[quote]FridgeRaider wrote:
I’m loath to open old cans of worms, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. How do you guys feel about the comments by Falwell and Robertson after September 11?
Should their security details worry that RainJack will come gunning for these blame-shifting apologists, or are they in the clear?[/quote]
Ugh.
Dude, I accidentally clicked the link you posted.
Those guys are Jesus-retarded. Please do not post anything else by them. Please.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Once somebody has been recruited by the islamofascists and is willing to commit acts of terror, there probably is no recourse except to fight them and kill them.
killing islamofascists will be ineffective in stopping recruitment.
[/quote]
what?
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
vroom wrote:
Once somebody has been recruited by the islamofascists and is willing to commit acts of terror, there probably is no recourse except to fight them and kill them.
killing islamofascists will be ineffective in stopping recruitment.
what?[/quote]
Wugs, it’s vroom. What did you expect? 
http://www.militaryweek.com/kk041304.shtml
From April of 04 so it’s old, but in regard to the war on terror and “Iraq” relevent to the root cause and an honest assessment of why we are there and what may be done to save future US casualties.
Mind you this was one year ago when there were only 700 US deaths and another April has come and gone. Let’s hope that if there is an April 06 our friendly war hawks who don’t hesitate to scream their support and desire for the war will also offer their service in Iraq (jerffy).
As far as the author how can we discredit her? Huh, jerffy! It must be because she is a women, or hates Bush, or has an ax to grind? Which one is it?
BigDave, just disregard jerffy’s posts sane people over the age of 17 do.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
… Let’s hope that if there is an April 06 our friendly war hawks who don’t hesitate to scream their support and desire for the war will also offer their service in Iraq (jerffy).
[/quote]
LOL
Elk, every time you post something along the lines of “if you agree with the war, go fight it”, you sound dangerously similar to my caricature of you in the old “imitate T-members here” thread from last year.
Same old Elk. I love it, man!
e-hater,
I was hoping you’d finally gotten up from the safety of your computer and made your speech!!!
Too bad. I guess your convictions are not worth risking a face to face discussion.
You wrote:
"http://www.militaryweek.com/kk041304.shtml
From April of 04 so it’s old, but in regard to the war on terror and “Iraq” relevent to the root cause and an honest assessment of why we are there and what may be done to save future US casualties.
Mind you this was one year ago when there were only 700 US deaths and another April has come and gone. Let’s hope that if there is an April 06 our friendly war hawks who don’t hesitate to scream their support and desire for the war will also offer their service in Iraq (jerffy)."
You leave out Afghanistan. Why?
Please define what you consider service.
Never mind. Don’t. I know what you think.
I was feeling underappreciated when I first read this post.
Then I realized that you are the guy who doesn’t have the sack to make the speech!!!
It would be so easy!!! Identify where in your immediate area there are police who specialize in counter-terrorism. Make sure you plan your speech during a shift change to get maxiumum exposure. I know they have a counterterrorism task force in Denver. I hope that is close enough.
Stand up and say, “Hi. I’m e-hater. I was a target plotter in Gulf War One. I believe it gives me the right to degrade and dismiss anyone who is non-military. Further, I hate George W. Bush. I sincerely believe that those of you who voted for George Bush and support the Iraq war are not man enough. I think you make no contribution to the war effort. I don’t think you are brave at all. In fact, I’ve had a few friends “roughed up” by you and don’t think you serve any real purpose for society in general. I’m proud to say that I haven’t ever called 911, and don’t ever plan to.”
“As far as the author how can we discredit her? Huh, jerffy! It must be because she is a women, or hates Bush, or has an ax to grind? Which one is it?”
