Term Limits for USSC?

Interesting Op-ed in today’s WSJ – I have to say that I think term limits would be a good thing for two reasons: 1) They would make appointments less contentious; and 2) They would serve as a limit on the federal courts’ modern tendency toward oligarchy.

I would say that justices should be able to serve 10 years (maybe 15 at the most), and not be eligible for re-appointment on the same court or to lower courts. We have more people now who are qualified to be judges than ever before – there’s no shortage of well trained constitutional scholars and practicing lawyers out there.

Anyway, what do you all think?

Supreme Gerontocracy

By STEVEN G. CALABRESI and JAMES LINDGREN
April 8, 2005

It has been almost 11 years since the last vacancy opened up on the Supreme Court. The current group of justices has served together for longer than any other group of nine justices in American history. What is more, the average tenure of justices has gotten a lot longer in the last 35 years. From 1789 until 1970, justices served an average of 14.9 years. Those who have stepped down since 1970, however, have served an average of 25.6 years. This means justices are now staying more than 10 years longer on average on the Supreme Court than they have done over the whole of American history.

The reason for this is not hard to find. Recently, the average age at time of appointment has been 53, which is the same as the average age of appointment over the rest of American history. The retirement age, however, has jumped from an average of 68 pre-1970 to 79 for justices retiring post-1970. Two of the current justices are in their 80s, two in their 70s, and four more between 65 and 69. Only one, Clarence Thomas, is younger than 65. The current Court is a gerontocracy – like the leadership cadre of the Chinese Communist Party.

Indeed, David Garrow’s scholarship has shown that decrepitude has been a problem with the last 10 justices to retire, those who left the bench from 1971-94. By some accounts, half of the last 10 retirees have been too feeble or mentally incompetent to participate fully in deliberating and deciding cases – or even in some instances, to stay awake during the few mornings of oral arguments. While mental incompetence was rare in the first century on the Court, since 1898 it has become a regular occurrence for justices who serve more than 18 years; by one estimate about a third were mentally incompetent to serve before they finally retired.

With justices now staying 10 years longer than they have historically, vacancies are opening up a lot less often. Between 1789 and 1970 there was a vacancy on the Court once every 1.91 years. In the 34 years since the two appointments in 1971, there has been a vacancy on average only once every 3.75 years. The typical one-term president now gets to appoint only one instead of two justices, and with the recent 11-year drought of vacancies a two-term presidency could in theory go by without being able to make even a single Supreme Court appointment.

We think this is unacceptable. No powerful government institution in a modern democracy should go for 11 years without any democratic check on its membership. Nor should powerful officials hold office for an average of 25.6 years with some of them serving for 35 years or more. The rules allowing Supreme Court justices to do this are a relic of the 18th century and of pre-democratic times.

No other major country in the world allows the justices of its highest constitutional court to serve for life without a mandatory retirement age. England has a mandatory retirement age, and France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Austria all appoint their equivalents of our justices for a fixed term of years. In addition, none of the 50 states appoints its supreme court justices for life.

For these reasons, over the past few years we have been advocating a constitutional amendment that would limit the justices to an 18-year term with one seat opening up every two years. Tomorrow, a conference of scholars (most of whom are committed to this idea) will meet at Duke Law School to discuss various proposals for such an amendment. Our amendment would not apply to the currently sitting justices or to the current president and would go into effect when a new president takes office in 2009. In this respect, it would resemble the two-term limit on presidents that went into effect prospectively and which also restored a time-honored tradition of limited government service.

Some have suggested that Congress might have power to limit Supreme Court terms by passage of an ordinary statute. We disagree. The Constitution specifically contemplates a separate office of Supreme Court justices, and it logically implies that that particular office must be held for life. For 216 years, Americans have so understood the constitutional text. We think that practice has thus settled the idea that Supreme Court justices currently serve for life. To change that practice, a constitutional amendment is required.

The current system of life tenure leads to many abuses. Justices time their departures strategically to give presidents they like an appointment. Presidents appoint young candidates to the Court in place of 60-year-olds to maximize their impact on the Court. We believe that Senate confirmations are more bitter because all involved know that they are picking someone who may end up serving 35 years instead of 18, making the stakes much higher.

For 180 years through 1970, we had Supreme Court tenures of about 15 years, a practice that worked well. Now that this system has broken down, it is time to restore some sanity to the process of selecting our justices. A first step would be to institute reasonable term limits for the members of the Supreme Court.

