance)

[quote]Retinoid wrote:
Of course a 24hr saliva test would be best, but if you have symptoms maybe taking something to reduce your cortisol may help such as phosphatidylserine and taking b complexes two to three times a day (with vitamin c) as well as increasing EFAs. At least on a trial basis to see how it would make you feel.
[/quote]

I take Vit C postworkout and get a decent amount of EFA (borage oil, coconut oil daily along with Flameout from Biotest).

[quote]Retinoid wrote:

Problem with testing stuff now while recovering from illness is that everything will be out of wack and cortisol will most likely be high (as it is a stress hormone).

My suggestion is to start taking nature’s way kelp (like 6 a day) to see how this makes you feel. This is only like 3mg of iodine. Then retest later after your illness. Cortisol may be causing issues for you. The infection seems strange as your WBC wasn’t that high…in fact it was on the low end. [/quote]

Agreed about the top part, which i why I want to wait a week or two before further blood tests.

I did not think about the WBC test, good call there. Not sure how to explain that.

42

[quote]scj119 wrote:
However my bodyfat is pretty much all in my stomach which I wouldn’t expect with high E2.

[/quote]

According to calipers at last check, I was about 19% BF…my arms and legs are very lean (can barely get a thigh pinch)…if you take out my abdominal measure and replace it with something in scale with the other measurements, I drop down to 10%…

I have high E2…

43

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
However my bodyfat is pretty much all in my stomach which I wouldn’t expect with high E2.

[/quote]

According to calipers at last check, I was about 19% BF…my arms and legs are very lean (can barely get a thigh pinch)…if you take out my abdominal measure and replace it with something in scale with the other measurements, I drop down to 10%…

I have high E2…

[/quote]

My arms are skinny and even with working them out they still look thin while the weight is concentrated in the breast and stomach area. However I lost 4 pounds without changing anything with adding the Armour. I thought I could have a cortisol issue but maybe I have an estrogen issue too…it is so annoying especially since I am going to a doctor not that knowledgeable about hormones but he is open minded.

44

We share a lot of symptoms you and I, and I was like “holy shit” when I read your opening post. We don’t seem to share lab values however. All this stuff can be a real mindfuck.

I have a high TSH but high T4 too. Still waiting for my bloodwork to come back and about RT3, which my doc seems to think is the issue.

Anyway, good luck to you. I don’t really have anything of value to post but I can definitely emphathize with your situation.

45

OP:

[Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.]

Although you now have two very different TSH readings, do not mistake a blood test for your actual state of health or needs. Your consistently low body temps (< 98 deg F) STRONGLY indicates hypothyroid. Synthroid - or other synthetic T4 - does NOT adequately treat most hypo patients. Armour is an option. Endocrinologists were of limited help to me; I finally found a holistic M.D. who put me on Sustained-release T3. Your high reverse T3 + low temp makes me think of Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/ (Note: not to be confused with Wilson’s Disease, a copper thing). Make sure to look under “for patients” tab there and read the free online book.

Iodized salt: Iodine is volatile, meaning it goes right from solid to gas at room temp w/o being liquid in between. This means a package of iodized salt will have no iodine in it about a month after seal is broken. I have been taking Iodoral 12 mg once per day for a year and a half, like it. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/iodine.htm

Your OP also made me think your adrenals are over-worked; pantothenic acid (vit B5) 250-500 mg per day can help with that. Also whole eggs.

Your doctor seems awesome; good find! Maybe a little test-happy. (Continue to think for yourself of course - you are paying doc to perform a service for you, you don’t have to obey recommendations.)

Your T is over 500, and free T is in normal range; once you get thyroid and adrenal situated, I think T will work it’s thing.

46

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
However my bodyfat is pretty much all in my stomach which I wouldn’t expect with high E2.

[/quote]

According to calipers at last check, I was about 19% BF…my arms and legs are very lean (can barely get a thigh pinch)…if you take out my abdominal measure and replace it with something in scale with the other measurements, I drop down to 10%…

I have high E2…
[/quote]

I associate E2 with breast/love handle fat (I’ve been known to be wrong before), but regardless, judging by my mood issues alone, high E2 is very much a possibility (and something that has been on my radar ever since my first test got me thinking about sex hormones). It will definitely be a part of my next round of tests, whether I pay for it or UHC does.

Edit: My bellyfat is more visceral than subcutaneous

47

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
We share a lot of symptoms you and I, and I was like “holy shit” when I read your opening post. We don’t seem to share lab values however. All this stuff can be a real mindfuck.

