waking body temps under 97.3 - 97.6 = symptom of hypothyroidism
body temps not averaging 98.6 = symptom of hypothyroidism
[quote]PureChance wrote:
waking body temps under 97.3 - 97.6 = symptom of hypothyroidism
body temps not averaging 98.6 = symptom of hypothyroidism
[/quote]
That is what my suspicion is, thanks. At this point I am assuming hypothyroidism is my main enemy right now, but I am concerned/confused about my high cortisol and by my low total cholesterol considering I eat animal meat by the pound.
Anyway - I will stick only to major updates (or surprising test results) from here on, mainly as a repository of information to point people to if they have similar issues and it can be of further help.
Thanks to all who chimed in.
I am lucky that Dr. Rind not only works in DC, but has his office located right next to a metro stop ( www.drrind.com ). I am hopeful.
The best way to sort this out and this is from my own experience. Go to a Thyroid specialist. I went many many years ago and I am sure that testing is different today. When I went, only because my blood work came up normal, but I knew there was something wrong.
They do a radioactive scan of the gland itself, as I mentioned I am sure things have changed this was thirty years ago. Cold hands is a sign, lathargic is also, body temp being colder then normal. As for the meds to to stick with Armour brand as apposed to synthriod. Synthroid doesnt have a wide range of the T levels and also is out of your system quickly. Where the Armour is natural and covers wider range of T levels and more costly.
hey man, I checked out Dr. Rind’s site and it looks like he is up to speed (or maybe he just agrees with my line of thinking so I give him credit for being smart!)…have you had your appointment with him yet? I’d be curious to see how it goes…feel free to shoot me a PM if you don’t want to give the report up here…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
hey man, I checked out Dr. Rind’s site and it looks like he is up to speed (or maybe he just agrees with my line of thinking so I give him credit for being smart!)…have you had your appointment with him yet? I’d be curious to see how it goes…feel free to shoot me a PM if you don’t want to give the report up here…
[/quote]
He is booked for months, they referred me to his associate (who is also cheaper). I would assume he believes in the same things, though I won’t know till I go. Filling out new patient forms etc. tonight (took them several days to get back to me with this stuff).
According to the scales listed on his site though, my T3 is fairly high too (with optimal t4) so I have no idea what is going on. Hopefully I can schedule this shit quick. I have no problem sharing results here as they come.
One thing I will be interested in is how much food I will require to gain muscle after treatment (if I am indeed hypothyroid). It just doesnt seem like I should need 4300 cals/day at my size (6’3" 215lb) considering I am not an “ectomorph” and have never once seen my abs.
4300 calories a day really isn’t all that much food man…if you have a small frame and bone structure, then you will probably need to push 5000 for a good bulk…for example, im dieting at around 3300 and only losing about 1.5 pounds a week…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
4300 calories a day really isn’t all that much food man…if you have a small frame and bone structure, then you will probably need to push 5000 for a good bulk…for example, im dieting at around 3300 and only losing about 1.5 pounds a week…[/quote]
Fair enough. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a complaint - I love food. More just wondering out loud if I’ll have to dial it down if I go on synthroid or somethin like that. Also I was blown away by Shelby’s article about a “bulking diet” being 3200 calories for someone with 200lbs LBM…seems insanely low even though it’s targeted at former fat bodies.
Anyway, back on topic… I have upped my vit D intake, am filling out the patient forms as we speak, and hopefully the next time I update this thread I will have a doc visit under my belt. I have been incredibly busy with work and home life lately but that is no excuse, I need to get this shit figured out.
OP, are you using iodized salt?
[quote]KSman wrote:
OP, are you using iodized salt?[/quote]
Yes, and I salt pretty much every meal with it.
Getting an appointment is getting really Fing frustrating.
Update: I am going in for a Doc visit on Wednesday. Dr. Rind (www.drrind.com) was booked for a couple months and referred me to an associate he works with (who is also cheaper). I am hoping she is open-minded.
Anyway, I am writing up a list of additional tests I would like. Let me know if I am forgetting anything that looks important.
Repeats: Vit D, FT3, FT4, TSH
New (Thyroid): RT3, Thyroid Antibodies (ATA
OK, I’m trying this again. Sorry if it’s a repeat but T-Nation keeps eating half my post.
Update: I am going in for a Doc visit on Wednesday. Dr. Rind (www.drrind.com) was booked for a couple months and referred me to an associate he works with (who is also cheaper). I am hoping she is open-minded.