Mr. Calabresi is the George C. Dix Professor of Constitutional Law, and Mr. Lindgren the Benjamin Mazur Research Professor, at Northwestern University.

No one should have a guaranteed job for life especially in a position of high power.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The Supreme Court has proved that over and over again.

So have a lot of judges.

Few things irritate me more than people fucking with the Constitution.

I think giving Supreme Court Justices lifetime appointments is perfect. It acts as a long term control on our government. It prevents mood swings that might be brought about by some politician with a cult of personality.

Do you really want the Justices making decisions while knowing that they may have to go to work in a few years for one of the companies who are before them in court?

[quote]doogie wrote:
I think giving Supreme Court Justices lifetime appointments is perfect. It acts as a long term control on our government. It prevents mood swings that might be brought about by some politician with a cult of personality.
[/quote]

I have a huge problem with the judges that get a ‘god’ complex and legislate from the bench.

I don’t know if it’s the right term or not, but judicial revue is not a power granted by the constitution. It was conveyed upon the court - by the court - in Marbury v. Madison. And the radical left-wing judges we have now are abusing a power that really isn’t theirs in the first place.

I say throw the bums out. Make them wash dishes for a living after their terms are up. Their freakin lawyers for pete’s sake - and we trust them with our lives. That should scare the shit out of everyone.

Just finished the book “Men in Black”

Highly recommended if you are
iterested in this debate.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Just finished the book “Men in Black”

Highly recommended if you are
iterested in this debate.[/quote]

Is that Levin’s new book? That guy is my hero.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
doogie wrote:
I think giving Supreme Court Justices lifetime appointments is perfect. It acts as a long term control on our government. It prevents mood swings that might be brought about by some politician with a cult of personality.

I have a huge problem with the judges that get a ‘god’ complex and legislate from the bench.

I don’t know if it’s the right term or not, but judicial revue is not a power granted by the constitution. It was conveyed upon the court - by the court - in Marbury v. Madison. And the radical left-wing judges we have now are abusing a power that really isn’t theirs in the first place.

I say throw the bums out. Make them wash dishes for a living after their terms are up. Their freakin lawyers for pete’s sake - and we trust them with our lives. That should scare the shit out of everyone.

[/quote]

best part is that you don’t have to be a lawyer to be on the supreme court as far as I know. I’d love to see a constitutional scholar get nominated.

Yep.

Great read. Some amazing tales from the court over the years.

Roe vs. Wade was heard as a 'privacy case" way back when. Who knew?

[quote]hedo wrote:
Yep.

Great read. Some amazing tales from the court over the years.

Roe vs. Wade was heard as a 'privacy case" way back when. Who knew?[/quote]

yeah. Right to privacy, which isn’t in the damn document.

I like the life terms, but I do think they should be given competency tests. Possibly in front of the Senate or such, and have a vote of confidence placed on all each year. Then again… Who knows. I wish these people had enough dignity to just step down when their time comes.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
hedo wrote:
Yep.

Great read. Some amazing tales from the court over the years.

Roe vs. Wade was heard as a 'privacy case" way back when. Who knew?

yeah. Right to privacy, which isn’t in the damn document.
[/quote]

This book was grade a claptrap. Read it at my mother-in-law’s house. Levin is either a total idiot, or has never read the constitution or both. Full of illogical conclusions and hilarious contradictions example: Korematsu v. United States and Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.

In the one case judges are being “activist”, but in the next are upholding the constitution, using the exact same reasoning! What an idiot! And does he just assume that we’re going to take his word for it on these cases?

Again going to Korematsu v. United States he says the decision was devoid of a constitutional basis. Well damn! But hey, Korematsu v. United States draws on the precedent of Hirabayashi v. United States as it turns out. And Hirabayashi v. United States cited a constitutional basis. Does Levin not know this,(idiot) or does he(liar)? Perhaps he doesn’t have google? And then to shamelessly reverse logic in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld as mentioned above.

It’s like a fake book, and no scholar of either party would give this book a shred of respect. 200 pages of pure wingnuttery! All the same logical reverses, distortions, and hatred of america that you see in his kind, the coulters, limbaugh’s, and hannity’s of the world. Conservatives shredding the constitution and wailing over a conservative court.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Few things irritate me more than people fucking with the Constitution.

I think giving Supreme Court Justices lifetime appointments is perfect. It acts as a long term control on our government. It prevents mood swings that might be brought about by some politician with a cult of personality.