Here is an entire paragraph from the article you posted:
“In discussing Iraq, Senator Ted Kennedy recalls Vietnam. He takes grief not for his facts, but because, as a natty neoconservative talking point goes, “Why, his own brother got us into Vietnam!” Robert Dreyfuss reminds us that in 1968, following the Tet Offensive, the party in the White House became traumatized by that war’s reality, and fell into disarray. Perhaps this is the one dangerous parallel that agonizes 21st century Republicans. And Senator Robert Byrd equates Tennyson’s Charge of the Light Brigade to the modern military blunders of the current administration in a moving address before a nearly empty Senate Chamber.”
Leave 'em dead ted and sheets byrd as the “authorities” on military matters or morals or anything beyond gin.
Need I say more?
“BigDave, just disregard jerffy’s posts sane people over the age of 17 do.”
dave, you don’t need me anymore. You have e-hater.
JeffR
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
… Let’s hope that if there is an April 06 our friendly war hawks who don’t hesitate to scream their support and desire for the war will also offer their service in Iraq (jerffy).
LOL
Elk, every time you post something along the lines of “if you agree with the war, go fight it”, you sound dangerously similar to my caricature of you in the old “imitate T-members here” thread from last year.
Same old Elk. I love it, man! :)[/quote]
Loth, in my view you come across as a kind of caricature yourself. Not as ridiculous as jerffy, but a caricature none the less. Same old Loth, unfortunately my feelings are not as warm as yours. 
[quote]vroom wrote:
…
However, the military course of action, no matter how wonderful you think it is, does nothing to stop the recruitment of thousands more young men willing to die. Just as terror is ineffective in quelling our anger, killing islamofascists will be ineffective in stopping recruitment. Anger and hatred beget anger and hatred – it has been so since the beginning of time.
…[/quote]
vroom, what you and most of the other anti-war types keep missing is the fact that it is our military that allows us to build roads, schools, water treatment plants, etc.
These are the measures that will eliminate the future recruitment of terrorists.
Your argument is logical, that is why we are doing the best we can to improve education and living conditions for Muslims around the world.
We even pressured Saudi Arabia to have some low level elections.
This is going to be a long process. We will win if we stay the course.
The military component is vital, but it is not the only tool we are using.
Loth,
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people don’t read stuff at all, given the canned nature of some responses.
At any rate, this article epitomizes the mindset of the Islamists – and in my mind that group is much too large to be casually dismissed – and also shows why appeasement policies (as in giving in to stated demands) aren’t likely to work (and I believe the “non-violent” disclaimer at the end about as far as I could throw a big box full of their propaganda leaflets):
Muslim first, Australian second, so leave us alone
By Lee Glendinning and Tom Allard
July 25, 2005
Westerners must leave Muslim lands if they want to safeguard themselves against terrorist attacks, says the Sydney leader of the global Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir, Wassim Doureihi.
Although Mr Doureihi says his group espouses non-violence, he warns Australia to “stop interfering in Islamic land, stop enforcing rules over Muslims and allow the Muslims to assume their own political destiny ? If we are really serious about protecting the lives of the people in Australia, if you want to remove the possibility of these actions occurring within these countries, then remove the original injustice.”
Hizb ut-Tahrir came under scrutiny yesterday after a report it was launching a recruitment drive in Sydney and was linked to one of the London bombers. But Mr Doureihi, 28, an accountant, vehemently denied a London link.
“The Islamic position is very clear - that is, Islam condemns the killing of innocent non-combatants whether it’s in London or Iraq,” he said at the rented room at Greenacre where his group meets on Friday nights.
However, leaflets handed out to members refer to the “war on Islam being reignited”, leading to accusations of inflammatory language. “It’s very ironic,” Mr Doureihi said, “that certain groups can be targeted with words they use, when at the same time bombs are being dropped on entire villages and yet the world hasn’t arisen to condemn that.”
He does not believe Muslims can co-exist with Western society. Asked, then, why he chose to stay in Australia, he said: “I was born in this country. I don’t choose where I was born ? I consider myself as a Muslim first and foremost.”
