Terrorists & Liberals in Shock & Awe!

The early transfer of sovereignty to Iraq has caught Terrorists and Liberals/Bush Haters/Al Gore/John Kerry off guard.

Terrorists hoped to upstage the June 30 transfer with spectacular terrorist attacks and Liberals/Bush Haters/Al Gore/John Kerry hoped that they could then shout that, once and for all, that America is a FAILURE and is EVIL - think Michael Moore and Howard Dean AAHHRRRGGGGGG!!.

The good people of Iraq deserve peace and prosperity. They have been brutalized by Saddam for decades and they are now being brutalized by Islamic terrorists. Fortunately for Iraq, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is determined to destroy the Al Qaeda terrorists - not very good news for Liberals/Bush Haters/Al Gore/John Kerry.

I hope and pray for peace, security, and prosperity for the good people of Iraq.

Let the Liberal flames begin! I am absolutely confident that any Liberal posting on this board will put forth their obligatory negative, pessimistic, and hateful posts - think Jimmy Carter, Michael Moore, and Howard Dean.

Have a blessed day everyone! CJR

“Fortunately for Iraq, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is determined to destroy the Al Qaeda terrorists - not very good news for Liberals/Bush Haters/Al Gore/John Kerry.”

The vast majority of attacks are coming from holdouts of the Saddam regime, not foriegn fighters (let alone Al Qaeda!)

Also, it’s sick and hateful to equate Democrats and Liberals with Al Qaeda.

No kidding, stop trying to equate those with liberal viewpoints with everything you find despicable.

I, for one, have argued liberal viewpoints long and hard. I’m happy to say I was very pleasantly surprised by the turn of events. Somebody made a wise move.

I’m also happy to admit that one of the right wing concepts espoused on here is also ringing true. With the power finally released into the hands of the Iraqi government the terrorists are now more visibly hurting Iraqi interests.

Hopefully somebody is busy pointing this out the the Iraqi people so that they will start to shift their anger and discontent towards foreign terrorists invading their country for a shot at the US troops.

That being said, it doesn’t mean I have changed my mind about world issues or anything. It just means that not everything is a total screw up and sometimes we can make the best of a bad situation once we are in it.

So, for you liberal bashers out there, grow up and respect people with different viewpoints. Don’t fall to the level of your two party politicians who are busy tearing the country apart with this divisionist crap.

Great post CJR -

And you were absolutely right, the liberals here are not even addressing your subject matter, they are whining and crying about how hateful you are to lump them in with the bad guys.

Great job lumpy, vroom.

Since I live over on the other side of the Atlantic in the United Kingdom, I don’t think I’m qualified to join in the debate on Liberals vs. Conservatives in US politics. However, given that we’re mixed up in this mess in Iraq too, I thought I’d add a few thoughts.

Number one: Do not make the mistake of thinking you can defeat ‘terrorists’ (careful - Mr. Bush’s word for anyone he doesn’t like) by military force alone. The Israelis have been trying this for years and have just got more and more violence in return. You need to win ‘hearts and minds’ as well. During the Cold War, the US was intelligent enough to heavily fund anti-communist intellectuals/newspapers etc. in the free world. The same needs to be done in the Middle East if you want to defeat the Islamists. You only defeat extremists by marginalising them. I think Donald Rumsfeld once called it ‘draining the swamp’. Shame he never walked the walk as well as talking the talk.

Number Two: Once you’ve marginalised the extremists, you’ve got to engage with the more moderate elements. The US needs to involve Iraq’s ‘traditional’ leaders - think tribal leaders. These guys have real influence. Also, involving them helps ‘drain the swamp’ as per the above.

Number Three: Do not expect ‘Iraqi democracy’ to be like US democracy. People in those type of societies tend to vote along ethnic/religious lines. Recognise this and be prepared to deal with it. Democracy could quite easily turn into Iranian-style Theocracy.

Number Four: Expect US and other troops to be in Iraq for many years to come. The British army went into Northern Ireland to restore order following the IRA’s ‘terrorist’ campaign in 1972 and is still there.