Do you really want the Justices making decisions while knowing that they may have to go to work in a few years for one of the companies who are before them in court?[/quote]

I don’t mind changing the Constitution if the change is done by the proper procedure, i.e. by an actual amendment rather than by 9 old people in black robes.

As to the actual proposal, I think there’s a lot to recommend it – you’d get justices with long, set terms of 18 years, which would creat a vacancy once every 2 years. This would allow each president to appoint 2 (if it were set up properly – I don’t think the appointments should coincide with election years) justices, and open the court up to shaping by the normal political process.

Also, you wouldn’t have such a problem with old, sick and/or senile judges keeping in the hope that they can allow someone with their political leanings to appoint their successors.

The 18 year terms would be several years longer than the historical average term, but shorter than the most recent terms – and also a whole lot longer than any particular political cycle.

All in all, I think it’s a capital idea.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
hedo wrote:
Yep.

Great read. Some amazing tales from the court over the years.

Roe vs. Wade was heard as a 'privacy case" way back when. Who knew?

yeah. Right to privacy, which isn’t in the damn document.

This book was grade a claptrap. Read it at my mother-in-law’s house. Levin is either a total idiot, or has never read the constitution or both. Full of illogical conclusions and hilarious contradictions example: Korematsu v. United States and Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.

In the one case judges are being “activist”, but in the next are upholding the constitution, using the exact same reasoning! What an idiot! And does he just assume that we’re going to take his word for it on these cases?

Again going to Korematsu v. United States he says the decision was devoid of a constitutional basis. Well damn! But hey, Korematsu v. United States draws on the precedent of Hirabayashi v. United States as it turns out. And Hirabayashi v. United States cited a constitutional basis. Does Levin not know this,(idiot) or does he(liar)? Perhaps he doesn’t have google? And then to shamelessly reverse logic in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld as mentioned above.

It’s like a fake book, and no scholar of either party would give this book a shred of respect. 200 pages of pure wingnuttery! All the same logical reverses, distortions, and hatred of america that you see in his kind, the coulters, limbaugh’s, and hannity’s of the world. Conservatives shredding the constitution and wailing over a conservative court.[/quote]

I haven’t read it – I’ll have to take a look.

However, I would definitely not call Levin an idiot – he’s a pretty smart guy, and a lot of his legal analyses that I’ve seen are very good.

This presumes that our rights are given to us by the Constitution and are limited by the Constitution. Wrong. The Constitution gives powers to the government from the people, not the other way around. People have inherent rights. Although the Constitution does in fact contain specific rights for people, just because a right is not specified does not mean that the right does not exist. It says so in the document itself - see Amendment 9.

I see the judicial pronouncement that there is a right to privacy not so much as “creating” a right but recognize that humans have an inherent right to privacy from government intrusion in our lives, and this right is guaranteed by the Ninth Amendment.

I would rather see personal rights expanded by so called “judicial activism” than have the morns that we elect to the legislatures trample my rights to please some political group that is funding their next election. Representative government is a myth - representatives don’t represent the people, they represent those who contribute the most to their campaign funds. And what about the will of the majority? Got news for you - the majority of people are morons who can barely manage their own lives let alone figure out how best to run a country. I’ll be damned if these morons are going to tell me how to run my life. Thanks to court decisions that tell the government, “Hey, the Constitution doesn’t let you pass that law so we’re going to throw it out,” these morons DON’T run my life.

This means that people are going to have to deal with the fact that some laws that they think should be in place are declared unconstitutional. The powers of government are limited. Deal with it. Get a life. And if you’re so bored that you feel you must stick your big nose into other people’s business, then you’re just part of the mass of morons. I suggest you go down to the liquor store, buy some cheap booze, and drink yourself into oblivion. You’ll do the rest of us a favor.

Here is the full text of the Ninth Amendment:

Rights retained by people.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Oh, and if there’s anyone who thinks that there really is no right to privacy, I’ll come by your house later with my high powered telescope, take pictures of you and your family, and post them on the Internet. Sound okay?

[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
hedo wrote:
Yep.

Great read. Some amazing tales from the court over the years.

Roe vs. Wade was heard as a 'privacy case" way back when. Who knew?

yeah. Right to privacy, which isn’t in the damn document.

This book was grade a claptrap. Read it at my mother-in-law’s house. Levin is either a total idiot, or has never read the constitution or both. Full of illogical conclusions and hilarious contradictions example: Korematsu v. United States and Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.

In the one case judges are being “activist”, but in the next are upholding the constitution, using the exact same reasoning! What an idiot! And does he just assume that we’re going to take his word for it on these cases?

