She should lose her entire pension and health benefits. Teachers have an exceptional retirement plan and lifetime health benefits around here.
What a tool. I guess she has a disease like every other degenerate that gets caught.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
ElbowStrike wrote:
I don’t see how locking up a 59-year-old cokehead in prison for three years is an effective strategy for solving the drug addiction.
– ElbowStrike
I do. I’m usually for some type of rehabilitation in certain circumstance, but the fact of the matter is that she committed a couple of crimes which she should be punished for.[/quote]
For three years?
Those are your tax dollars paying for those three years of incarceration.
I’d rather pay for 12-24 weeks of intensive psychiatric treatment with a three-year ban on teaching than to be able to look at this person and think, “See? That’s not me. I’m better because I am not that.”
This is great, but as I understand it they are optional.
Perhaps a more cost-effective treatment would be for the perpetrator to be prescribed 12-24-36-XX weeks of psychiatric treatment and intensive psychotherapy – the price of nonadherence being a three year prison sentence.
Then at least we’re only paying for her therapy instead of her living costs, security costs, utilities, recreation costs, AND her therapy on top of all that.
Apparently not, but prison doesn’t seem to be a very cost-effective method for reducing crime – I’d rather have the long-term benefits of lower taxes and overall crime than higher taxes and the short-term satisfaction that “the bad guys” are locked up “behind bars”.
But that’s just me.
What what this thread about, again?
– ElbowStrike
[quote]Sxio wrote:
ElbowStrike wrote:
I don’t see how locking up a 59-year-old cokehead in prison for three years is an effective strategy for solving the drug addiction.
It’s like having a dog that bites, then putting it in a kennel for three years with other dogs that bite. That’ll fix the biting problem!
– ElbowStrike
Good quote! I was watching ‘cops’ last night and they were busting a lot of drug users, mostly crack users. And the users always break down and say “please, I can’t go to jail” etc etc. I just felt so bad for them, they’re so pathetic. I don’t know what putting them in jail achieves, it just destroys their lives more. It would be better to put them in some kind of institution to get them clean and teach them some life skills.
Send the violent criminals to jail. Drugs addicts are mostly pathetic and only a threat to themselves.
[/quote]
Screw that, I was taught life skills without the government paying for it. What you are talking about is very , very, very expensive. What do we do? Build a school, provide counseling, education, and so for a cost of tons a year?
Why should waste products get the breaks when a struggling single mom gets crap?
I got married to a wonderful woman last may. She got pregnant at 17. Unfortunately, the guy that she was with got involved in drugs. So bad that he went to jail, hit her, went to jail again, and so on. He is such a loser that he didn’t pay child support. She got no help form the courts. It seems when you are that much of a tool, it costs to much money to chase after someone who you won’t get money from.
During various jail stays, he was fed better than my wife and stepdaughter. He had a gym, he had a chance to take college classes. No one offered her free room and board or college.
She had to move home because she couldn’t do it on her own. Good for me and good for her now, but she went through hell.
When she was 19 ( 32 now) she had to walk 3 miles to work at a sewing factory that could readily be classified as a sweat shop. It seems that the druggie totaled their car and destroyed her bike , both while high.
Yeah, she’s doing well now, but where was the help for the non druggie who busted their ass to support the child? Everyone boo hoos the poor addict, but what about us who are responsible and clean up after their self indulgent messes.
Screw the addicts, put them in jail longer. screw Anna Nicole Smith, my wife’s ex and so. Where is the celebration of the normal and good who chose the right path.
Disease my ass. there’s one way not to be an addict. Don’t every try it. I’d give the teacher 10- 20 for doing it at school. Loss of pension and health benefits would also be ideal.
[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
ElbowStrike wrote:
I don’t see how locking up a 59-year-old cokehead in prison for three years is an effective strategy for solving the drug addiction.
– ElbowStrike
I do. I’m usually for some type of rehabilitation in certain circumstance, but the fact of the matter is that she committed a couple of crimes which she should be punished for.
For three years?
Those are your tax dollars paying for those three years of incarceration.
I’d rather pay for 12-24 weeks of intensive psychiatric treatment with a three-year ban on teaching than to be able to look at this person and think, “See? That’s not me. I’m better because I am not that.”
If she should choose to do so, there are recovery programs available for people who are incarcerated. That would be time well spent, combined with follow up/recovery maintenance upon release.
This is great, but as I understand it they are optional.
Perhaps a more cost-effective treatment would be for the perpetrator to be prescribed 12-24-36-XX weeks of psychiatric treatment and intensive psychotherapy – the price of nonadherence being a three year prison sentence.
Then at least we’re only paying for her therapy instead of her living costs, security costs, utilities, recreation costs, AND her therapy on top of all that.
Being an addict is not a get out of jail free card.
Apparently not, but prison doesn’t seem to be a very cost-effective method for reducing crime – I’d rather have the long-term benefits of lower taxes and overall crime than higher taxes and the short-term satisfaction that “the bad guys” are locked up “behind bars”.
But that’s just me.
What what this thread about, again?
