Teacher Suspended for Anti-Gay Marriage Post

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Fair enough. I just wanted you to know how some of your comments come across, especially compared to a fellow Catholic like Pat. I’ve never once heard him say anything like “Heterosexual unions are superior to Homosexual unions”, for example. I know that he has religious convictions against homosexual behavior, but he still manages not to make offensive statements like this.
[/quote]

Yes, people do get upset sometimes when you say the truth. :)[/quote]

You mean like people saying the Catholic church is a fraud?[/quote]

Didn’t know that was a truth.[/quote]

Of course you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be Catholic.

I’ll put it this way so you understand.

If a guy walked up to a man and his wife, knowing they were infertile, and claimed that his marriage was superior to theirs because they couldn’t have children, what do you think the response would be?

The prick would probably be punched in the face, and deservedly so.

The catholic church isn’t a fraud. The Pope, being the successor of Peter, had every right to sell salvation(because, I just know someone will bring it up… they always do). What other purpose do the Apostles have than to bring salvation to the people? And that Martin Luther was absolutely ridiculous. How can you rebel against teachings that were straight from God, and still be pure? I just don’t know. Oh, how wayward we have become.

On topic: I’m not sure why the school systems go to such lengths to protect the idea of homosexuality. Next, they will probably insist on including lessons on how eating inorganic matter is an acceptable lifestyle choice.

[quote]forlife wrote:
Of course you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be Catholic.

I’ll put it this way so you understand.

If a guy walked up to a man and his wife, knowing they were infertile, and claimed that his marriage was superior to theirs because they couldn’t have children, what do you think the response would be?

The prick would probably be punched in the face, and deservedly so.[/quote]

Of course, but for two reasons: 1) He is incorrect and 2) he’s guilty of rash judgement. How does he know that their marriage cannot bring forth children, maybe they just got married or maybe they haven’t had sex while she was ovulating.

However, I am not incorrect (at least not that anyone has shown me or I have found myself) and I’m not giving fraternal correction or making a personal comment on someone’s life.

I am trying to have a impartial and civil discussion. Getting emotional is detrimental to the discussion.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Of course you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be Catholic.

I’ll put it this way so you understand.

If a guy walked up to a man and his wife, knowing they were infertile, and claimed that his marriage was superior to theirs because they couldn’t have children, what do you think the response would be?

The prick would probably be punched in the face, and deservedly so.[/quote]

Of course, but for two reasons: 1) He is incorrect and 2) he’s guilty of rash judgement. How does he know that their marriage cannot bring forth children, maybe they just got married or maybe they haven’t had sex while she was ovulating.

However, I am not incorrect (at least not that anyone has shown me or I have found myself) and I’m not giving fraternal correction or making a personal comment on someone’s life.

I am trying to have a impartial and civil discussion. Getting emotional is detrimental to the discussion.[/quote]

When you claim that straight relationships are superior to gay relationships, you damn well are making a personal comment on my life. You get huffy when someone insults the Catholic church without mentioning you specifically, because you know that in condemning the church they are condemning you.

But sure, let’s play your game.

  1. Prove that having more children is always superior. Ever heard of overpopulation? Ever consider that some couples don’t have the means to be good parents?

  2. The guy would in fact be correct, based on your faulty assumption that being able to have children automatically makes a couple superior.

  3. You are completely ignoring all the other criteria that define success and value as a couple. What if the infertile couple offers far more to society in other ways?

  4. Gay couples adopt children, and adopted children are not inferior to biological children.

[quote]groo wrote:

Don’t be dense. By your statement 1 any marriage that didn’t produce children has less value. Feel free to defend this position with any rationality.[/quote]

I don’t know what Brother Chris’ thoughts are, but, ABSOLUTELY AND INHERENTLY YES. Any marriage that doesn’t produce children is inherently less valuable to me. Choosing to save the mother and father of a child over some random couple isn’t really a choice in my book.

