Tea Party - Hilarity After the Jump...

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I’m sorry, your attempt to retcon your posts simply can’t hold amy attention. I just wanted to point out that, not only do you suck the dick on one party, I am a communist, not a Democrat. Maybe get some info from someone other than Glenn Beck and you’ll be better informed.[/quote]

I love the interaction of this debate between the left and the right. It’s very entertaining. Outside of that, the thing that just boggles my mind are the many people like Ryan P. McCarter who have no problem openly calling themselves communists and socialists. Are people like you really that ignorant and uneducated about history, the economy and politics in general?

Everyone’s gonna have differences when it comes to certain beliefs and getting things effectively done certain ways, but never in modern history has a socialist or communist government ever led a successful country. Socialists and communists talk about everyone having equal rights but those types of government squash all individual freedoms.

One of you ignorant fools like Ryan P. give me one example, just one single example of a socialist or communist government being successful and I will buy you all the Biotest supps you like. It’s not gonna happen. Why does every single Russian or Venezuelan national that comes to the U.S. just shake their head when people like you speak? It’s because they’ve seen first hand how socialism and communism destroy nations and people. Ask Ozzie Guillen how he feels about your friend Sean Penn.
[/quote]

Fleck:

Let me add: They’ve killed more of their own/other people than any other form of government COMBINED.

Want a real eye-opener, take a look at stalin’s body count.

It’s unbelievable.

Oh, the communists’ response to “it’s failed everywhere” is: “It hasn’t been implemented properly.”

I kid you not. I’ve read this response.

Their micro-brains cannot figure out that just about EVERY culture has tried it in some form or another and it’s a monumental failure in each and every instance.

JeffR

62

I firmly believe the debt was a factor of the underlying economic instability and contributed to the near collapse and recession. That you are unaware of how or why people believe this speaks volumes.

You asked for bullet points? Here is an excerpt from (…wait for it…) The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Economics © 2003 by Tom Gorman.

People who believe that deficits and the national debt do matter point out that â?¦

* Continual deficit spending displays lack of fiscal discipline on the part of the government and on the part of the citizens, who want government goodies without having to pay for them.
* This lack of fiscal discipline spills over into the private sector, where households and businesses have become â??addicted to debt.â??
* Interest payments on the national debt represent a substantial claim on tax revenues that could be better spent on other things.
* Future generations will bear the burden of today's debt and either have to pay the interest on it or pay down the principal, or both.
* Deficit spending and high debt limit the government's fiscal policy options: If deficit spending is the norm, how much more (deficit) spending will be needed to stimulate a sluggish economy?
* Foreign entities now hold about $1 trillion of U.S. government securities. If their willingness to buy or hold that debt diminishes, we would have to absorb it.

These points are hard to contradict, except perhaps for the last one: Foreign entities seem to enjoy the safety, liquidity, and interest rates provided by U.S. government securities.

Economists themselves view the issue as quite complex, but on balance generally believe that â?¦

* Future generations bear an unfair burden if the debt being passed on to them is not accompanied by a corresponding level of productive capital.
* Debt in foreign hands sends money out of the country, but this may be offset if the debt is used to finance capital that produces additional income.
* We make the interest and principal payments (mostly) to ourselves. However, these amount to transfer payments when the people paying the taxes are not the same as the people holding the securities and receiving the interest and principal payments.
* Indefinite and unbridled deficit spending can lead to inflation and, potentially, economic instability. It can undermine credibility in the government's ability to manage the economy.

The Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (who you will meet) said it best: â??There is no such thing as a free lunch.â?? Is it conceivable that each generation of citizens could consistently demand more public goods and services than they are willing to pay for and generate no economic consequences?

For more fun, google or wiki “debt” and “the east asian financial crisis.”

Have a nice day. Try not to throw another personal attack when you see this.

63

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

I firmly believe the debt was a factor of the underlying economic instability and contributed to the near collapse and recession. That you are unaware of how or why people believe this speaks volumes. [/quote]

I never said such - in fact, I hate deficits and would not have cut taxes like Bush did and would have used the projected surplus (for as long as it lasted) to pay down the debt.

I said fiscal policies did not cause our asset bubble and our credit crisis. I never said deficits were good or “had no effect on the economic environment” - I even said that fiscal policy exacerbated the crisis…but it didn’t cause it.

