Tea Party - Hilarity After the Jump...

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Good thing they protested the spending of the Bush administration and the Patriot Act.

Oh.[/quote]

Oh, you don’t understand! It takes time for the rage to accumulate, and so it only bubbles up LATER, during the next Democratic administration.[/quote]

Oh gee, didn’t obama just extend the patriot act? Oh yes, he indeed did.[/quote]

You’ve basically just proved two of my points with a single post. Thanks.

For one, yes, he did just extend the Patriot Act. But somehow, he’s still a “radical leftist.”

Second, the Patriot Act has been around for a little while now. If the Tea Party is complaining about it, it just underscores my point about how disingenuous their protests are.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
The thing that kills me is that some of these people are yelling things like “We want jobs! Not a healthcare bill!” yet, if we passed a comprehensive jobs bill, these same people would be up in arms about the increase in the deficit and the government “control” of the economy. Then they wonder why they are ignored?[/quote]

That’s because democrats are fundamental morons who think that legislation must cast trillions of dollars and raise taxes to pass any legislation. All we need is the government to take their foot off the necks off of business so they can operate. That’s costs very little money to do.[/quote]

Yeah, they should get a clue, like those brainy Republicans. You don’t have to pay for these billion dollar spending sprees! Suckers!

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

Funny how (some) Republicans decided to speak out against that.[/quote]

Had this (some) previously supported it prior to denouncing Obama’s extension?
[/quote]

How should I know? They never said anything until Obama showed up.

LOL

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

The thing that kills me is that some of these people are yelling things like “We want jobs! Not a healthcare bill!” yet, if we passed a comprehensive jobs bill, these same people would be up in arms about the increase in the deficit and the government “control” of the economy. Then they wonder why they are ignored?[/quote]

Who said that just because someone wants “jobs” that they automatically must mean an unfunded mandate or similar of deficit spending to create “jobs”?

With unemployment hovering at 10% and the near-birth of the “mother of all unfunded mandates”, which will require massive tax increases, there is little reason to think the economic climate will be roaring to produce jobs. Businesses - especially small ones - are withholding expansion in the face of all this uncertainty.

Might just be a good idea to create some sense of stability in the economy in order to improve the “jobs” outlook. But raw ideology has trumped all maturity in Congress.

At any rate, with a house with a damaged roof in need of fixing, the current President and Congress decide to build a swimming pool. It is a near-unthinkable tone-deafness as to financial priorities, and ordinary people - real ones, not the imagined construct of spoiled socialists - have noticed.[/quote]

Exactly, I can actually fire my staff of a few part timers and do the work myself if necessary. And it might come to that. It would save me a bit per year.

I have a small town chiropractic office btw. In this business climate and with this bill, I’m not hiring and expanding my hours.

Liberals are idiots, they think they can just wave the tax wand and business owners will continue to do what they’re doing and risk their own capital, expand, hire more people, buy a new building and equipment, even with the burden they want to place on businesses.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Because to do anything meaningful for the economy, it would require deficit financing. Another stimulus, basically.[/quote]

Incorrect. Businesses begin hiring when their prospects look good and stable for the middle term. Additional deficit spending - and the taxes to cover them, the threats of inflation, and the loss of the strength of the dollar (hello, exporters) - would give businesses pause. This isn’t theoretical - ask a small business owner if you ever venture into the world.

This is called a straw man - nowhere did I support the “policies that got us here in the first place.” My God, why are the left-wingers around here so bad at argumentation?

I don’t support any of the policies that “got us here” - cheap money, privatized reward with socialized risk, unsustainable “growth at all costs!” incentives.

Staw man number two - I think (and have thought for some time) that health care needs massive reform. But all governments must prioritize, and health care was not in a crisis. It simply wasn’t. This was an ideological push - a Social Democrat’s idea of a new “civil rights” (though it isn’t) - not one of necessity.

Moreover, Obama and Pelosi have consistently presented a false choice - that there is their version of “reform” and there is the status quo. It’s nonsense to anyone who thinks, of course - reform could take many shapes and means.

After all, by way of pure hypothetical, even if I supported this “everyone is covered by mandate” approach (and I don’t), why not break it up into stages? Why not do something about the ever-increasing costs first, and then plug the uninsured and pre-existing class into a sustainable system of health care?