Science, from its precepts and repeatedly, states that apriori proof of simple things such as a cat in a box doesn’t even exist. To demand of religion what science itself states is unattainable is a special brand of silliness.

As well it would be likely be good for you to research the history of sexuality in science. Many great scientists believed firmly that sexuality was a distraction from the truth.

[sarcasm]It must be pure coincidence that Plato, Newton, Mendel, Fourier, Descartes, Pascal, Tesla, Jesus, Mother Theresa, Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, and Buddha all reached the same conclusions.[/sarcasm]

[quote]forlife wrote:
When you claim that straight relationships are superior to gay relationships, you damn well are making a personal comment on my life. You get huffy when someone insults the Catholic church without mentioning you specifically, because you know that in condemning the church they are condemning you.[/quote]

I don’t know if you’d call my reaction huffy, but I do defend my position if that is what you mean. I never said you couldn’t defend your position, I would hope you would.

But you have to admit there is a difference between me laying out an argument for why homosexual unions are not equal and someone repeating false opinions as fact, slander, name calling, &c.

I don’t get upset when someone puts forth an argument for Protestantism, or gay marriage, or abortion, &c. I don’t even get upset when people perpetrate falsehoods.

[quote]But sure, let’s play your game.

  1. Prove that having more children is always superior. Ever heard of overpopulation?[/quote]

Never said having more children is superior, I said the heterosexual unions are superior because they can produce children. That is after all the purpose of marriage, to support the raising of children and give a protection to the happiness of the spouses.

Yes, I have heard of overpopulation, I find it to be an interesting theory. Though it seems to be based on some rather unfounded assumptions.

I’ll find some other sources, I just can’t find them as I’m not at my computer.

I don’t understand, what do you mean by means? Like they are psychopaths or something?

Lol, superior? Are you saying this in the sense that the couple is superior so the other couple that is inferior should be banished or punished? I never said no such thing.

I said homosexual union is not equal to heterosexual union, because homosexual union can never produce children. The exception proves the rule in cases not excepted.

Taking an individual case or the exception and then saying that therefore there is no rule of such thing does not work.

The general rule is that a man and woman is the only combination that can become pregnant. Homosexual unions do not allow that and just because there is individual cases of infertile heterosexual unions doesn’t mean that there is no inequality between the two unions.

Read response above.

[quote]4) Gay couples adopt children, and adopted children are not inferior to biological children.
[/quote]

Yes, and so can heterosexual couples, and it currently shows that children that grow up in a traditional household fare better.

For that matter platonic unions can adopt children, so can mother-daughter unions can adopt children, and convents can adopt children, as well.

However, homosexual couples can’t do something heterosexual couples can…they can’t get pregnant without going outside that union. They themselves cannot produce new lives, persons, humans, children, tax payers, or whatever it is that people call them.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
When you claim that straight relationships are superior to gay relationships, you damn well are making a personal comment on my life. You get huffy when someone insults the Catholic church without mentioning you specifically, because you know that in condemning the church they are condemning you.[/quote]

I don’t know if you’d call my reaction huffy, but I do defend my position if that is what you mean. I never said you couldn’t defend your position, I would hope you would.

But you have to admit there is a difference between me laying out an argument for why homosexual unions are not equal and someone repeating false opinions as fact, slander, name calling, &c.

I don’t get upset when someone puts forth an argument for Protestantism, or gay marriage, or abortion, &c. I don’t even get upset when people perpetrate falsehoods.

[quote]But sure, let’s play your game.

  1. Prove that having more children is always superior. Ever heard of overpopulation?[/quote]

Never said having more children is superior, I said the heterosexual unions are superior because they can produce children. That is after all the purpose of marriage, to support the raising of children and give a protection to the happiness of the spouses.

Yes, I have heard of overpopulation, I find it to be an interesting theory. Though it seems to be based on some rather unfounded assumptions.

I’ll find some other sources, I just can’t find them as I’m not at my computer.

I don’t understand, what do you mean by means? Like they are psychopaths or something?

