Tesla Out of Gas

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This car is not yet ready for prime time.

They made improvements, but it’s still not worth the headache.[/quote]

I don’t think they ever will be. Like I said, electric cars have been around for over 100 years. Electric was one of the first drive trains for automobiles. It fits a niche and that niche will keep the company around, but it’s never going to break big time in the market place. For people who want them, they can and should be around. Exchanging gas for electric is not going to work for the masses. Internal combustion has come a long way. Currently forced induction seems to be the larger answer to efficiency issues. At least that’s the trend.
As for both electric motors and internal combustion, both technologies have little conceptual difference from original design. A truth be told almost all cars are hybrids these days. Not in the dual motor sense, which I think is as inefficient a design motif as can be had, but that internal combustion engines depend heavily on the electronics. Gone are the days where you can run a battery down to nothing. It’s in your best interest to change that shit on a schedule.[/quote]

A hundred years ago we didn’t have the technology to make an electric vehicle go very far. Now we do. The premium Model S’s can go 300 miles. I have to fill my truck with gas every 250.

The technology is only going to get better too. Right now Tesla uses the same batteries that goes in the laptop I’m tapping on right now. Thousands of little batteries. Don’t you think that’s going to be improved upon. I think in ten years electric cars will be going 400 miles and costing an inflation adjusted 25 grand.

The great thing about this argument, unlike so many on this site, is we will eventually find out who is right. I’n five years we should have a pretty good idea who nailed it.[/quote]

Sure technology will improve, but not to the point it will be above a niche. Tesla will be around for those who like them. They won’t be mainstream.

42

Pat, Today will be a victory for you. A 3rd Tesla has gone up in flames with in only a few weeks. It’s going to brutal to the share price today.

43

Hmm. I just took a peek at it and it looked like the earnings report didn’t do them any favors.

I wonder what is going on with them catching fire, if it has to do with the chemistry of the batteries?

44

[quote]on edge wrote:
Pat, Today will be a victory for you. A 3rd Tesla has gone up in flames with in only a few weeks. It’s going to brutal to the share price today.[/quote]

pffff, I was considering buying the other day since the price had dropped. Now I will wait…

45

I wonder how big of a problem this actually is. It is obviously a publicity problem.

46

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]espenl wrote:
In Norway Tesla S is the most popular car right now. A friend of mine has to wait until april until he gets his.

We have gas prices of 10,5$ per gallon.
We have heavy taxation on cars, and even higher taxes on “powerful” cars. Electric cars dont have that here.
Many roads are funded with about 2-3$ per time you pass some points. When driving electric cars you dont have to pay.
Most parking spots are pay to stay, except with an el car here.
Electric cars can drive in the bus lanes (this will probably go away soon as they are filled with teslas).
Many drive a short distance to work here, and get charging stations at work.
Electricity is by and large produced by water dams.

I can see why the tesla would flop where you are living. With all the incentives in Norway for driving electric cars, the Tesla is a good choice because it is faster, bigger, goes longer and is cooler than all the rest of them. Without all these incentives it is a different matter.[/quote]

So your government is forcing you to buy electric cars? Free market at work.[/quote]

Norway and free market does not compute, Im sorry to say.

47

[quote]on edge wrote:
Pat, Today will be a victory for you. A 3rd Tesla has gone up in flames with in only a few weeks. It’s going to brutal to the share price today.[/quote]

The 2013 Pinto apparently. I, personally, hate electric cars. I do think they should exist for the people who want them, but they shouldn’t catch on fire…

48

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
One burned up right by my Dad’s work a few weeks ago after picking up a spark when it hit something metal. He talked to the firefighters who responded and they literally couldn’t put it out probably because of all the magnesium. That is a big problem.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-22/tesla-shares-retreat-on-model-s-fire-inquiry-by-nhtsa.html[/quote]

The Model S has half inch thick armor plating on it’s underside. It took a metal rod in a circumstance of freak leverage to puncture it and cause the battery to catch fire. No ICE car would have withstood the same thing better than a Tesla.

The fire burned for so long because the fire fighters cracked open the casing exposing the battery to oxygen. That’s not the proper way to handle a lithium battery fire. This information is being disseminated to firefighters and they are learning the proper way to handle it (for the very rare times it does happen). The way the battery packs are segmented prevented the fire from spreading to other battery packs, despite the length of the burn. The car alerted the driver to a problem and advised him to pull over and exit the vehicle which he did.

Tesla makes the best and safest car in the world and will sale every single car it can produce for years to come. All “speed bumps” are buying opportunities. I bought 40 more shares at 171. I would have bought more shares yesterday if I had been watching.
[/quote]

Extrication in electric/hybrid cars is more of a problem than the firefighting. There at least haven’t been good standards for how and where high capacity circuits are. Cutting into one of these vehicles to try to get someone out you have to be incredibly careful of power cables.

49

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away

50

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.

51

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, but factually I think it was 27 fatalities, not 27 cars. If 3 people had burned to a crisp right now it would be much worse for Tesla.

52

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, but factually I think it was 27 fatalities, not 27 cars. If 3 people had burned to a crisp right now it would be much worse for Tesla.

[/quote]

We examined the Pinto in an engineering seminar I took. If I remember it right, wasn’t the real problem with the Pinto that Ford knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain?

That was the case that made a name for Ralph Nader. I seriously doubt this would be the case with Tesla.

53

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, but factually I think it was 27 fatalities, not 27 cars. If 3 people had burned to a crisp right now it would be much worse for Tesla.

[/quote]

We examined the Pinto in an engineering seminar I took. If I remember it right, wasn’t the real problem with the Pinto that Ford knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain?

That was the case that made a name for Ralph Nader. I seriously doubt this would be the case with Tesla.