I have a high TSH but high T4 too. Still waiting for my bloodwork to come back and about RT3, which my doc seems to think is the issue.

Anyway, good luck to you. I don’t really have anything of value to post but I can definitely emphathize with your situation. [/quote]

FWIW, I was convinced I had high RT3 given my first set of labs and symptoms… and was surprised I didn’t.

48

[quote]SuperFast wrote:
OP:

[Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.]

Although you now have two very different TSH readings, do not mistake a blood test for your actual state of health or needs. Your consistently low body temps (< 98 deg F) STRONGLY indicates hypothyroid. Synthroid - or other synthetic T4 - does NOT adequately treat most hypo patients. Armour is an option. Endocrinologists were of limited help to me; I finally found a holistic M.D. who put me on Sustained-release T3. Your high reverse T3 + low temp makes me think of Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/ (Note: not to be confused with Wilson’s Disease, a copper thing). Make sure to look under “for patients” tab there and read the free online book.

Iodized salt: Iodine is volatile, meaning it goes right from solid to gas at room temp w/o being liquid in between. This means a package of iodized salt will have no iodine in it about a month after seal is broken. I have been taking Iodoral 12 mg once per day for a year and a half, like it. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/iodine.htm

Your OP also made me think your adrenals are over-worked; pantothenic acid (vit B5) 250-500 mg per day can help with that. Also whole eggs.

Your doctor seems awesome; good find! Maybe a little test-happy. (Continue to think for yourself of course - you are paying doc to perform a service for you, you don’t have to obey recommendations.)

Your T is over 500, and free T is in normal range; once you get thyroid and adrenal situated, I think T will work it’s thing.[/quote]

I did not know that about iodine. I buy the large sized iodine salt containers and it lasts me for months.

My cortisol was most likely high because my body was fighting off Epstein-Barr. I will get it tested again after I kick this shit.

Yeah, my free T is “in range”… but as a 26yr old male I should not be at the bottom of the range. Especially considering my total T is smack in the middle. Makes me wonder where all that T goes since it isn’t ending up as free T…

Thanks for the inputs. I’m gonna think about an iodine supp.

Edit: I agree about the low body temps. I was thinking about that today and concluded that any and all measurements are suspect given how much Epstein-Barr can affect your body.

49

Holy fucking shit, I just got a call from my doctor. They are “training someone new” in the lab and don’t want me to come in for the IV for 2 weeks.

WHAT THE FUCK

50

Potassium iodide/iodate will not evaporate, free iodine does. Not a real concern.

Best way to get DHT as low as possible is castration.

51

Mini Update: I had my peroxide IV today to clear the EBV. I have a followup consult one week from today. I am really hoping this will help my energy levels but I do not think it’s the source of all my symptoms from the OP.

I am begining to think my doc, while a sweetheart, is a nincompoop. She misspelled a couple things on my last order sheet… she apparently marked down the WRONG solution on my fucking lab order. The lab techs were like “she ordered xyz, but we usually dissolve it in a different solution, so we’re calling her to make sure that’s what she meant” and made me wait about 20 minutes. She typed out my family history wrong (told her my granddad had serious GI issues and even got himself screened for cancer, and she wrote it was my dad - also got my mom’s side wrong). She just seems a bit absent minded, not to mention, on my 2nd visit she forgot a couple things from my first visit (is this normal for docs who have a lot of patients? I don’t know.)

Anyway, next Fri is her last chance. She actually seems somewhat competent with thyroid/adrenals but over her head with Test/sex hormones. Besides being clueless on DHT, she said either FSH or LH (I forget which) was a somewhat useless test for men(!). I’m going to request the following tests, because they need to be done all at once instead of spread over 3 diff tests:

SEX HORMONES - I need to figure out where my T is going. Mid range TT, very low FT back in April.
TT
FT
E2 ← expect to be high
SHBG
DHT (do I need this tested at the same time as T, or am I good with just one DHT test?)
(not testing: FSH, LH, DHEA-S. Testing these one time is good enough, right?)

THYROID/ADRENAL
cortisol 4-point saliva
TSH
–will prob request FT3, FT4 and RT3, which she will push back on because we just tested RT3. I think it’s crucial to test FT3/RT3 at the same time, though. The question is how much will my shitty healthcare pay for, they have been really stingy.

Am I missing anything glaring? After these tests I’m going to add some foods/supps to my diet per some recent John Meadows articles to help with thyroid/adrenal function, however I want to get some “baseline” values first.