Lol, superior? Are you saying this in the sense that the couple is superior so the other couple that is inferior should be banished or punished? I never said no such thing.

I said homosexual union is not equal to heterosexual union, because homosexual union can never produce children. The exception proves the rule in cases not excepted.

Taking an individual case or the exception and then saying that therefore there is no rule of such thing does not work.

The general rule is that a man and woman is the only combination that can become pregnant. Homosexual unions do not allow that and just because there is individual cases of infertile heterosexual unions doesn’t mean that there is no inequality between the two unions.

Read response above.

[quote]4) Gay couples adopt children, and adopted children are not inferior to biological children.
[/quote]

Yes, and so can heterosexual couples, and it currently shows that children that grow up in a traditional household fare better.

For that matter platonic unions can adopt children, so can mother-daughter unions can adopt children, and convents can adopt children, as well.

However, homosexual couples can’t do something heterosexual couples can…they can’t get pregnant without going outside that union. They themselves cannot produce new lives, persons, humans, children, tax payers, or whatever it is that people call them.[/quote]

You’re claiming straight couples are superior because they can produce children.

This requires assuming that producing children is always a good thing.

That assumption is a value judgment, and has nothing to do with facts. So stop pretending that your bias against gays is somehow factual. It’s not. It comes down to your value system.

And let’s be honest here. It’s not just about producing children. If science allowed same sex couples to have biological children, I guarantee that you would still claim that straight couples are superior.

Your claim that straight couples do a better job raising children is also informed by your religious values, and in fact is contradicted by science. The facts show that children of gay couples are equally healthy on all measures of psychological, emotional, and physical health compared to children of straight couples.

Of course, you don’t like those facts because they fly in the face of your religious beliefs.

Brother Chris,

You will find that arguing with any rabid homosexual will not yield positive results. They and those who follow this politically correct thought process driven into them by a liberal media and left wing college campuses are bound to twist the facts and use out right distortions of truth to try to “win” the argument.

But you have the facts on your side.

1-Fact The very fabric of society has been based, for 5000 years, on the family structure one man one woman in marriage. Traditional marriage has been a stabilizing, nurturing unit for thousands of years.

2-Fact One man and one woman can have children IS the reason that it is a superior relationship. Without such a relationship the population dwindles.

3-Fact The unhealthy facts about homosexuality, which have been kept out of the lime light by the main stream liberal media, are all too apparent on the CDC web site. Homosexual men lead the way in virtually every sexual disease from HIV to STD’s and more including low scores on mental health. They have the highest rate of suicide of any group. Their lifestyle choices are so bad that even alcoholics live longer and healthier lives!

4-Fact Homosexuals have an abundance of sexual partners. The average homosexual male has up to 6 sexual partners outside of his so called “long term” relationship. Monogamy is not in their vocabulary, or part of their sexual culture.

5-Fact The jury is still out on the damage done to children adopted by two homosexuals. The homosexuals will tout a few short term studies but no one knows the long term negative effects of children adopted by homosexuals. Are we now to experiment on our children?

6-Fact The very same organization which began the legitimizing homosexuality, the APA, is now in the process of also trying to legitimize pedophilia! It seems that they will not be happy until every form of perversion is welcomed with open arms.

7-Fact There has not yet been even one legitimate argument which can refute the fact that if homosexuals are allowed to take part in marriage (bad enough) that other even more perverse groups will not want to take part such as, Incestuous couples, polygamists, and other strange alliances. And in fact one only need to google such relationships and they will see that some are already clamoring for marriage.

Good luck in your debate but keep in mind when you grab a hold of a snake they tend to twist and turn a lot, so don’t expect much.

Ha, ha!

Rabid homosexual? Better lock your doors!

Thanks for the laugh.

[quote]Christine wrote:
Ha, ha!

Rabid homosexual? Better lock your doors!

Thanks for the laugh.[/quote]

No problem, I figured that I owed you one since every time you slip over hear to PWI your posts make me roll on the floor laughing.