[/quote]

That is what a jury found and hit them for a big pile of punitive damages. IIRC correctly it was cheaper to build the car with the gas tank in a bad location and there was a memo showing it would be cheaper to just pay pay the PI claims than re-design the vehicle and put the gas tank in a better location so they knowingly decided to leave the gas tank in the bad location. But I don’t remember all the details.

54

This is the reason I posted in the previous TSLA thread about the stock rising too quickly and everything being based purely on speculation. The financials did not back the market cap, it rose on speculation and it did so in such a fast manner that the stock did not have a solid base (strong hands/holding).

Be smart and trade to make money, do not become a bag holder. It was a good stock to trade for quick ins/outs but it appears reality has finally set in.

55

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, but factually I think it was 27 fatalities, not 27 cars. If 3 people had burned to a crisp right now it would be much worse for Tesla.
[/quote]

We examined the Pinto in an engineering seminar I took. If I remember it right, wasn’t the real problem with the Pinto that Ford knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain?

That was the case that made a name for Ralph Nader. I seriously doubt this would be the case with Tesla.
[/quote]

What if we substitute “deceived themselves about the safety of the thin undercarriage in order to make the finances work to achieve their grand vision” in place of “knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain”. Not saying that’s a certainty, but it seems like a realistic possibility.

56

[quote]undoredo wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The 2013 Pinto apparently. .[/quote]

Let’s not get carried away[/quote]

Well only 27 Pinto’s actually caught fire. 3 Model S’s in 6 weeks caught fire, but that’s not the total number. I cannot seem to find the total number but I know of at least one more that caught fire earlier in the year. So that’s 4. It doesn’t take many of these to totally murder a brand. If a 4rth one catches fire in the next couple of weeks it could spell disaster for the company. It’s the publicity that will kill them.
There was clearly a design flaw in the Pinto, but in reality there were not that many cars that caught fire, but the publicity killed the car. Not that killing that car was a disservice, but perception drove the hysteria more than reality.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, but factually I think it was 27 fatalities, not 27 cars. If 3 people had burned to a crisp right now it would be much worse for Tesla.
[/quote]

We examined the Pinto in an engineering seminar I took. If I remember it right, wasn’t the real problem with the Pinto that Ford knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain?

That was the case that made a name for Ralph Nader. I seriously doubt this would be the case with Tesla.
[/quote]

What if we substitute “deceived themselves about the safety of the thin undercarriage in order to make the finances work to achieve their grand vision” in place of “knowingly compromised the design of the car for financial gain”. Not saying that’s a certainty, but it seems like a realistic possibility.
[/quote]

The Tesla team has clearly made every attempt to hit the ball out of the park in every measurable attribute. Unfortunately it is possible there is a design flaw that wasn’t exposed by the controlled, standardized safety tests. Various sorts of debri on the road might be such a hazard they couldn’t fully account for. I don’t think there is any plausible law suit though no one has died or anything like that. Even the drunk who drove his Tesla through a wall and into a tree walked away from the accident.

If the TWO recent road debris instances are not just a fluke but a design flaw revealed, that would be very bad. If it is a fluke but some over zealous regulating agency decides to force a recall or suspend sales or something like that, that would be very bad too.

If the whole thing blows over or Tesla is able to quickly implement a solution the stock will return to glory. In the mean time, the stock is caught in a down draft and I personally think it will continue dropping into the low 120’s. I’m seriously worried if it drops below 100, or if we have another punctured undercarriage which, of course, would take the stock well below 100.

57

The stock is not going to just return to glory without potential issues being fixed as institutions are not just going to pour money back into it if things are not fixed. It wouldn’t simply blow over…

TSLA has had too much of a cult following for its own good, if stocks trade good they go up small steps at a time otherwise they end up falling like a set of dominos due to a weak foundation

58

[quote]on edge wrote:

If the whole thing blows over or Tesla is able to quickly implement a solution the stock will return to glory. In the mean time, the stock is caught in a down draft and I personally think it will continue dropping into the low 120’s. I’m seriously worried if it drops below 100, or if we have another punctured undercarriage which, of course, would take the stock well below 100.[/quote]

Tesla kissed 120 today. Like I said above, I’m worried if it drops below 100. I think in the range of 100-120 is a great buying opportunity for those who missed the initial run. Baring issues, and by “issues” I mean real issues not manufactured hype or overreaction, the stock will return to glory days. Glory days that are a bit more tempered due to technical overhead. Technical Overhead, by the way, is when lots of people bought in at higher prices. This keeps stocks from shooting up too fast because these people are looking to get out even.

59

The latest woe with the Tesla is the projected shortage of batteries for them. Which is a shame since it is arguably the best looking car on the road. I saw a couple of them in the past month.

Rob

60

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

If the whole thing blows over or Tesla is able to quickly implement a solution the stock will return to glory. In the mean time, the stock is caught in a down draft and I personally think it will continue dropping into the low 120’s. I’m seriously worried if it drops below 100, or if we have another punctured undercarriage which, of course, would take the stock well below 100.[/quote]

Tesla kissed 120 today. Like I said above, I’m worried if it drops below 100. I think in the range of 100-120 is a great buying opportunity for those who missed the initial run. Baring issues, and by “issues” I mean real issues not manufactured hype or overreaction, the stock will return to glory days. Glory days that are a bit more tempered due to technical overhead. Technical Overhead, by the way, is when lots of people bought in at higher prices. This keeps stocks from shooting up too fast because these people are looking to get out even.[/quote]

Side Note

I couldn’t find the old investment thread. Anyway just wanted to let you know I had bought BP based off some points you made. It’s up 12.25% so, THANKS!

Side Note Over