– ElbowStrike[/quote]
Do you seriously think 12-24 weeks of therapy would fix her?
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Do you seriously think 12-24 weeks of therapy would fix her?
[/quote]
No. But 12-24 weeks on the V-Diet with the HOT-ROX Extreme would.
I don’t understand people’s infatuation with cocaine. I tried it long ago, and I hated it. It is one messed up drug.
Hmm, I see the vindictive folks come out for all issues.
Isn’t it sufficient the person is convicted of the crimes committed and serves the punishment?
What does it help to suggest they should have their pension and benefits appropriated? All that means is that we’d end up footing the bills for this person for their rest of their life… because who’s going to hire an ex-con who does coke in class to teach?
Keep in mind, while a bad influence, this person didn’t take any hostages, give or sell drugs to children, threaten anyone, or in all likelihood cause any emotional trauma.
Sure, it’s absolutely freaking ludicrous, ridiculous and stupendous, but try to keep things in perspective.
I don’t see how teachers are underpayed. Sure when they are starting out it isnt great, but after 10-15 years there makin around 75k a year. For 9 months a year of work, 7 hours a day, and a crapload of holidays. And the whole they have to grade and plan arguement is bull. Most of my teachers just gave us a worksheet to do and then make us grade it in class. Now some of my acad classes (within the school we had a gifted program) had teachers who worked hard, but unfortunately that had no bearing on pay.
thechampiom.org or something will give salary info on all government employees.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Screw that, I was taught life skills without the government paying for it. What you are talking about is very , very, very expensive. What do we do? Build a school, provide counseling, education, and so for a cost of tons a year?
[…]
Screw the addicts, put them in jail longer. screw Anna Nicole Smith, my wife’s ex and so. Where is the celebration of the normal and good who chose the right path.
Disease my ass. there’s one way not to be an addict. Don’t every try it. I’d give the teacher 10- 20 for doing it at school. Loss of pension and health benefits would also be ideal.
[/quote]
I agree with your post on the fairness aspect but there’s a bit of inconsistency on the financial logic. First you say rehab is too expensive, then you point out all the benefits a POS got in prison- and from what you wrote he was a criminal even if drugs weren’t considered- and then you suggest addicts be put in prison longer. Even if prison is stripped to the bare minimum in expenses/“comforts”, it’s still extremely expensive.
Also, wasn’t it mentioned that she was a substitute? They don’t get pensions, do they?
[quote]etaco wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Screw that, I was taught life skills without the government paying for it. What you are talking about is very , very, very expensive. What do we do? Build a school, provide counseling, education, and so for a cost of tons a year?
[…]
Screw the addicts, put them in jail longer. screw Anna Nicole Smith, my wife’s ex and so. Where is the celebration of the normal and good who chose the right path.
Disease my ass. there’s one way not to be an addict. Don’t every try it. I’d give the teacher 10- 20 for doing it at school. Loss of pension and health benefits would also be ideal.
I agree with your post on the fairness aspect but there’s a bit of inconsistency on the financial logic. First you say rehab is too expensive, then you point out all the benefits a POS got in prison- and from what you wrote he was a criminal even if drugs weren’t considered- and then you suggest addicts be put in prison longer. Even if prison is stripped to the bare minimum in expenses/“comforts”, it’s still extremely expensive.
Also, wasn’t it mentioned that she was a substitute? They don’t get pensions, do they?[/quote]
If she was a retired teacher she gets a great pension and benefits. She’s was just making more money now.
Financial logic, I’ll show you some. I’m a medical professional. I get a DUI, I can lose my license for a year or two. Other crimes carry the same or more penalties in regards to suspension or complete loss of license. Drugs are a big one. I could lose my right to practice forever.
Teachers cry they are professionals, then why not suffer the consequences that a professioanl suffers? Make the punishment serious and people might think how serious it is to do lines at schoo;.
And for those of you who aren’t twenty, do you realize how mind boggling and ridiculous it is to hear this? people just shrug it off. If you don’t tolerate nonsense, less of it occurs.
And loss of her pension and benefits would be fine, since taxpayers are paying more for her pension and benefits, than they would if she was on welfare. In case you didn’t realize, it’s the taxpayers that pay that hefty pension and BC/BS policy forever. No one but a congressman has it better in this regard.
[quote]etaco wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Screw that, I was taught life skills without the government paying for it. What you are talking about is very , very, very expensive. What do we do? Build a school, provide counseling, education, and so for a cost of tons a year?
[…]
Screw the addicts, put them in jail longer. screw Anna Nicole Smith, my wife’s ex and so. Where is the celebration of the normal and good who chose the right path.
Disease my ass. there’s one way not to be an addict. Don’t every try it. I’d give the teacher 10- 20 for doing it at school. Loss of pension and health benefits would also be ideal.
I agree with your post on the fairness aspect but there’s a bit of inconsistency on the financial logic. First you say rehab is too expensive, then you point out all the benefits a POS got in prison- and from what you wrote he was a criminal even if drugs weren’t considered- and then you suggest addicts be put in prison longer. Even if prison is stripped to the bare minimum in expenses/“comforts”, it’s still extremely expensive.