Reform isn’t a one way street, and the American people know it. Health care needed to be addressed, but it wasn’t a top priority or a crisis. This was pure ideology in play, and the American people are not thrilled with it.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
You mean, the fact that without a job, you cannot support yourself? Some of us don’t want to take a handout. [/quote]

Did you even read my post? That’s my point. The gvoernment COULD give you a job, but then you’d complain that they borrowed money to do it, and that they are interfering with the economy. It seems like you just want to criticize Obama.[/quote]

The government give me a job? And pay with my salary with tax payer money? THAT’S THE PROBLEM. Again, you seem to think that government creates wealth. I am not interested in contributing to this country becoming Greece. The more government workers you have, the more cubicle hamsters you have, and the more pensions you have to pay for.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Good thing they protested the spending of the Bush administration and the Patriot Act.

Oh.[/quote]

Oh, you don’t understand! It takes time for the rage to accumulate, and so it only bubbles up LATER, during the next Democratic administration.[/quote]

Oh gee, didn’t obama just extend the patriot act? Oh yes, he indeed did.[/quote]

You’ve basically just proved two of my points with a single post. Thanks.

For one, yes, he did just extend the Patriot Act. But somehow, he’s still a “radical leftist.”

Second, the Patriot Act has been around for a little while now. If the Tea Party is complaining about it, it just underscores my point about how disingenuous their protests are.[/quote]

To bad you haven’t been paying attention. We have never liked the patriot act…It was a very liberal minded move…We are for small government. We don’t suck the exclusive dick of one party like you folks. We never liked it and we spoke out about it.

Oh I’m sorry, I was confused, since the Recovery Act created over a million jobs, while the Bush tax cuts (which should make business prospects look good) did pretty much nil aside from increasing the deficit.

You’re a free-market guy, right? Those are the policies that got us here.

Oh, so we should wait for a looming crisis. Got it.

But why break it up into stages? Some of these issues really can’t be addressed singly.

I’m sorry, your attempt to retcon your posts simply can’t hold amy attention. I just wanted to point out that, not only do you suck the dick on one party, I am a communist, not a Democrat. Maybe get some info from someone other than Glenn Beck and you’ll be better informed.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I’m sorry, your attempt to retcon your posts simply can’t hold amy attention. I just wanted to point out that, not only do you suck the dick on one party, I am a communist, not a Democrat. Maybe get some info from someone other than Glenn Beck and you’ll be better informed.[/quote]

LOL. Wow. One of you is semi-retarded and it ain’t Pat.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You’re a free-market guy, right? Those are the policies that got us here.
[/quote]

Ryan, I’m sorry but you are terribly confused. I have no idea how you got this way - but I beg you to please look up the words “incentives” and “warped” - and then consider how intervention at all levels of government have warped incentives so radically that the “free market” exists only rarely and briefly. Most of the problems we face today - healthcare included - are traceable to policies adopted and passed by liberal, progressive politicians of all parties.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Oh I’m sorry, I was confused, since the Recovery Act created over a million jobs…[/quote]

Laughable. What jobs are you referring to exactly?

Straw man number three. I would have used the projected surplus to pay down the debt first, not cut taxes immediately. Are you trying to set a record?

At any rate, the tax cuts and massive deficits didn’t cause the turmoil, but they exacerbate it.

Generally, yes, and you are completely incorrect. The policies that “got us here” were cheap money (artifically low interest rates designed to induce borrowers to just “borrow and spend, please! on anything!”, not a market phenomenon), abuses in the system of government sponsored enterprises and their incentives to effect policy (not a market phenomenon), and profligate government spending.

No one said we did. I get the feeling you have no idea what you are talking about, other than copying and pasting “socialist!” talking points. If you could just post your pre-programmed manifesto, it would save us all a lot of trouble.

Sure they can. First, implement policy that lowers costs. Then, we evaluate how many people can now afford health insurance who could not before - more should be able to buy in. That clarifies the pool of the truly needy. Then, implement policy till your heart is content now that you have truly identified those in need of help.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< abuses in the system of government sponsored enterprises >>>[/quote]
I could be wrong, but I have feeling this is where you and I part company somewhat.

You say “abuses” in government sponsored enterprises seemingly suggesting that without the abuses those enterprises are good things. I might, MIGHT, in some cases be able to grant that if it weren’t for the fact that human nature, if it’s taught us anything, guarantees that abuses and government sponsored enterprises will invariably become synonymous.