:slight_smile:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Brother Chris,

You will find that arguing with any rabid homosexual will not yield positive results. They and those who follow this politically correct thought process driven into them by a liberal media and left wing college campuses are bound to twist the facts and use out right distortions of truth to try to “win” the argument.

But you have the facts on your side.

1-Fact The very fabric of society has been based, for 5000 years, on the family structure one man one woman in marriage. Traditional marriage has been a stabilizing, nurturing unit for thousands of years.

2-Fact One man and one woman can have children IS the reason that it is a superior relationship. Without such a relationship the population dwindles.

3-Fact The unhealthy facts about homosexuality, which have been kept out of the lime light by the main stream liberal media, are all too apparent on the CDC web site. Homosexual men lead the way in virtually every sexual disease from HIV to STD’s and more including low scores on mental health. They have the highest rate of suicide of any group. Their lifestyle choices are so bad that even alcoholics live longer and healthier lives!

4-Fact Homosexuals have an abundance of sexual partners. The average homosexual male has up to 6 sexual partners outside of his so called “long term” relationship. Monogamy is not in their vocabulary, or part of their sexual culture.

5-Fact The jury is still out on the damage done to children adopted by two homosexuals. The homosexuals will tout a few short term studies but no one knows the long term negative effects of children adopted by homosexuals. Are we now to experiment on our children?

6-Fact The very same organization which began the legitimizing homosexuality, the APA, is now in the process of also trying to legitimize pedophilia! It seems that they will not be happy until every form of perversion is welcomed with open arms.

7-Fact There has not yet been even one legitimate argument which can refute the fact that if homosexuals are allowed to take part in marriage (bad enough) that other even more perverse groups will not want to take part such as, Incestuous couples, polygamists, and other strange alliances. And in fact one only need to google such relationships and they will see that some are already clamoring for marriage.

Good luck in your debate but keep in mind when you grab a hold of a snake they tend to twist and turn a lot, so don’t expect much.[/quote]

  1. Wrong

  2. Value judgement

  3. Look here, a fact! Followed by a biased interpretation of course.

  4. Sloppy interpretation of statistics.

  5. We do so all the time. Also, Nirvana fallacy.

  6. Maybe a fact, maybe not.

  7. Laws are based on facts? When did that happen?

Oh well, one fact out of a supposed seven is not entirely bad.

[quote]orion wrote:

  1. Wrong[/quote]

So you’re making the case that over all marriage has not been a stabilizing nurturing unit for children. Well now that’s interesting. So, you’re taking the side that it is better for children to not be brought up with a mother and father married to each other. Most Psychologists would disagree with you. Stability is a primary concern for children. Maybe you have some facts of your own to back up this asinine position? This might be your second dumbest comment of all seven although there are a few that are close.

The population does not dwindle if men and women do not procreate? LOL—moron! This is your dumbest comment. DUH—where do babies come from in Austria…LOL FOOL!

No bias just fact. Don’t like the stats? Oh…that’s a shame–Look>> :frowning: I feel for you.

Not at all in survey after survey it has been demonstrated that homosexual men have multiple partners when they say they’re in a committed relationship. The best number is 6, but I’ve read of far more. Once again you’re wrong. Eh…you’re getting used to it by now.

Then all you have to do to actually win this point is show me some long term stats that demonstrate that children raised by two homosexuals grow up happy healthy and well adjusted. But wait…you can’t do that. Darn…you lose again.

If you’re going to stick your face in every thread that I’m in you better pay more attention to the latest news. Now run along and go do your research. Go on…I know the Internet works in Austria you prove it here day after day.

One more time. Google polygamy and add the word marriage and you’ll read all about it. Come on you can do it. I am going to make you WORK for sticking you nose in this thread. And I am going to enjoy every minute of it! :slight_smile:

All seven facts have held up not one being refuted!