Again going to Korematsu v. United States he says the decision was devoid of a constitutional basis. Well damn! But hey, Korematsu v. United States draws on the precedent of Hirabayashi v. United States as it turns out. And Hirabayashi v. United States cited a constitutional basis. Does Levin not know this,(idiot) or does he(liar)? Perhaps he doesn’t have google? And then to shamelessly reverse logic in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld as mentioned above.

It’s like a fake book, and no scholar of either party would give this book a shred of respect. 200 pages of pure wingnuttery! All the same logical reverses, distortions, and hatred of america that you see in his kind, the coulters, limbaugh’s, and hannity’s of the world. Conservatives shredding the constitution and wailing over a conservative court.[/quote]

100

I am shocked you would have that opinion.

No really…the shocking part would be if you had a critical review rather then a Democratic talking point.

Keep up the good work.

[quote]hedo wrote:

100

I am shocked you would have that opinion.

No really…the shocking part would be if you had a critical review rather then a Democratic talking point.

Keep up the good work.

[/quote]

Hedo, are you serious? There are no “critical” reviews of this book, because it’s a silly book! He has utter contemp for the reader’s intelligence, and you’re willing to let him disrespect your wits hedo? There is no point to this book, and with millions of cases to choose from he fails utterly to prove his claim of “activism”. It is a political hack book disguised as a book on judicial activism. Whole chapters have nothing to do with judicial activism like Mccain-Feingold which was passed by congress and signed by the president. SCOTUS is activist because they didn’t strike it down? But in other cases SCOTUS is activist for limiting what legislature can do? WHAT? Flag burning isn’t speech, but campaign contributions are, even Scalia says flag burning is speech, please explain Mr. Levin? And can somebody please, please inform Mr. Levin of the fourth amendment, because it’s nowhere to be found in Men in Black. That’s the one that gives us our “right to privacy” that Levin considers a hoax! But somehow this book that is full of misinformation, quotes out of context, and just plain silliness, is loved by hedo, the author is Rainjack’s hero(why am I not suprised), and Joe’s been convinced that the constitution skips the 4th amendment. C’mon guys the book stinks in any legal scholar kind of way, seriously.

100

You must have read a different book then the one I did. The one I read basically made a case against the activism of the Supreme Court. It also pointed out case example of appointed judges making laws that should be left to the will of the people, and the majority of voters, rather then judges. It did this over a 200 yr. history. It pointed out that the original intent of the court was to interpet the constitution. It no longer does so.

It was interesting and thought provoking. As a liberal I would assume your reation would be negative. Should the Supreme be reformed it would take away the one branch of government left to you that can make policy without voter approval.

The critical review I spoke of was yours.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
yeah. Right to privacy, which isn’t in the damn document.

This presumes that our rights are given to us by the Constitution and are limited by the Constitution. Wrong. The Constitution gives powers to the government from the people, not the other way around. People have inherent rights. Although the Constitution does in fact contain specific rights for people, just because a right is not specified does not mean that the right does not exist. It says so in the document itself - see Amendment 9.

I see the judicial pronouncement that there is a right to privacy not so much as “creating” a right but recognize that humans have an inherent right to privacy from government intrusion in our lives, and this right is guaranteed by the Ninth Amendment.

I would rather see personal rights expanded by so called “judicial activism” than have the morns that we elect to the legislatures trample my rights to please some political group that is funding their next election. Representative government is a myth - representatives don’t represent the people, they represent those who contribute the most to their campaign funds. And what about the will of the majority? Got news for you - the majority of people are morons who can barely manage their own lives let alone figure out how best to run a country. I’ll be damned if these morons are going to tell me how to run my life. Thanks to court decisions that tell the government, “Hey, the Constitution doesn’t let you pass that law so we’re going to throw it out,” these morons DON’T run my life.

This means that people are going to have to deal with the fact that some laws that they think should be in place are declared unconstitutional. The powers of government are limited. Deal with it. Get a life. And if you’re so bored that you feel you must stick your big nose into other people’s business, then you’re just part of the mass of morons. I suggest you go down to the liquor store, buy some cheap booze, and drink yourself into oblivion. You’ll do the rest of us a favor.[/quote]
Are you talking to me?
Me? An actual liberterian?
Fact remains, abortion was made legal by the judges “finding” the right of privacy in the Constitution. Now, if they’d been able to make the argument you did–which I agree with–there’s no problem. The problem arises when they start finding things that aren’t there. Today, you agree with what they find, but what about tomorrow?