I admittedly have been very passive in requesting tests that she hasn’t recommended. This is a case where I am not following the advice I have given to others…it is hard to be objective about yourself.

52

Your cold hands and feet symptom sounds all to similar to what I had. But your TSH is not as high as mine was (could be irrelevant anyway). Anyway, the only way I seemed to remedy the coldness and low waking body temperatures was taking more T4. Went from 50mcg to 100mcg and it did make a difference with my waking body temps. However felt shitty after that and now I have some T3 added. Might be something to consider in the future if you have issues with your TSH. Oh and your TSH values can change throughout the day. My endo mentioned that you can swing from HYPO to HYPER even if you are HYPO. Just depends when the test was taken.

Constant fatigue could be glandular fever (mononucleosis), had that and that was incredible how tired a person can feel so quickly. Has that been ruled out?

The only other thing I can think of that I have found out is sleep apnea. Could this be causing your fatigue issues? Do you snore? It apparently also can have direct results on testosterone whether free testosterone or total testosterone not sure. But that video posted on this site in a thread brought it up.

In my training thread you seemed to come across that you are doing great with your low free testosterone. But it seems like you think that it might be an issue? Honestly, I think there could be a big chance that Testosterone and maybe free testosterone play a major role if they are on the lowish end. This is just going by what I have read and listened too. I think I read somewhere that protein synthesis can be severely impeded with low testosterone.

I will be interested to see your latest results, I get mine on Monday what I am most interested in is our E2 figures, because we both have lowish free testosterone.

Edit - I saw your posts about you having mono maybe. Seeing that is recent your fatigue might be from that no doubt. When I had mono I tested positive to antibodies EBV specifically - anti-VCA IgM. Diet 4-6 months and I still felt shitty after that for a while. I kind of wonder if mono ever really gets out of your system. My liver values have elevated markers ever since, maybe my cholesterol is stuffed from that too, that is just hypothetical.

I would probably ask for Progesterone as well since you are going in.

53

That’s the thing - my energy levels are so low to begin with, I never noticed I had it. It could’ve been a month or 3 years I honestly have no clue.

My training is going fine with Low T (in terms of hitting PRs and gaining muscle), but I’m constantly fatigued and have ED… not to mention that, while I desire sex, I am completely passive about obtaining it. I’m not trying to brag but I’ve been told by a large percentage of girls I’ve been with that I’m an attractive guy - yet I haven’t been laid in like 9 months. I live in a city full of beautiful women as well.

I snore sometimes, my sleeping sucks. I can sleep 9 hours and not feel refreshed. I’m not any more tired at 11pm than I am at 11am (pretty much equally tired all day long).

My weight loss diet last summer lasted about 3-4 months and I lost 30lbs.

I don’t think taking t4 would help as my FT4/FT3 are good. IF I have any problem, it would be high RT3 and I would need t3-only. But given that Epstein-Barr jacked up my cortisol, I think all my thyroid numbers to date have been unreliable. I need to get them tested with this virus in the rear view mirror.

I might ask for progesterone, I haven’t decided. I’m trying to keep to basics as much as possible because United Healthcare sucks balls.

54

[quote]scj119 wrote:
That’s the thing - my energy levels are so low to begin with, I never noticed I had it. It could’ve been a month or 3 years I honestly have no clue.

My training is going fine with Low T (in terms of hitting PRs and gaining muscle), but I’m constantly fatigued and have ED… not to mention that, while I desire sex, I am completely passive about obtaining it. I’m not trying to brag but I’ve been told by a large percentage of girls I’ve been with that I’m an attractive guy - yet I haven’t been laid in like 9 months. I live in a city full of beautiful women as well.

I snore sometimes, my sleeping sucks. I can sleep 9 hours and not feel refreshed. I’m not any more tired at 11pm than I am at 11am (pretty much equally tired all day long).

My weight loss diet last summer lasted about 3-4 months and I lost 30lbs.

I don’t think taking t4 would help as my FT4/FT3 are good. IF I have any problem, it would be high RT3 and I would need t3-only. But given that Epstein-Barr jacked up my cortisol, I think all my thyroid numbers to date have been unreliable. I need to get them tested with this virus in the rear view mirror.