And in addition to that we all get to see how lazy you are.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

  1. Wrong[/quote]

So you’re making the case that over all marriage has not been a stabilizing nurturing unit for children. Well now that’s interesting. So, you’re taking the side that it is better for children to not be brought up with a mother and father married to each other. Most Psychologists would disagree with you. Stability is a primary concern for children. Maybe you have some facts of your own to back up this asinine position? This might be your second dumbest comment of all seven although there are a few that are close.

The population does not dwindle if men and women do not procreate? LOL—moron! This is your dumbest comment. DUH—where do babies come from in Austria…LOL FOOL!

No bias just fact. Don’t like the stats? Oh…that’s a shame–Look>> :frowning: I feel for you.

Not at all in survey after survey it has been demonstrated that homosexual men have multiple partners when they say they’re in a committed relationship. The best number is 6, but I’ve read of far more. Once again you’re wrong. Eh…you’re getting used to it by now.

Then all you have to do to actually win this point is show me some long term stats that demonstrate that children raised by two homosexuals grow up happy healthy and well adjusted. But wait…you can’t do that. Darn…you lose again.

If you’re going to stick your face in every thread that I’m in you better pay more attention to the latest news. Now run along and go do your research. Go on…I know the Internet works in Austria you prove it here day after day.

One more time. Google polygamy and add the word marriage and you’ll read all about it. Come on you can do it. I am going to make you WORK for sticking you nose in this thread. And I am going to enjoy every minute of it! :slight_smile:

All seven facts have held up not one being refuted!

And in addition to that we all get to see how lazy you are.
[/quote]

  1. Did you ever read the Bible? And you still insist that the modern idea of marriage has been around for 5000 years? Nonsense.

  2. So? Bigger population equals better? Value judgment.

  3. No, the statistics are more or less ok, the fact that you ascribe this to the mythical “homosexual” lifetstyle in its entirety is conjecture.

  4. What is the mean number of partners for a homosexual? Men, women or both? What is the standard deviation? Kind of matters.

  5. Now, what you would have to show is that the children adopted by homosexuals would have been brought up in what you deem to be a healthy, traditional marriage. Which is of course nonsense.

  6. Well, based on experience, if you present it as fact is is probably claptrap from a creationist website.

  7. Entirely beside the point. Weed is illegal, alcohol is not. Makes no sense whatsoever if reason was a guiding principle of law making.

Soooo, what did we have here?

Ad hominems, willful ignorance and obfuscation, no fact to be seen.

Sooo, just to clear up some of Zebs delusions I hereby introduce exhibit A:

It seems that the average gay guy has about as much partners in his lifetime than straight men, it is just that a relatively small percentage of men (2%) own a relatively large share of the gay sex market (23%).

I seriously doubt that those 2% are the ones desperately looking to get married or to adopt kids.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/

Since I am in the mood to do so, let is move on to exhibit B:

Different HIV Rates Among Gay Men And Straight People Not Fully Explained By Sexual Behavior

ScienceDaily (Sep. 14, 2007) â?? Differences in sexual behaviours do not fully explain why the US HIV epidemic affects gay men so much more than straight men and women, claims research published ahead of print in the journal Sexually Transmitted Infections.

In 2005, over half of new HIV infections diagnosed in the US were among gay men, and up to one in five gay men living in cities is thought to be HIV positive.

Yet two large population surveys showed that most gay men had similar numbers of unprotected sexual partners per year as straight men and women.

US researchers applied a series of carefully calculated equations in different scenarios to study the rate at which HIV infection has spread among gay men and straight men and women.

They used figures taken from two national surveys to estimate how many sex partners gay men and straight men and women have, and what proportion of gay men have insertive or receptive anal sex, or both.

They then set these figures against accepted estimates of how easily HIV is transmitted by vaginal and anal sex to calculate the size of the HIV epidemic in gay men and straight men and women.

The results showed that for the straight US population to experience an epidemic of HIV infection as great as that of gay men, they would need to average almost five unprotected sexual partners every year.

This is a rate almost three times that of gay men.

But to end the HIV epidemic, gay men would need to have rates of unprotected sex several times lower than those currently evident among the straight population. This is because transmission rates are higher for anal sex than they are for vaginal sex, say the authors.