Anyway, I am writing up a list of additional tests I would like. Let me know if I am forgetting anything that looks important.
Repeats: Vit D, FT3, FT4, TSH
New (Thyroid): RT3, Thyroid Antibodies, Ferritin
New (Adrenal): 4-point cortisol saliva test
New (Digestive): antigladen IgA and IgC, Deamidated Gliadin Peptide IgG & IgA, Total Serum IgA
Other: Vitamin B12
Question: Should I re-test Total/Free Testosterone? I have devoted most of my free time to researching Thyroid issues because that needs to be fixed first; and because I can only find one source on “normal” test values and hate to rely on just a single source. (values posted below) Do my free/total T look ok for a 26-year old? Free T in particular looks low considering the reference range (shouldn’t I be on the high end?). Following that - is it necessary at this point for me to test FSH, LH, and E2?
Previous results:
Testosterone, Serum - 562 ng/dL [249-836]
Free Testosterone(Direct) - 11.7 pg/mL [9.3-26.5]
Edit: T-Nation cut off half my post at first
I would add the following to the celiacs panel (as indicator of villi damage):
-Anti-tissue Transglutaminase Antibody (tTG) IgA
-Anti-endomysial (EMA)
Your Free T is on the low end, but if you have a true thyroid/adrenal problem that could likely be the cause (T dumping to E2). I always recommend getting as many blood tests as possible since more data points give you more insight into what’s going on, so if your doc will go for it, then do it up. Your doc shouldn’t have problems running these since your Free T is definitely concerning for a 26 year old.
I probably wouldn’t push for LH/FSH since your testicles seem to be producing adequate Total T, but in order to figure out why your Free T is low, you should definitely check SHBG and E2–these should give you a great deal of insight.
Also DHEA-S to see what your downstream (Preg->DHEA->Test) hormones look like.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would add the following to the celiacs panel (as indicator of villi damage):
-Anti-tissue Transglutaminase Antibody (tTG) IgA
-Anti-endomysial (EMA)
Your Free T is on the low end, but if you have a true thyroid/adrenal problem that could likely be the cause (T dumping to E2). I always recommend getting as many blood tests as possible since more data points give you more insight into what’s going on, so if your doc will go for it, then do it up. Your doc shouldn’t have problems running these since your Free T is definitely concerning for a 26 year old.
I probably wouldn’t push for LH/FSH since your testicles seem to be producing adequate Total T, but in order to figure out why your Free T is low, you should definitely check SHBG and E2–these should give you a great deal of insight.
Also DHEA-S to see what your downstream (Preg->DHEA->Test) hormones look like.[/quote]
Edit: I initially posted that I had taken tTG/IGA, I didn’t notice you suggested anti-tTG/IGA.
I started taking betaine HCL this week, per PureChance’s suggestion, and it seems to be helping. 2 pills upset my stomach but 1 pill I couldn’t feel at all, and my indigestion seems to have subsided a bit. I only ordered one bottle to start with, and of course keep forgetting to bring it in to work with me, where I eat 3 times.
Also, I finally talked to my father about his specific thyroid issues. He had a benign tumor that was removed, leaving him with half a thyroid. He was given Synthroid so that his thyroid wouldn’t be required to produce t4 anymore (this is paraphrased, what his doctor told him directly). He was dosed synthroid based on achieving a TSH level - I don’t know what TSH level he was dosing to, but I know they also based it on how he felt and not JUST the lab value. However, he never had anything tested besides TSH.
I don’t know much about tumors - could he have Hashimoto’s or hyperthyroidism? He didn’t know the cause of the tumor either.
Doc appt in a few hours, I’ll report back tonight or tomorrow.
Ok wtf T-Nation needs to stop eating my posts in this thread.
Doc appt went well. Gonna summarize a long post now because I don’t feel like typing it again.
Doc shared a lot of my concerns… thinks my RT3 is probably sky high which I agree with (high TSH, optimal T4 and plenty T3 in my labs). She is concerned about my high cortisol and thinks I might be on the verge of an adrenal crash. She is also concerned about my lack of CHOL… saying the body can’t do much without cholesterol. She thinks that my GI problems are causing my body not to absorb fats correctly which is feeding my low CHOL - either due to an infection or a parasite. But she says she needs way more information before she really knows if my GI issues are causing my hormone/thyroid issues, or vice versa. She is also concerned that I am having some knee problems and ED problems, given that I am 26 and not 62.