Number Five: The US should not try to ‘go it alone’. It is true that America is the most powerful state in the world today in military and economic terms, but it needs its allies too. Sadly (because I’m a great fan of the US), I think Bush’s policies have lowered America’s image in the eyes of the rest of the world. I lived in France when the coalition invaded Iraq and I have to say the ordinary French people (who are much more pro-US than their political leaders) just couldn’t understand why America was waging war on Iraq. And I mean, literally, they could not comprehend it. Thus, they just assumed Bush to be (quote, unquote) ‘crazy’.

I hope I just answered CJR on the substance of his point. JR.

Lumpy,
Can you cite some exact figures of how many attacks are from Saddam holdouts vs. foreign terrorists? Also please cite your reference as to how you know this information. Obviously you are not over there counting what attacks came from who.

Also if an attack occurs like for instance a roadside IED and there is noody caught how do you tell who done it?

I also think that the kidnappings / beheadings in Iraq have all been carried out by Al-queda right?

I love how people just make shit up to win an argument. It’s too easy to argue like that lumpster, it takes no effort to just make the info up as you go to support your side.

Vroom,
Thank you for at least admitting that this administration can do some good things as well. Many of the people who argue against them would argue that anything they do is a blunder and wrong and evil. I do not love the current Group in power, I don’t think they are all that bad but nonetheless, They are our friggin team captains right now. We can pout and cry because their dads are the coaches and put them in those spots. We can sit the games out untill they are gone and Lose all the games (in case anyone is wondering I think the trouble we are having in iraq is because of all the whining crybabies who are sitting this out or arguing with the coach on the sideline at the game). Or we can suck up our selfish pride, go out on the field and outwork the bastard captains so that the whole world can see just how good you are in comparison to how good the coaches son is. And at least you can go home after the game and know you gave it your all and win or lose you can be assured that you will be happy with yourself.

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins

Im a liberal to a degree. I don’t support or understand Bush’s action in Iraq. But I’m happy that power has been handed back to the Iraqi people. I think its a great thing for them even though I don’t think they will have a democracy that we in America will understand. I don’t think anyone can say anything bad about this handover.

CJR,
Most liberals out there, like most republicans, are reasonable, rational people. To equate liberals with terrorists is simply incorrect. It doesn’t make someone a terrorist to disagree with a policy, or even several policies. Liberals like me, even if we disagreed with the war, hope and pray that the Iraqis now get a better life.

Mike Moore has his equivalents on the right too, aka Bill O’Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. They all, including Moore, aren’t necessarily rational debaters.

More importantly, liberals (at least this is my perspective) don’t hate America or think the country is evil.Would you equate a “CLinton hater” on an equal level with a Bush hater or not???

Taking issue with a President is part of democracy. What kind of outrage would there have been if Liberals had attacked Kenn Starr and called him an America hater.

I could give a shit about the left’s feelings. If you throw in with a known band of thugs and murderers to oppose the president, then take what you’ve got coming and shut the hell up.

It’s not ‘unfair’ or ‘mean’ to equate your opposition to this war with those of the terrorists/Sadaam sympathizers.

It really sucks when your extremist opposition leads you down this road - but this was your choice. There should be no crying when the obvious is stated.

JR-

I agree with your comments and ideas because they are objective and truthful.

My points in my original post are simply:

  1. Terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, and the appeasers of terrorists were upstaged by the surprise handover which was the original idea of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.

  2. The good people of Iraq deserve peace, security, and prosperity.

  3. I hope and pray for peace, security, and prosperity for the good people of Iraq.

I am a realist.

The world we live in is a very cold and very brutal place: too many good people die while too many evil people live and prosper.

Despite all of this, I believe that
WHATEVER can go RIGHT will go RIGHT, at the BEST possible TIME, and in the BEST possible WAY.

CJR

fabs_adami -

“To equate liberals with terrorists is simply incorrect.”
=> If I had believed that, then I would have stated: Terrorists = ALL Liberals.