As to your bullet points from your book, not a one of them explains how taxing and spending caused the asset bubble and credit crisis. Not one. I am not taking issue with their veracity generally, because I actually agree with them. But this isn’t an explanation for your thesis that taxing and spending caused the crisis.

These bullet points are general ideas about why deficits are bad or troublesome. I don’t disagree with a one of them. I think that reckless government spending - and deficity spending- has all kinds of pernicious effects on an economy.

What you have not explained is how fiscal policy caused the crisis - your claims. Stop hiding behind nonsense and back your claim. You do this every time - when pressed for an easy, clear explanation, you hide behind online articles, etc. that don’t even address the direct question.

For your insistent whining that there is no “dialogue” here, you are one of the worst offenders. Just type an answer to the question.

Next time, have the stones to engage in a conversation and explain yourself if you are going to jump in and start declaring someone “wrong”. Got that, “first tier”?

64

"Oh, the communists’ response to “it’s failed everywhere” is: “It hasn’t been implemented properly.”

I kid you not. I’ve read this response.

Their micro-brains cannot figure out that just about EVERY culture has tried it in some form or another and it’s a monumental failure in each and every instance.

JeffR"

I’ve heard that response on several occasions also. “It just hasn’t been properly implemented.” How do you properly implement having the government forcefully take money from someone who has worked their butts off to become successful and share their wealth with lazy people unwilling to work for anything?

The more government assistance breeds even more lazy people unwilling to work because they know they will be taken care of regardless. But wait; then the government runs out of money so we have to kill a few hundred thousand here and a few hundred thousand there so there are less mouths to feed and less opposition to our policies. The sad thing about the current state of America is people use to do everything they could to not be associated with communism and now a lot of people feel almost empowered by coming out and calling themselves communisits or marxists or socialists. It’s sad.

65

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
I am a communist, not a Democrat. .[/quote]

Truer words have not been spoken in this forum.

66

[quote]pat wrote:
Fine this is how all liberals think, act and behave… It’s all, not a lunatic fringe… This is all liberals because this one video proves it.

Wow, all that occurred on the 3th of June?

Look, nobody is saying that conservatives/republicans/libertarians are dumb. At least I hope not. What the video shows at least minimally is that the strongest opponents of this bill have no clue what’s inside it. It also shows many of the people in the vid simply listen to the running commentary at fox News. When you couple that with an angry mentality pushed on by consrvative leaders that vehemently believes they are protecting American values this whole debacle becomes ridiculous.

67

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Fine this is how all liberals think, act and behave… It’s all, not a lunatic fringe… This is all liberals because this one video proves it.

Wow, all that occurred on the 3th of June?

Look, nobody is saying that conservatives/republicans/libertarians are dumb. At least I hope not. What the video shows at least minimally is that the strongest opponents of this bill have no clue what’s inside it. It also shows many of the people in the vid simply listen to the running commentary at fox News. When you couple that with an angry mentality pushed on by consrvative leaders that vehemently believes they are protecting American values this whole debacle becomes ridiculous. [/quote]

It’s funny to me how FOX News is always quoted when liberals/democrats/progressives/socialists/communists talk about how ignorant conservatives are and how they just listen to FOX’s lies, yet every other media outlet outside of AM talk radio is on the far left and have repeatedly been shown to have made up lies like Dan Rathers or Dan I’d Rather Lie.

I always hear how conservatives just lie and liberals are so honest yet you hear Colmes debate a conservative and Colmes just throws out opinions and insults and his opponent actually brings up facts. FOX News, FOX News, FOX News. Do year hear the ignorance coming out of MSNBC? The truth is the truth. When liberal or conservative politicians have to make deals and lie to pass things, then they’re both in the wrong. I hate politicians in general on both side, but it has become very clear to me the past couple of years where most of the lying and manipulation has come from and it isn’t all coming from FOX. Chris Matthews is one of the biggest idiots I’ve ever listened to.

68

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

I firmly believe the debt was a factor of the underlying economic instability and contributed to the near collapse and recession. That you are unaware of how or why people believe this speaks volumes. [/quote]

I never said such - in fact, I hate deficits and would not have cut taxes like Bush did and would have used the projected surplus (for as long as it lasted) to pay down the debt.