She ordered a crapload of tests, and honestly I kind of froze as she ran through them and didn’t speak up like I should have since she seemed more on top of it than me. But she ordered the main ones I wanted so I’m ok with it - RT3, Thyroid antibodies, vit b12 were important to me. Also, she added FSH/LH, DHEAs, TSI, and about 8 more tests (mainly for antibodies and infections).
I will not keep bumping my own thread - I’ll update with lab results in about 2 weeks, and will respond if anyone has questions/comments. Other than that the updates will be driven by content and not rambling.
Sounds like you got yourself a winner man…that’s awesome that she seems to be up to speed…
I don’t necessarily agree with her on the CHOL issue, because it doesn’t look TOO low to me, only slightly slow…she has a point about the absorption issues though and they could definitely be causing the lower CHOL…
I too would be concerned about your high cortisol…to me it indicates your body is trying to fight off something. What? Not sure…hopefully she can figure it out!
Keep us posted man…
Updated Labs and doc visit yesterday. I’m going to post the labs, bold the things I want to talk about, then sum it up below.
6/10/11
TSH, 1.6 uIU/mL [.5 - 4.5]
Reverse T3, 232 pg/mL [90 - 350]
ACTH, 40.5 pg/ML [7.2 - 63.3]
DHEAs, 363.7 ug/dL [160 - 449]
Vitamin B12, 809 pg/ML [211 - 946]
Folate (Folic Acid), serum, 9.9 ng/mL [ >3.0]
LH, 3.9 mIU/mL [1.7 - 8.6]
FSH, 3.5 mIU/mL [1.5 - 12.4]
Dihydrotestosterone, 24 ng/dL [30 - 85]
-Tested NEGATIVE for TPO, ATA and TSI (rules out Hashi’s and Grave’s)
-Tested POSITIVE for Epstein-Barr (mono) (WTF?)
-Tested POSITIVE for Mycoplasma pneumoniae (bacteria that attacks joins)
Thoughts:
-
Having Mono explains my high cortisol. High cortisol may have driven my TSH up, etc. etc. This could explain why my TSH was high, and now it is low. Obviously it explains my fatigue HOWEVER, unless this is some chronic or long-term affection that has dogged me for 4+ years, than I am worried that my baseline energy level was so low that I didn’t even notice I had it. It seems unreal to me I could not know this.
-
TSH - why did I bold this, when it looks optimal? Because in the 6 weeks between tests I took no medication for it whatsoever, it randomly went from 3.6 to 1.6. It COULD be explained by mono if I have recently gotten over it - it drove up cortisol and in turn TSH, but now the infection is over so they lowered again - but in my opinion is more likely to be a lab error (dunno whether the high value or low value was the error).
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dihydrotestosterone - my doc told me that you want this value as low as possible, and the fact that it is out of the reference range is not a bad thing. This rang some alarm bells in my head. Nothing in your body is 100% bad. Can someone with more knowledge on it chime in here?
Mycoplasma most likely explains my creaky knees.
For the sake of argument let’s say my TSH really is 1.6. Then why is my free test so low? (on first post, my Free T was at the very bottom of the lab range [11.7, 9.3-26.5], and my total T was in the middle [562, 249-836]). I assumed it was my thyroid causing that, but maybe not.
I think it is best to wait till I clear the mono out of my system (going in for an IV within the next week) until I run another batch of tests. Unfortunately my doc said United Healthcare is actually not that easy to work with, so we have to space out the tests and can’t get everything paid for that we want. That being said I will foot the bill for whatever I have to if I think there’s a serious problem.
If I missed something important, feel free to chime in with that too.