But “role versatility,” whereby people adopt both “insertive” and “receptive roles,” also plays a part, they add.

A gay man can be easily infected through unprotected receptive sex, and then infect someone else through insertive sex.

Gay men are therefore far more susceptible to the spread of the virus through the population, even with the same numbers of unprotected sexual partners.

So, it turns out that increased rates of HIV infection are not caused by rampant gay sluttiness but by a virus preferring some entry points to others.

Now unless we seriously argue that Jehova has decided to smite homosexuals with the AIDS virus, I think we can attribute that to bad luck.

Which lead us to the claim that “1-Fact The very fabric of society has been based, for 5000 years, on the family structure one man one woman in marriage. Traditional marriage has been a stabilizing, nurturing unit for thousands of years.” which can easily refuted by a simple Wikipedia search:

According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry.[3] At the same time, even within societies which allow polygyny, the actual practice of polygyny occurs relatively rarely. There are exceptions: in Senegal, for example, nearly 47 percent of marriages are multiple.[6] To take on more than one wife often requires considerable resources: this may put polygamy beyond the means of the vast majority of people within those societies. Such appears the case in many traditional Islamic societies, and in Imperial China. Within polygynous societies, multiple wives often become a status symbol denoting wealth, power, and fame.

This is the proposed revision of the definition of pedophilia by the APA for the DSM V:

Pedohebephilic Disorder

A. Over a period of at least six months, one or both of the following, as manifested by fantasies, urges, or behaviors:

(1) recurrent and intense sexual arousal from prepubescent or pubescent children [5]

(2) equal or greater arousal from such children than from physically mature individuals [6]

B. One or more of the following signs or symptoms:

(1) the person has clinically significant distress or impairment in important areas of functioning from sexual attraction to children

(2) the person has sought sexual stimulation, on separate occasions, from either of the following:

(a) two or more different children, if both are prepubescent

(b) three or more different children, if one or more are pubescent [7]

(3) repeated use of , and greater arousal from, pornography depicting prepubescent or pubescent children than from pornography depicting physically mature persons, for a period of six months or longer [8]

C. The person is at least age 18 years and at least five years older than the children in Criterion A or Criterion B

So, that was also nonsense, but is quite a staple for a loooooot of sites that are short on facts and long on outrage.

[quote]orion wrote:

Soooo, what did we have here?

[/quote]

An Austrian who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.

  1. The institution of marriage has been around for thousands of years. whether it’s 5000, 3000, or 2000 years matters not. It’s a stable institution in which to raise kids. This is irrefutable and you just make yourself look bad (which you’re used to) by trying to argue the other side. In fact, it’s comical.

2-I’m not talking about a small population. I am talking about NO POPULATION. And that alone makes heterosexual relationships superior to homo relationships. Another one that makes you look foolish.

3-Mythical? I see you think that the CDC has made up these things. You are the one ascribing to the gay mythical lifestyle. Weeeee…no difference at all (eyes fully closed) and swallowing deep the politically correct talking points.

4-That was a poor dodge. The surveys vary but the point is THEY’RE NOT MONAGAMOUS. I’ve posted volumes of information demonstrating this point.

5-That’s not true. If you want to change how children are brought up you better have some stats to prove that “the new way” it is not detrimental to children. You don’t throw kids into an unknown environment.

6- I guess you don’t keep up with the news. You need to spend more time reading and paying attention to what’s happening and less time acting like an ass on T Nation. I think you would be quite a bit smarter and of course the rest of us would enjoy your absence.

7- Once marriage is open to same sex couples there will be no reason to not include other perversions as well. Now do what I told you and google polygamist marriage. If you do that you’ll see what I’m talking about. Open your eyes boy.

Post back with data supporting your point or shut up.