We have exactly zero examples where that has not been the case

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

I could be wrong, but I have feeling this is where you and I part company somewhat.

You say “abuses” in government sponsored enterprises seemingly suggesting that without the abuses those enterprises are good things. I might, MIGHT, in some cases be able to grant that if it weren’t for the fact that human nature, if it’s taught us anything, guarantees that abuses and government sponsored enterprises will invariably become synonymous.[/quote]

I think this is fair - although I tend to be pretty skeptical of GSEs. That said, I’d clarify by saying that they are “fair” things, not necessarily “good” things, but I have, as a practical matter, seen more success in the field of agriculture, as long as it remains limited.

(I also note your point about them remaining “limited”, a point we agree on)

[quote]thefederalist wrote:
THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest - YouTube [/quote]

So are we looking at the principles and ideas behind the Tea Party?
Or just the character and intellect of some of their fans and supporters?

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

[quote]thefederalist wrote:
THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest - YouTube [/quote]

So are we looking at the principles and ideas behind the Tea Party?
Or just the character and intellect of some of their fans and supporters?[/quote]

Show us someone who better represents the broader Tea Party movement.

I’ll be honest with you: I think it got hijacked by Dick Army and other interests, and the Ron Paul crowd lost it. All the teapartiers I see interviewed or writing online, sound about like these guys. They all get pretty much all their news from Fox, and don’t allow decenting opinions influence their judgments.

It comes off as a movement financed by wealthy corporate/Republican interests, motivating one of the most ignorant segments of American society into protesting and yelling fact-less gibberish.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

Show us someone who better represents the broader Tea Party movement.
[/quote]

Sure. Me.

[quote]I’ll be honest with you: I think it got hijacked by Dick Army and other interests, and the Ron Paul crowd lost it. All the teapartiers I see interviewed or writing online, sound about like these guys. They all get pretty much all their news from Fox, and don’t allow decenting opinions influence their judgments.

It comes off as a movement financed by wealthy corporate/Republican interests, motivating one of the most ignorant segments of American society into protesting and yelling fact-less gibberish.[/quote]

You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Sounds like you get most of your “news” from the legacy media. Way to be their tool. But really, I hope you remain ignorant of what is happening and what is about to happen. It’ll make our job that much easier. Tools like you are easy to manipulate - and even easier to out-maneuver.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Oh I’m sorry, I was confused, since the Recovery Act created over a million jobs…[/quote]

Laughable. What jobs are you referring to exactly?[/quote]

I don’t really (almost) ever agree with either you or Ryan, but perhaps he was referring to the CBO’s report but forgot to say “4th quarter?”

On that basis,
CBO estimates that in the fourth quarter of calendar year
2009, ARRA added between 1.0 million and 2.1 million
to the number of workers employed in the United States,
and it increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs
by between 1.4 million and 3.0 million.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/110xx/doc11044/02-23-ARRA.pdf

[quote]

At any rate, the tax cuts and massive deficits didn’t cause the turmoil, but they exacerbate it.[/quote]

They most certainly were a major cause of the turmoil. As any tea party-ier will tell you. (although most will probably claim in was justified because a Republican was presi…I mean because we HAD TO!)

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Oh I’m sorry, I was confused, since the Recovery Act created over a million jobs…[/quote]

Laughable. What jobs are you referring to exactly?[/quote]

I don’t really (almost) ever agree with either you or Ryan, but perhaps he was referring to the CBO’s report but forgot to say “4th quarter?”

On that basis,
CBO estimates that in the fourth quarter of calendar year
2009, ARRA added between 1.0 million and 2.1 million
to the number of workers employed in the United States,
and it increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs
by between 1.4 million and 3.0 million.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/110xx/doc11044/02-23-ARRA.pdf

[quote]

At any rate, the tax cuts and massive deficits didn’t cause the turmoil, but they exacerbate it.[/quote]

They most certainly were a major cause of the turmoil. As any tea party-ier will tell you. (although most will probably claim in was justified because a Republican was presi…I mean because we HAD TO!) [/quote]

“What is seen and what is not seen” , by Bastiat, specially the part about jobs created by government.

For ever job the government creates it destroys two.