Edit: For my next batch of tests I plan on getting E2, SHBG, Ferritin, Total/Free T, TSH/FT3/FT4, and cortisol (saliva or 8am draw)
Were you diagnosed with mono, or just Epstein Barr? From a quick search, EBV can lead to mono (and a whole host of other nasty things) but having EBV does not necessarily mean you have mono…
Mono can impact the liver, which may hinder your E2 clearance (increased E2), resulting in lower T levels through feedback…something to consider…
It is a shame you couldn’t get all those other (required) tests in this batch to directly correlate…why did they test DHT without Total/Free T and other sex hormones? Doesn’t make a lot of sense, or give me a warm fuzzy about the doctor…
which leads me to:
[quote]
3. dihydrotestosterone - my doc told me that you want this value as low as possible, and the fact that it is out of the reference range is not a bad thing. This rang some alarm bells in my head. Nothing in your body is 100% bad. Can someone with more knowledge on it chime in here? [/quote]
This is VERY concerning, and indicates your doctor is clueless when it comes to DHT response in the body (and may be an idiot…definitely worthy of a mention in the DUMB THINGS DOCTORS DO AND SAY thread)…he is speaking directly from a “dead or alive” standpoint, meaning he is focusing on the things that can kill you (prostate cancer) and not on the benefits of DHT (androgenic benefits, and most importantly LIBIDO)
From a prostate and hairline health standpoint, reducing DHT has been proven to reduce hair loss and reduce the size of enlarged prostate and reduce the risk of prostate cancer…but there are many smart people who think DHT isn’t the cause of these problems though, and that E2 is the cuplprit and reducing DHT reduces E2 by proxy…teenagers are chock full of DHT, and there aren’t many of them running around with balding heads and prostate issues…but as one ages, E2 increases and these conditions start to manifest themselves…hrmmmm
I would be very curious to see your E2…
I do not think your issues are thyroid related…and I don’t think there is a lab error…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Were you diagnosed with mono, or just Epstein Barr? From a quick search, EBV can lead to mono (and a whole host of other nasty things) but having EBV does not necessarily mean you have mono…
Mono can impact the liver, which may hinder your E2 clearance (increased E2), resulting in lower T levels through feedback…something to consider…
[/quote]
Specifically, I tested positive for EBV Ab VCA IgG and EBV Nuclear Antigen Ab IgG. What this means is that I either recently had Epstein-Bar and am getting over it, or I’ve had it for a long while. I tested negative for the acute case of it.
She thinks I got over it sometime in the recent past. I don’t believe it tested mono specifically. The IV I’m getting should take care of it completely though.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
It is a shame you couldn’t get all those other (required) tests in this batch to directly correlate…why did they test DHT without Total/Free T and other sex hormones? Doesn’t make a lot of sense, or give me a warm fuzzy about the doctor…
[/quote]
You’re right. I am partially at fault here for not researching more about sex hormones and looking mainly into thyroid issues (I have a family history of thyroid problems on both sides of the family, naturally I thought it was the cause). The TT/FT test was only 6 weeks prior but still should’ve been re-done, along with E2 and SHBG
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
which leads me to:
Agreed. I made sure to read the stickies for a refresher before I left, and what she said did NOT jive with what I saw KSMan post about DHT.
Also, I told my doc in my first visit I have sketchy ED issues, you’d think this would raise a flag but maybe she forgot.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would be very curious to see your E2…
I do not think your issues are thyroid related…and I don’t think there is a lab error…
[/quote]
As stated above, the main reason I am slow to rule out thyroid is the issues I’ve had on both sides of my family. I am open to all possibilities at this point.
The doc is young (probably part of the problem) and I THINK she is open-minded… I mean she didn’t immediately prescribe me synthroid after seeing a TSH of 3.6, even though she knows that’s too high. But I’m thinking her knowledge of sex hormones is not as good as her knowledge of adrenals/thyroid.
As far as E2… it has occurred to me I am somewhat emotional and can be pretty passive aggressive in my dealings with people (which I think sounds like high estrogen?) However my bodyfat is pretty much all in my stomach which I wouldn’t expect with high E2.
In the end I think waiting till I clear my Epstein-Barr is the right move, it messes with a lot of shit.
Your thyroid looks fine however you may want to take some iodine to see if this gives you a little boost (nature’s way kelp worked well for me to give me a little more energy but I had some thyroid issues) however your T3 looks great and that is what will usually cause symptoms.
High cortisol will usually interfere with the conversion of t4 into t3 which you don’t seem to have an issue with. Do you have symptoms of high cortisol? Like having very skinny arms/legs with stubborn stomach fat, mood swings, hair loss, not being able to build muscle very well? Of course a 24hr saliva test would be best, but if you have symptoms maybe taking something to reduce your cortisol may help such as phosphatidylserine and taking b complexes two to three times a day (with vitamin c) as well as increasing EFAs. At least on a trial basis to see how it would make you feel.
Problem with testing stuff now while recovering from illness is that everything will be out of wack and cortisol will most likely be high (as it is a stress hormone).
My suggestion is to start taking nature’s way kelp (like 6 a day) to see how this makes you feel. This is only like 3mg of iodine. Then retest later after your illness. Cortisol may be causing issues for you. The infection seems strange as your WBC wasn’t that high…in fact it was on the low end.