Teacher Suspended for Anti-Gay Marriage Post

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Here’s a question:

He attends a party on Saturday night hosted by his wife’s friend, completely unrelated to his school work, on the weekend. While there, he makes the same viewpoints clear in a discussion among acquaintances. Someone related to his school happens to overhear the remarks and, “offended,” the next morning makes a phone call to the school board complaining of his “disturbing” remarks. Same situation ensues.

Would some of you advise him that what he needs to do is “get off” the party circuit and keep his damned medieval worldview to himself? [/quote]

If I worked at a Christian school and made disparaging comments about Jesus at a party, what would happen?

Sometimes, people need to learn to just shut the hell up.

The people on this website who openly support the use of steroids and other drugs (or use them) could easily get into trouble if their employers saw a face shot and linked it to their profile - it’s the same principle. The internet is not private.

42

Let me repeat my feelings on this (since it appears to be going into that PWI “Mis-Interpretation Zone”):

  1. He was wrongfully terminated.

  2. He was stupid to post it on Social Media, with student and faculty “friends”, in the first place.

Mufasa

43

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Here’s a question:

He attends a party on Saturday night hosted by his wife’s friend, completely unrelated to his school work, on the weekend. While there, he makes the same viewpoints clear in a discussion among acquaintances. Someone related to his school happens to overhear the remarks and, “offended,” the next morning makes a phone call to the school board complaining of his “disturbing” remarks. Same situation ensues.

Would some of you advise him that what he needs to do is “get off” the party circuit and keep his damned medieval worldview to himself? [/quote]

If I worked at a Christian school and made disparaging comments about Jesus at a party, what would happen?

Sometimes, people need to learn to just shut the hell up.

The people on this website who openly support the use of steroids and other drugs (or use them) could easily get into trouble if their employers saw a face shot and linked it to their profile - it’s the same principle. The internet is not private.[/quote]

Two bad analogies, Mak.

  1. Unless he is a teacher of homosexuality, his comments are not equivalent as he is not expected to support or even have an opinion on homosexuality in order to execute his duties.

  2. Steroids are unfortunately illegal, and publicly condoning and supporting illegal activity is, again, not the equivalent of having an opinion on highly contentious matter.

While I agree that, realistically speaking, he should know better than to say things that are not in lockstep with the liberal progressive agenda, I would have hoped to hear a bit more ire directed at the school board and the system that supports this kind of bullshit, rather than making it out to sound like he is the bad guy.

Another thought experiment. Same situation, either Facebook or the party, take your pick, and a teacher expresses how moronic he finds Christianity to me. A Christian, reading or overhearing this, reports him to the school board, who subsequently and immediately suspends him pending further investigation.

Is this really where we want our society to go? You guys aren’t just a bit more worried about the society that nurtures and encourages this sort of Orwellian behavior?

I’ll remember that next time you talk about atheists never being able to get elected to public office. They should just shut the hell up about their beliefs. In all situations. Everywhere.

44

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Let me repeat my feelings on this (since it appears to be going into that PWI “Mis-Interpretation Zone”):

  1. He was wrongfully terminated.

  2. He was stupid to post it on Social Media, with student and faculty “friends”, in the first place.

Mufasa [/quote]

Please see my post above to Mak, Mufasa.

You, too, seem more focused on the teacher’s misdeed than upon the very serious implications it has for modern society.

45

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Here’s a question:

He attends a party on Saturday night hosted by his wife’s friend, completely unrelated to his school work, on the weekend. While there, he makes the same viewpoints clear in a discussion among acquaintances. Someone related to his school happens to overhear the remarks and, “offended,” the next morning makes a phone call to the school board complaining of his “disturbing” remarks. Same situation ensues.

Would some of you advise him that what he needs to do is “get off” the party circuit and keep his damned medieval worldview to himself? [/quote]

I would be thinking he needs to be go to better parties.

46

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Its scary that people can get fired for having an opinion on a matter, even when the opinion is utterly stupid
as in this case.[/quote]

Not sure how it is even wrong for this man to express this opinion in “public.” It is a private opinion, it doesn’t matter if he says it in “public” or not. The State is not enforcing his opinion, his students don’t have to accept this teaching.

I’m just going to guess people really don’t actually understand what the word “tolerance” is. It doesn’t mean we can’t say what is right or wrong, it means that if someone has the freedom to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others’ viewpoints.

[/quote]

So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?