Also, wasn’t it mentioned that she was a substitute? They don’t get pensions, do they?[/quote]
I’m not in favor of most of those extras that prisoners get or have had in the past. There’s no way a prisoner should get what a single mom can’t get, benefit wise.
[quote]vroom wrote:
I think the moral of the story is that old people can do coke too!
Power to the geriatric generation… don’t you feel empowered now HH?[/quote]
LOL! But watch out…me and my fellow AARP members will attack Canada!! 
[quote]vroom wrote:
Hmm, I see the vindictive folks come out for all issues.
Isn’t it sufficient the person is convicted of the crimes committed and serves the punishment?
What does it help to suggest they should have their pension and benefits appropriated? All that means is that we’d end up footing the bills for this person for their rest of their life… because who’s going to hire an ex-con who does coke in class to teach?
Keep in mind, while a bad influence, this person didn’t take any hostages, give or sell drugs to children, threaten anyone, or in all likelihood cause any emotional trauma.
Sure, it’s absolutely freaking ludicrous, ridiculous and stupendous, but try to keep things in perspective.[/quote]
Dude, this was a TEACHER, responsible for the wellfare of her students, snorting COCAINE IN THE CLASSROOM. What don’t you get? She didn’t get busted doing drugs in her house. She did it in the classroom! Yes, she should lose her pension. She destroyed the trust and confidence we place in teachers. She committed a felony in the classroom in front of 4th graders. Why is this hard to understand? This is a bad thing.
“All that means is that we’d end up footing the bills for this person for their rest of their life… because who’s going to hire an ex-con who does coke in class to teach?”
She should have thought of that herself. Not my fault, she should be punished. No free ride because I’m worried about her future employment opportunities.
Taking her pension sends a message. Think about the whole, not the individual. I doubt this was a “first time” for this teacher. What else has she done that she got away with?
Come on, guys. This is about the safety of our children, and you want to go soft. Why do we always worry about the criminals in this country?
[quote]Taquito wrote:
I don’t see how teachers are underpayed. Sure when they are starting out it isnt great, but after 10-15 years there makin around 75k a year. For 9 months a year of work, 7 hours a day, and a crapload of holidays. And the whole they have to grade and plan arguement is bull. Most of my teachers just gave us a worksheet to do and then make us grade it in class. Now some of my acad classes (within the school we had a gifted program) had teachers who worked hard, but unfortunately that had no bearing on pay.
thechampiom.org or something will give salary info on all government employees.[/quote]
The problem is the low salaries in the first 5 to 10 years. How do you pay rent, car, taxes, and so forth (along with student loans) on $24,000 to start? Do you know that roughly half of all teachers leave in the first couple of years, simply because they can’t pay the rent (unless you want to live in a hovel)?
Sure, if you stick it out, you get tenure and maybe 50k/year. Trouble is, that’s what most engineers start at. Hell, its what lots of grads start at, or close to.
So, pay teachers like K-Mart clerks, you get K-Mart clerks in the classroom.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Teachers have an exceptional retirement plan and lifetime health benefits around here.
[/quote]
Really, I’m in the wrong state it sucks here!!!
Wow, I just seen another response saying teachers had good benefits, retirement, and pay. Where do you get this info. from. 50k, after ten years??? Where??? Not for any teacher in this area.
[quote]unforgiven2 wrote:
Wow, I just seen another response saying teachers had good benefits, retirement, and pay. Where do you get this info. from. 50k, after ten years??? Where??? Not for any teacher in this area.[/quote]
Teachers in my area of PA get paid fairly well. I grew up in upstate NY and they got paid very well up there.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Wow, I just seen another response saying teachers had good benefits, retirement, and pay. Where do you get this info. from. 50k, after ten years??? Where??? Not for any teacher in this area.
Teachers in my area of PA get paid fairly well. I grew up in upstate NY and they got paid very well up there.[/quote]
Yeah, you need to move to PA unforgiven.
My wife is in her first year of teaching and is making $44k, she’ll be above $50k in 3 years, and the payscale tops out at $108k.
Granted, the cost of living is probably triple what it is in OK.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Send the violent criminals to jail. Drugs addicts are mostly pathetic and only a threat to themselves.
[/quote]
Have you ever been around Meth addicts?
Pathic? Yup. Only a threat to themselves? Not quite…
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Wow, I just seen another response saying teachers had good benefits, retirement, and pay. Where do you get this info. from. 50k, after ten years??? Where??? Not for any teacher in this area.
Teachers in my area of PA get paid fairly well. I grew up in upstate NY and they got paid very well up there.
Yeah, you need to move to PA unforgiven.
My wife is in her first year of teaching and is making $44k, she’ll be above $50k in 3 years, and the payscale tops out at $108k.
Granted, the cost of living is probably triple what it is in OK.[/quote]
Wow, teaching and assitant coaching, I’m making somewhere around 33 or 34 a year. That’s with 8 years down.