I might ask for progesterone, I haven’t decided. I’m trying to keep to basics as much as possible because United Healthcare sucks balls.[/quote]

Your symptoms do come across Hypo not feeling refreshed in the morning, suffered that. I also had great Ft3 and Ft4 numbers but T4 did help and noticed it. But after going up in dosage to 100mcg not much change and I think that the sweet spot will be getting the T3 medication dosage correct.

Yeah try and get as many tests you can makes it easier for you in the long run.

55

[quote]scj119 wrote:
I live in a city full of beautiful women as well.

[/quote]

Meh…the talent level around here is decent, at best…the hot ones are so dumb that you want to beat them with a stick first…

GET ALL THE LAB TESTS THAT YOU CAN!!!

There is no reason not to as long as your insurance is paying for it…it is vital for painting an accurate picture and understanding how your PERSONAL feedback loops operates…get everything you possibly can

56

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
I live in a city full of beautiful women as well.

[/quote]

Meh…the talent level around here is decent, at best…the hot ones are so dumb that you want to beat them with a stick first…

GET ALL THE LAB TESTS THAT YOU CAN!!!

There is no reason not to as long as your insurance is paying for it…it is vital for painting an accurate picture and understanding how your PERSONAL feedback loops operates…get everything you possibly can[/quote]

Dude I totally agree, but with how stingy United Healthcare has been I have to at least consider prioritizing. I’d like to add progesterone/pregnenalone if I can as well.

57

OK, had a doc visit today. She isn’t half as bad as some docs on this site, but she aint perfect either. On the plus side, she is open to running any test I want to run (in addition to the ones she wants to run herself). I’m getting tested out the ass soon (literally in some cases), here’s the lowdown:

I’m doing some liver cleansing procedure. I haven’t finished reading through the document yet, but she thinks it’s possible my liver is at fault (given my suspicion of high E2 and my high-ish bilirubin on my first test, it seems plausible enough).

Also, she is ordering me to poop into some containers and have it run through a lab for a full diagnostic workup. Fun!

Upcoming bloodwork: Ferritin, homocysteine plasma, iron and Total Iron Binding Capacity, c-reactive protein, Vit d-25 hydroxy, --also Vit D, 1, 25-hydroxy-- (she told me to stop vit D supplements for a week before these tests, something about measuring the ratio of the two of them to see how I’m absorbing it, does that make sense? All I know about is Vit D3 25-OH)… continuing on… TSH, FT3, FT4, SHBG, lipid panel with Total CHOL:HDL ratio, Total/Free T, pregnenolone, progesterone, E2, IGF-1, Growth Hormone, 8am cortisol (the saliva test is over $200 out of pocket). This does not include all the GI tests ordered as well.

Looks like a pretty full workup to me… I’m excited. I will post lab results in 2-3 weeks hopefully.

58

So… my “liver cleanse” involves 3 fucking days of me eating little-to-nothing, drinking organic un-pasteurized apple juice by the quart. Wtf is this bs? Basically a three day fast followed by me taking epsom salt 4x over 2 days, and I’m supposed to poop out a bunch of gallstones.

I have never heard of this procedure in my life. My doc wants me to do it before I get my blood drawn so we can see if my liver is the problem. Has anyone heard of this shit before? It seems insane. I’m supposed to go from eating 4,500 calories/day to like 400? How am I supposed to go into WORK when I am in a hunger-induced zombie state of mind? It didn’t say if I’m even allowed caffeine but I doubt it.

Cliffs notes: WTF?

59

[quote]scj119 wrote:
So… my “liver cleanse” involves 3 fucking days of me eating little-to-nothing, drinking organic un-pasteurized apple juice by the quart. Wtf is this bs? Basically a three day fast followed by me taking epsom salt 4x over 2 days, and I’m supposed to poop out a bunch of gallstones.

I have never heard of this procedure in my life. My doc wants me to do it before I get my blood drawn so we can see if my liver is the problem. Has anyone heard of this shit before? It seems insane. I’m supposed to go from eating 4,500 calories/day to like 400? How am I supposed to go into WORK when I am in a hunger-induced zombie state of mind? It didn’t say if I’m even allowed caffeine but I doubt it.

Cliffs notes: WTF?[/quote]

LOL.

Sounds like fun.

60

Reading your thread is almost like reading about myself (with a few differences though).

I might have missed it, but what does your diet look like? I know my energy levels have improved since getting on the AD. Only problem is that some nights I just can’t fall asleep, no matter how tired I am. That goes away in a hurry on carb up day, THEN it’s all I can do to keep my eyes open after 8pm.

Anyway, yeah my energy levels have been much more stable on the the AD.