47

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I agree on much of what you wrote, but in the class room its important that the teacher strives to be as objective as possible and if she or he absolutly must share theire wiew point on a subject, they should tell there students that this is not a fact, but there own
subjective opinion. [/quote]

But, I do think it is a fact that homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions. [/quote]

Lol.

48

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Its scary that people can get fired for having an opinion on a matter, even when the opinion is utterly stupid
as in this case.[/quote]

Not sure how it is even wrong for this man to express this opinion in “public.” It is a private opinion, it doesn’t matter if he says it in “public” or not. The State is not enforcing his opinion, his students don’t have to accept this teaching.

I’m just going to guess people really don’t actually understand what the word “tolerance” is. It doesn’t mean we can’t say what is right or wrong, it means that if someone has the freedom to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others’ viewpoints.

[/quote]

So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

No but at this time he has to be fine with liberal progressive trash spouting this everyday in schools.

it is s double standard.

49

If this were a private company they would have every write to fire him for whatever reason they want, but because they are a state entity representing the state, they should first consult the tax payers.

Where I work, I can get fired for statements or actions outside of work.

this is just another instance that shows why the school or many other currently public institutes should not be government run and taxpayer funded.

50

[quote]dr.mcmc wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
…Haha, I would say that both positions( anti and pro gay marriage ) are opinion based. Its a issue of values. Its not a issue that can be settled trough collecting empiric data to prove the other camp wrong or to prove your own position right etc.
[/quote]

This is some of the most dangerous thinking of our age. It’s lazy and a cop-out. Regardless of whether one is personally for, against, or even undecided about gay marriage, the discarding of logical, empirical thought in the matter is absolutely the thing one must avoid.

Of course gay marriage can be settled through collecting empirical data. It’s absolutely something that can be measured, tested, and logically evaluated. Instead, too much of the debate on the matter (from both sides) seeks to sidestep this, to keep the topic immune from critical evaluation. Those in favor of gay marriage seem to be taking what they FEEL or WANT to be correct and are trying to give it the imprimatur of a “rights” issue, i.e., give gay marriage the trump card of our age, a free pass from critical evaluation. At the same time, those opposed to gay marriage too often position it entirely as a moral issue–as if appealing to an (unshared, by the way) higher, religious authority could somehow convince the opposition. The argument, “because marriage has nearly always been this way”, left all by itself, isn’t an argument at all.

The present discussion for and against gay marriage is an example in the worst way of blurred thinking over focused thinking. It’s the elevation of the personal, subjective, and emotional over the logical. Gay marriage is indeed an empirical issue–and should be evaluated as such. Sloppy thinking, or the entire avoidance of thinking (by calling gay marriage merely an issue of opinion), is a cheap opiate.[/quote]

What criteria would you suggest for measuring, testing, and logically evaluating gay marriage?

51

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

But, I do think it is a fact that homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions. [/quote]

That’s awfully harsh Chris. Just because heterosexual unions are able to produce children. And just because there has been no long-term research about the devastating effects of what living with two homosexuals can do to a child. And just because the overwhelming majority of homosexual men are virtually incapable of a long-term relationship without going outside of that relationship for sex. And just because the homosexual lifestyle is THE most dangerous one of any group of people including alcoholics (according to the CDC). And just because homosexual “marriage” spits in the face of our 5000 year old Judeo-Christian heritage. And just because…okay…I guess your statement is not so harsh.

52

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Its scary that people can get fired for having an opinion on a matter, even when the opinion is utterly stupid
as in this case.[/quote]

Not sure how it is even wrong for this man to express this opinion in “public.” It is a private opinion, it doesn’t matter if he says it in “public” or not. The State is not enforcing his opinion, his students don’t have to accept this teaching.

I’m just going to guess people really don’t actually understand what the word “tolerance” is. It doesn’t mean we can’t say what is right or wrong, it means that if someone has the freedom to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others’ viewpoints.

[/quote]

So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

No but at this time he has to be fine with liberal progressive trash spouting this everyday in schools.

it is s double standard.[/quote]

It’s not a double standard, at least not for most of us posting in this thread.

  1. If you’re not ok with him making anti-Catholic comments in the classroom, you shouldn’t be ok with him making anti-gay comments in the classroom.

  2. If you’re ok with him posting anti-gay comments on Facebook, you should be ok with him posting anti-Catholic comments on Facebook.

I think #1 is crossing the line, but #2, while in poor taste, isn’t.