I said fiscal policies did not cause our asset bubble and our credit crisis. I never said deficits were good or “had no effect on the economic environment” - I even said that fiscal policy exacerbated the crisis…but it didn’t cause it.[/quote]

I see; you think it “contributed” but did not “cause” is that right?

Let’s keep playing semantics, shall we?

[quote]
What you have not explained is how fiscal policy caused the crisis - your claims. Stop hiding behind nonsense and back your claim. You do this every time - when pressed for an easy, clear explanation, you hide behind online articles, etc. that don’t even address the direct question.[/quote] contribute, cause…gotcha. You’re quite “nuanced”

[quote]
For your insistent whining that there is no “dialogue” here, you are one of the worst offenders. Just type an answer to the question.[/quote]

You ask questions filled with strawmen, personal attacks, and (general) ignorance, and then expect direct answers? No thank you.

lol. Got it, you believe it “contributed to but did not cause” Sorry young man, these things are VERY much related. You can play these semantic games if you’d like, though. Let me put it this way, if the same “causes” (the ones you like) happened without the underlying economic instability, would the same result have occurred? (OMG! Is it then… a cause?!?) Counterfactuals being what they are it’s a hard question to answer… I’m sure you’ll tell me about “contributions” though.

Try to follow along next time, son.

69

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

I see; you think it “contributed” but did not “cause” is that right?

Let’s keep playing semantics, shall we?[/quote]

Go read what I replied to Ryan - I said it didn’t cause it, but it exacerbated it. It’s been there the whole time. I provided Ryan with “non-free market” reasons as to why the crisis happened - namely monetary policy. Fsical policy exacerbated it because it tied the demand-side response to the crisis. But, it didn’t cause it.

There are no semantics in play - I was explaining something to Ryan. You swooped in on a comment made to someone else to challenge whether or not fiscal policy “caused” the crisis (which, it didn’t).

And you still haven’t explained why fiscal policy was a “major cause” of the crisis.

Here we go, I can set my watch to your evasive nonsense. Why don’t you just explain why taxing and spending caused our asset bubble in housing and unsustainable credit expansion?

Name one strawman - I haven’t misrepresented your position. Name anything I have been ignorant on. You can’t. You don’t have direct answers, that is why you won’t provide any.

Oh no! CAPITAL LETTERS. Yawn.

Read above, yup, already said so. Borrowers were induced to go borrow at unconcious levels, creating an unsustainable asset bubble - whether we had Clinton tax rates or Bush tax rates had no effect on this.

Why the deficit spending exacerbates the problem is that it gives the government less power to enact demand-side stimulus to counteract the crisis.

Now, explain the causal relationship between lowering taxes, government spending, and how that caused the asset bubble, etc. Surely - surely - a “first tier” can do this, right?

Gambit, let’s face facts here - you have no idea what you are talking about. Your knowledge is thikn at best, and when pressed on questions you don’t know the answer to, you go skim some website and try to “fake it”. It’s tiresome. Your cocksure posturing is wasted - we get it, you don’t know economics.

Maybe if we get a thread going on “first tier” education programs, you can validate yourself.

70

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Here we go, I can set my watch to your evasive nonsense. Why don’t you just explain why taxing and spending caused our asset bubble in housing and unsustainable credit expansion?

Name one strawman - I haven’t misrepresented your position. Name anything I have been ignorant on. You can’t. You don’t have direct answers, that is why you won’t provide any.
[/quote]

The one above this one…big boy.

71

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

The one above this one…big boy.[/quote]

You’re saying that is a straw man? Which statement?

There is no straw man in that whole quote. Thanks for playing though.

72

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Doesn’t mean they’re dumb - it means they have lives running businesses, raising children, and working on their short game. [/quote]

If they’re too busy to keep up with politics and current events, then they’re too busy to spend an entire day publicly embarrassing themselves (and everybody else) by acting like rabid idiots at a half-baked political rally. If you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, maybe don’t make that obvious to everyone by carrying signs (or doing video inteviews).

They’re actually just repeating the alarmist propaganda that they hear on Hate Radio and Fox News.

Don’t get me wrong - I love the Tea Party. I love the way they are going to fracture the GOP vote even further. I love the way they alienate minorities and independents, as well as the few sensible Republicans that are still left.

73

Woman at a town hall yelling “heil hitler” at a jewish man who supports health care reform.

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I find that ironic, because Hilter was a facist Socialist.