	I agree that most liberals and most conservatives are reasonable, rational people.  Of course there are extremists on both sides, e.g. Michael Moore vs Rush Limbaugh

	I do not believe that all Liberals are terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, and the appeasers of terrorists. 

=>	Please note that lumpy & vroom intended to create a distraction by asserting that I believed that 'Democrats and Liberals = Al Qaeda', instead of commenting on the handover of sovereignty.  This is a typical tactic to divert attention and create confusion.

“Liberals like me, even if we disagreed with the war, hope and pray that the Iraqis now get a better life.”
=> AMEN to that!

“Would you equate a Clinton hater on an equal level with a Bush hater?”
=> YES! Both attempt to rationale their irrational hate by purposely twisting reality.

“Taking issue with a President is part of democracy.”
=> I agree. All Presidents, Senators, Representatives, and state and local governments should by held accountable to their conduct and policies.

“What kind of outrage would there have been if Liberals had attacked Kenn Starr and called him an America hater.”
=> If memory serves me right, there were no burning cars or looting, just simple TV/Radio/Newspaper commentary and editorials that criticized Kenn Star haters.

CJR

Rainjack, you should try connecting with reality from time to time. Criticism of policy is a far cry from throwing in with terrorists. Ludicrous.

I can’t believe how biased you are. I am sitting here saying that good things are being done over there… and you are shitting on my head. How stupid is that?

Rainjack-
I have to say how disappointing it is at times to read your posts. You have struck me at times to be an above average guy when it comes to intelligence and awareness! Then you come across with some of your statements so narrow frigging minded! I ask you to try and hone the ability to see a situation or circumstance through another’s view? I am not asking you to change your stance, but realize you can be wrong. Remember everyone thought the world was flat and would have killed anyone who said different until Columbus grabbed his sack and sailed to the new world!

Anyone really care about the Iraqi people? Where was this care between 1991 to 2003? Where was it when Bush senior urged an uprising but gave them no support so they got mow down by saddam?

This whole new spin of “freedom” for the Iraqi people is only to divert attention from the lack of evidence of WMD and links to 9-11.

I supported the war in Afghan but not in Iraq. I would have supported a war against Saudi Arabia. I would have support a killing spree of the whole bin laden family too just for revenge.

The problem with liberals is they hate the freedom Bush has granted the Iraq people almost as much as Al Qaeda does. Have you forgotten the sacrifices your fathers and fore fathers have made? Selfish pinko commie bastards…

RB

Vegita said
“I love how people just make shit up to win an argument. It’s too easy to argue like that lumpster, it takes no effort to just make the info up as you go to support your side.”

Well if I remember correctly it was General Zinni who said this (that the majority of attacks in Iraq are holdouts from Saddam’s army, not foriegn fighters), during his recent interview on C-SPAN (along with Tom Clancey, discussing their new book).

I may be remembering the source wrong though.

It’s funny that if you don’t agree with a statement, or aren’t aware of a fact, then the other person must be making it up.

I don’t know why this statement would be so hard to believe, as we have enemies amongst the Ba’athists, Shi’ites and Sunni factions.


I guess this handover means Mission Accomplished Part 2?

In a related story, George Bush today asked Iraqi insurgents to “Please stop Bringing It On”.

You’re right vroom, that was stupid of me to say.

I apologize for not reading what you wrote before I went postal.

Look Elk -

This has nothing to do with being narrow minded, myopic, homophobic, politcally incorrect (ok, maybe a little anti p.c.). This is, pardon my french, a grudge fuck.

I’m old enough to remember a Dem controlled house and senate - they made their own rules, then broke 'em. They’d shit down everyones throats and tell us it was ice cream and we usually had to have two scoops.

I want the left crushed. They want all their power back. It’s a war, more so now than ever before.

I will concede that I can seem a tad obnoxious on occasion. But when I get that burning desire to see the party of gin-nosed-ted begging for scraps out behind Gino’s Butcher Shop…I become a little frothy at the mouth.