Hizb ut-Tahrir supports a transnational regime under Sharia law. It is banned in a number of Middle Eastern countries, but it is not a proscribed terrorist organisation in Australia, the US or Britain.
The president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr Ameer Ali, said: “Whenever we come across any groups like this, who are openly, blatantly advocating violence, we bring them to the notice of the law-enforcing authorities.”
However, Keysar Trad, a founder of the Australian Islamic Friendship Association, said the group was “non-integrationist but not violent”.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Loth,
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people don’t read stuff at all, given the canned nature of some responses.
At any rate, this article epitomizes the mindset of the Islamists – and in my mind that group is much too large to be casually dismissed – and also shows why appeasement policies (as in giving in to stated demands) aren’t likely to work (and I believe the “non-violent” disclaimer at the end about as far as I could throw a big box full of their propaganda leaflets):
Muslim first, Australian second, so leave us alone
By Lee Glendinning and Tom Allard
July 25, 2005
Westerners must leave Muslim lands if they want to safeguard themselves against terrorist attacks, says the Sydney leader of the global Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir, Wassim Doureihi.
Although Mr Doureihi says his group espouses non-violence, he warns Australia to “stop interfering in Islamic land, stop enforcing rules over Muslims and allow the Muslims to assume their own political destiny ? If we are really serious about protecting the lives of the people in Australia, if you want to remove the possibility of these actions occurring within these countries, then remove the original injustice.”
Hizb ut-Tahrir came under scrutiny yesterday after a report it was launching a recruitment drive in Sydney and was linked to one of the London bombers. But Mr Doureihi, 28, an accountant, vehemently denied a London link.
“The Islamic position is very clear - that is, Islam condemns the killing of innocent non-combatants whether it’s in London or Iraq,” he said at the rented room at Greenacre where his group meets on Friday nights.
However, leaflets handed out to members refer to the “war on Islam being reignited”, leading to accusations of inflammatory language. “It’s very ironic,” Mr Doureihi said, “that certain groups can be targeted with words they use, when at the same time bombs are being dropped on entire villages and yet the world hasn’t arisen to condemn that.”
He does not believe Muslims can co-exist with Western society. Asked, then, why he chose to stay in Australia, he said: “I was born in this country. I don’t choose where I was born ? I consider myself as a Muslim first and foremost.”
Hizb ut-Tahrir supports a transnational regime under Sharia law. It is banned in a number of Middle Eastern countries, but it is not a proscribed terrorist organisation in Australia, the US or Britain.
The president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr Ameer Ali, said: “Whenever we come across any groups like this, who are openly, blatantly advocating violence, we bring them to the notice of the law-enforcing authorities.”
However, Keysar Trad, a founder of the Australian Islamic Friendship Association, said the group was “non-integrationist but not violent”.
[/quote]
So he is a muslim that lives in the west, yet claims the westerners have no place for them in muslim lands.
Gotta love the logic.
Another interesting article, from Canada.
Reading between the lines, it seems that the imam believes that threats are a very good medium of negotiation. Also, the stuff at the end is quite interesting… And of course, there’s the attempt to co-opt the vocab: “terrorizing” the Muslims… Do you Canadians really think your government is doing anything to terrorize Muslim Canadians?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20050725.THREATS25/BNPrint/theglobeandmail/Canada
Imam warns Ottawa to back off Muslims
By COLIN FREEZE
Monday, July 25, 2005
Updated at 4:24 PM EDT
A controversial Toronto imam warned Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan at a closed-door meeting to stop “terrorizing” Canadian Muslims.
“If you try to cross the line I can’t guarantee what is going to happen. Our young people, we can’t control,” Aly Hindy, the head of Scarborough’s Salaheddin Islamic Centre, recalls telling the minister at the May meeting she held in Toronto with dozens of Muslim leaders.
The meeting was part of an effort by Ms. McLellan to reach out to Canadian Muslims amid complaints that the RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service are engaging in racial profiling.