[quote]orion wrote:
This is the proposed revision of the definition of pedophilia by the APA for the DSM V:

Pedohebephilic Disorder

A. Over a period of at least six months, one or both of the following, as manifested by fantasies, urges, or behaviors:

(1) recurrent and intense sexual arousal from prepubescent or pubescent children [5]

(2) equal or greater arousal from such children than from physically mature individuals [6]

B. One or more of the following signs or symptoms:

(1) the person has clinically significant distress or impairment in important areas of functioning from sexual attraction to children

(2) the person has sought sexual stimulation, on separate occasions, from either of the following:

(a) two or more different children, if both are prepubescent

(b) three or more different children, if one or more are pubescent [7]

(3) repeated use of , and greater arousal from, pornography depicting prepubescent or pubescent children than from pornography depicting physically mature persons, for a period of six months or longer [8]

C. The person is at least age 18 years and at least five years older than the children in Criterion A or Criterion B

So, that was also nonsense, but is quite a staple for a loooooot of sites that are short on facts and long on outrage. [/quote]

As I said they are moving one step closer. Do you ever get anything right?

[quote]The American Psychiatric Association (APA) is working toward full
normalization of pedophilia and pederasty. Dr Fred Berlin of Johns Hopkins
is a main spokesman for the “normality” of pedophilia and pederasty…[/quote]

Judith Reisman:
APA Pro-Pedophilia
Please Note,
The American Psychiatric Association (APA) is working toward full
normalization of pedophilia and pederasty. Dr Fred Berlin of Johns Hopkins
is a main spokesman for the “normality” of pedophilia and pederasty, they
just shouldn’t “act on it.” This is the third “intellectual” and medical
generation building on Kinsey’s fraudulent child abuse data used to destroy
laws protecting women and children via the American Law Institute in 1955.
Judith Reisman, Ph.D.

Psychiatric Association Debates Lifting Pedophilia Taboo
By Lawrence Morahan
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
June 11, 2003

(CNSNews.com) - In a step critics charge could result in decriminalizing
sexual contact between adults and children, the American Psychiatric
Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants
discussed the removal of pedophilia from an upcoming edition of the
psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Psychiatrists attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco
proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness -
including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and
sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (DSM).

Most of the mental illnesses being considered for removal are known as
“paraphilias.”

Psychiatrist Charles Moser of San Francisco’s Institute for the Advanced
Study of Human Sexuality and co-author Peggy Kleinplatz of the University of
Ottawa presented conferees with a paper entitled “DSM-IV-TR and the
Paraphilias: An Argument for Removal.”

People whose sexual interests are atypical, culturally forbidden or
religiously proscribed should not necessarily be labeled mentally ill, they
argued.

Different societies stigmatize different sexual behaviors, and since the
existing research could not distinguish people with paraphilias from
so-called “normophilics,” there is no reason to diagnose paraphilics as
either a distinct group or psychologically unhealthy, Moser and Kleinplatz
stated.

Participants also debated gender-identity disorder, a condition in which a
person feels discomfort with his or her biological sex. Homosexual activists
have long argued that gender identity disorder should not be assumed to be
abnormal.

“The situation of the paraphilias at present parallels that of homosexuality
in the early 1970s. Without the support or political astuteness of those who
fought for the removal of homosexuality, the paraphilias continue to be
listed in the DSM,” Moser and Kleinplatz wrote.

A. Dean Byrd, vice president of the National Association for Research and
Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and a clinical professor of medicine at the
University of Utah, condemned the debate. Taking the paraphilias out of the
DSM without research would have negative consequences, he said.

“What this does, in essence, is it has a chilling effect on research,” Byrd
said. “That is, once you declassify it, there’s no reason to continue
studying it. What we know is that the paraphilias really impair
interpersonal sexual behavior…and to suggest that it could be ‘normalized’
simply takes away from the science, but more importantly, has a chilling
effect on research.”

“Normalizing” pedophilia would have enormous implications, especially since
civil laws closely follow the scientific community on social-moral matters,
said Linda Ames Nicolosi, NARTH publications director.