53

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Its scary that people can get fired for having an opinion on a matter, even when the opinion is utterly stupid
as in this case.[/quote]

Not sure how it is even wrong for this man to express this opinion in “public.” It is a private opinion, it doesn’t matter if he says it in “public” or not. The State is not enforcing his opinion, his students don’t have to accept this teaching.

I’m just going to guess people really don’t actually understand what the word “tolerance” is. It doesn’t mean we can’t say what is right or wrong, it means that if someone has the freedom to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others’ viewpoints.

[/quote]

So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

No but at this time he has to be fine with liberal progressive trash spouting this everyday in schools.

it is s double standard.[/quote]

It’s not a double standard, at least not for most of us posting in this thread.

  1. If you’re not ok with him making anti-Catholic comments in the classroom, you shouldn’t be ok with him making anti-gay comments in the classroom.

  2. If you’re ok with him posting anti-gay comments on Facebook, you should be ok with him posting anti-Catholic comments on Facebook.

I think #1 is crossing the line, but #2, while in poor taste, isn’t.
[/quote]

I agree with this. I do think you may have misinterpreted Chris’s meaning, though obviously I can’t speak for him. I think he was talking about speech that occurs outside of school in private. Hence the quotes around “public.”

54

But most companies that pay salary say you act as a representative outside work and will fire you for statements outside of work.

Forlife, I meant the double standard is what is actually taking place in schools on a regular basis, not necessarily this instance. That there are many instances of educators over stepping their bounds and disseminating opinions they have no right to in their role.

55

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
But most companies that pay salary say you act as a representative outside work and will fire you for statements outside of work.

Forlife, I meant the double standard is what is actually taking place in schools on a regular basis, not necessarily this instance. That there are many instances of educators over stepping their bounds and disseminating opinions they have no right to in their role.[/quote]

If that’s the case, I agree that schools should be consistent in enforcing their policies. If they selectively punish certain perspectives while ignoring other perspectives they happen to agree with, they are as guilty of bias as the teachers they hypocritically condemn.

56

[quote]forlife wrote:
So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

How are the two the same?

57

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

How are the two the same?[/quote]

That you need to ask this question says volumes about your current education, maturity, and world view. Hopefully in time your perspective will better match Pat’s, but there’s no guarantee it ever will.

58

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

How are the two the same?[/quote]

That you need to ask this question says volumes about your current education, maturity, and world view. Hopefully in time your perspective will better match Pat’s, but there’s no guarantee it ever will.[/quote]

The only person I compare myself to is Jesus. Don’t cop out, give some fraternal correction.

Tell me how the two are the same.

Homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions.
Homosexual acts are inherently sinful.
Homosexuality isn’t inherently sinful, but it is not form of concupiscence and disordered somewhat.

Homosexuals are called to a chaste life, like the rest of the human population.

Now, unless this guy did something I am not seeing, I’m not sure how disagreeing with homosexual unions is the same as bashing Catholics.

59

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
So you would be fine if he was a Calvinist who told his students that Catholicism is a corrupt faith led by charlatans guilty of the worst atrocities in religious history?[/quote]

How are the two the same?[/quote]

That you need to ask this question says volumes about your current education, maturity, and world view. Hopefully in time your perspective will better match Pat’s, but there’s no guarantee it ever will.[/quote]

The only person I compare myself to is Jesus. Don’t cop out, give some fraternal correction.

Tell me how the two are the same.

Homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions.
Homosexual acts are inherently sinful.
Homosexuality isn’t inherently sinful, but it is not form of concupiscence and disordered somewhat.

[/quote]

Can you prove these claims with empirical evidence?

  1. Why arent homosexual unions equal to heterosexual unions?

  2. How is homosexual acts inherently sinful from a non-religious perspective?

Your last claim I didnt fully understand, so I dont bother ask about it.

60

-i’m an high school teacher.
-i have a facebook account, with a few dozens of my students and ex-student as “friends”.
-i’m not favorable to gay marriage.
-i will never post anything about this on my facebook account, and i will never “speak my mind” about this in my classroom.

when a student ask me about this kind of “politic and world issues”, i always answer that my opinion doesn’t matter at all.
If they insist (it happens sometimes), i just play the “devil advocate” : i try to give counterarguments to their arguments.
it’s the same thing if i speak with a 19yo bisexual (and liberal) girl or a recently reconverted franco-algerian muslim. (i have been in both situations, btw).

my job is not to “solve” these issues, but to show how complex they are.
Doing otherwise would be directly against the deontology rules i agreed to respect when i accepted my charge.