The minister and her officials have been meeting community leaders to explain they are not targeting Muslims generally, only individuals with possible terrorist links.
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By many accounts, the meetings have been positive and are contributing to a thaw in relations between Muslims and security agents, even if the exchange in May was a little heated.
Mr. Hindy, who has long complained that CSIS is spying on him, his family and his mosque, told Ms. McLellan that a young Muslim woman complained to him she was roughed up by Canadian spies while her husband was away at prayers. This allegation could spur reprisals because “our women are the most valuable thing to us” and “for a Muslim, honour is more important than his life,” Mr. Hindy said in a recent interview.
He made the point to the minister. Several people who attended shrugged off the imam’s remarks, but some Muslims and government agents later approached Mr. Hindy asking him to explain himself.
“The police came to me and said, ‘This is a kind of threat,’ and I said yes,” he said. "But it’s for the good of this country.
"And they said, ‘Do you know some of the names of those people you expect to cause some problems?’ And I said, ‘You just open the telephone directory.’ "
While government investigators probing the woman’s complaint told Mr. Hindy they have not found evidence of wrongdoing, he isn’t giving the spy service the benefit of the doubt.
“We believe CSIS should stop terrorizing us,” he says in a flyer he is circulating to mosques. “CSIS is powerless. CSIS has no authority over you. If CSIS agents come to your door, do not open [it] for them.”
Toronto’s Coalition of Muslim Organizations arranged the meeting, and said about 100 Muslim leaders attended. While COMO president Adam Esse noted that, “some people, when they talk, they get a little heated,” he said the ministerial visit was “a sign of respect” and was worthwhile overall. “If you talk, you remove a lot of misconceptions, a lot of misunderstandings.”
A spokesman for Ms. McLellan agreed. “We feel it was constructive, positive,” Alex Swann said.
Even Mr. Hindy said that despite his differences with security agencies “the Deputy Prime Minister, she was very understanding.”
In the wake of the London bombings, Ms. McLellan has said that Canadians must become “psychologically prepared” for such an attack.
She has also suggested such strikes are not related to the U.S.-led war in Iraq, in which Britain is a strong partner. Mr. Hindy believes the war in Iraq has caused young Muslims to want to fight against the United States and Britain. “I always say the No. 1 recruiter of al-Qaeda is George W. Bush,” he said.
The imam said six or seven young men have approached him to discuss “fighting overseas” in place such as Iraq and Afghanistan.
He said he told them “people fighting in Iraq, they don’t need more people.”
Instead, Canadian Muslims can wage non-violent jihads (holy struggles) at home. “You have a very good chance to serve Islam here,” he said he told them.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Loth, in my view you come across as a kind of caricature yourself. Not as ridiculous as jerffy, but a caricature none the less. Same old Loth, unfortunately my feelings are not as warm as yours.
[/quote]
Sorry you feel this way, Elk. And a frowny face, even? I feel like Julius Caesar on the Ides of March right now.
“Et tu, Elkhntr? Et tu? Then fall lothario!”
Sucks to be me.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
Loth, in my view you come across as a kind of caricature yourself. Not as ridiculous as jerffy, but a caricature none the less. Same old Loth, unfortunately my feelings are not as warm as yours.
Sorry you feel this way, Elk. And a frowny face, even? I feel like Julius Caesar on the Ides of March right now.
“Et tu, Elkhntr? Et tu? Then fall lothario!”
Sucks to be me. :)[/quote]
You’re not sorry, not one bit. You get the opportunity to be a bristling war hawk and look cute with your little quip. Anyway, I’m tired and going to bed, so I will have to read your next little quip on the morrow. (is that better?)
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
You’re not sorry, not one bit. You get the opportunity to be a bristling war hawk and look cute with your little quip. Anyway, I’m tired and going to bed, so I will have to read your next little quip on the morrow. (is that better?)[/quote]
There we go! See? You don’t have to be grumpy ALL the time, Elk!