“If pedophilia is deemed normal by psychiatrists, then how can it remain
illegal?” Nicolosi asked. “It will be a tough fight to prove in the courts
that it should still be against the law.”

In previous articles, psychiatrists have argued that there is little or no
proof that sex with adults is necessarily harmful to minors. Indeed, they
have argued that many sexually molested children later look back on their
experience as positive, Nicolosi said.

“And other psychiatrists have written, again in scientific journals, that if
children can be forced to go to church, why should ‘consent’ be the defining
moral issue when it comes to sex?” she said.

But whether pedophilia should be judged “normal and healthy” is as much a
moral question as a scientific one, according to Nicolosi.

“The courts are so afraid of ‘legislating someone’s privately held religious
beliefs’ that if pedophilia is normalized, we will be hard put to defend the
retention of laws against child molestation,” Nicolosi noted.

In a fact sheet on pedophilia, the APA calls the behavior “criminal and
immoral.”

“An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a
criminal and immoral act that never can be considered normal or socially
acceptable behavior,” the APA said.

However, the APA failed to address whether it considers a person with a
pedophile orientation to have a mental disorder.

“That is the question that is being actively debated at this time within the
APA, and that is the question they have not answered when they respond that
such relationships are ‘immoral and illegal,’” Nicolosi said.

Dr. Darrel A. Regier, director of research for the APA, said there were “no
plans and there is no process set up that would lead to the removal of the
paraphilias from their consideration as legitimate mental disorders.”

Some years ago, the APA considered the question of whether a person who had
such attractions but did not act on them should still be labeled with a
disorder.

“We clarified in the DSM-IV-TR…that if a person acted on those urges, we
considered it a disorder,” Regier said.

Dr. Robert Spitzer, author of a study on change of sexual orientation that
he presented at the 2001 APA convention, took part in the symposium in San
Francisco in May.

Spitzer said the debate on removing gender identity disorder from the DSM
was generated by people in the homosexual activist community “who are
troubled by gender identity disorder in particular.”

Spitzer added: “I happen to think that’s a big mistake.”

What Spitzer considered the most outrageous proposal, to get rid of the
paraphilias, “doesn’t have the same support that the gender-identity
rethinking does.” And he said he considers it unlikely that changes would be
made regarding the paraphilias.

“Getting rid of the paraphilias, which would mean getting rid of pedophilia,
that would not happen in a million years. I think there might be some
compromise about gender-identity disorder,” he said.

Dr. Frederick Berlin, founder of the Sexual Disorders Clinic at the Johns
Hopkins Hospital, said people who are sexually attracted to children should
learn not to feel ashamed of their condition.

“I have no problem accepting the fact that someone, through no fault of his
own, is attracted to children. But certainly, such an individual has a
responsibility…not to act on it,” Berlin said.

“Many of these people need help in not acting on these very intense desires
in the same way that a drug addict or alcoholic may need help. Again, we
don’t for the most part blame someone these days for their alcoholism; we
don’t see it simply as a moral weakness,” he added.

“We do believe that these people have a disease or a disorder, but we also
recognize that in having it that it impairs their function, that it causes
them suffering that they need to turn for help,” Berlin said.

[quote]orion wrote:
Which lead us to the claim that “1-Fact The very fabric of society has been based, for 5000 years, on the family structure one man one woman in marriage. Traditional marriage has been a stabilizing, nurturing unit for thousands of years.” which can easily refuted by a simple Wikipedia search:

According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry.[3] At the same time, even within societies which allow polygyny, the actual practice of polygyny occurs relatively rarely. There are exceptions: in Senegal, for example, nearly 47 percent of marriages are multiple.[6] To take on more than one wife often requires considerable resources: this may put polygamy beyond the means of the vast majority of people within those societies. Such appears the case in many traditional Islamic societies, and in Imperial China. Within polygynous societies, multiple wives often become a status symbol denoting wealth, power, and fame.

[/quote]

Then why don’t you point out how many important and powerful societies allowed homosexual marriage.

Uh huh!