Tea Parties Steeped in Insanity?

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
The American Conservative’s Daniel McCarthy has a good post on the tea parties:

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2009/04/16/that-tea-is-spiked-with-kool-aid/#more-1707[/quote]

While I agree with his basic premise, I think he’s missing the boat with these tea-parties.

In all of the coverage I saw, there was actually quite a bit of anti-Republican sentiment. Bush was heavily criticized, Michael Steele was denied an opportunity to speak, lots of signs, that I saw, that were heavily critical of Bush and the Republicans.

Recall the video of the amateurish “journalist” CNN had in Chicago: remember the sign “Republicans SUCK too!”

From what I saw, I saw protests that were definitely not limited to anti-Democrat, anti-Obama marches. These protesters are not happy with Republicans either, and I don’t think they’ll allow the GOP to seize control of the movement.

That’s why I think those who dismiss or marginalize these protests as partisan marches of sore losers are underestimating just how many Americans share the sentiments of the protesters.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
<<< Having the right emotional response to war or taxes is not enough. >>>

This idiotic statement right here discredited just about everything else this clown had to say.

Care to elaborate?[/quote]

National defense is a constitutional mandate. It’s the one thing we are SUPPOSED to be spending tons of money on and now more than ever. This world is more dangerous than it’s ever been and that “militaristic” fiend GW Bush will look better and better as far as foreign policy is concerned as we get stepped on in the international arena because of all this pacifistic bullshit.

It’s the one thing he did right.

Taxes are a necessary evil at best and those opposing the level we have been enduring do not belong in the same sentence with these fruitcake peaceniks living in wonderland. Planet Earth IS war and like I’ve said a hundred times, he with the biggest gun wins. That just how it is. The first to lay down their arms and pull back to their own borders in this day and age of technology will be the first to get their ass shot off by one of the others who are not so foolish.

If I had my way we’d cease and desist from all this self destructive poisonous social spending, slash all taxes across the board and spend what’s left on even MORE military resources. Not only is that not a waste of money as this dumbass tries to convey it is essential to survival and shockingly called for in our constitution.

Anybody who believes the founders of this country would draw some hundred mile border, or whatever, around this nation and not act with force until that was breached… in the 21st century, is living an unfortunate rerun of Barney the Purple Dinosaur.

These tea parties were jubilant, law abiding and peaceful unlike the useless slugs who come out of the woodwork every time this nation squeezes a trigger. Our many and increasingly resourceful enemies are counting on their stupid starry eyed sentiments doing half their job for them. Uncle Ho has taught the world a valuable lesson that it seems we still have yet to counter.

With the intelligence we and all our allies had at the time and probably even with out it I’d support going into Iraq again tomorrow along with dealing with Iraq, N. Korea, Afghanistan and anybody else who poses a threat all of which we would be able to afford with billions to spare if we didn’t waste untold fortunes on the SSA, HUD, DOE etc, eTC, ETC, ETC, ETC. I couldn’t care less what the rest of the world thinks beyond their ability and willingness to help us. If not then tough.

That’s a recipe for long term strength and survival. I’m well aware that there are now international economic issues that make that very very difficult, but I would have never played us into a position of vulnerability there either if it were up to me. That’s another whole topic of discussion.

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
The American Conservative’s Daniel McCarthy has a good post on the tea parties:

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2009/04/16/that-tea-is-spiked-with-kool-aid/#more-1707

While I agree with his basic premise, I think he’s missing the boat with these tea-parties.

In all of the coverage I saw, there was actually quite a bit of anti-Republican sentiment. Bush was heavily criticized, Michael Steele was denied an opportunity to speak, lots of signs, that I saw, that were heavily critical of Bush and the Republicans.

Recall the video of the amateurish “journalist” CNN had in Chicago: remember the sign “Republicans SUCK too!”

From what I saw, I saw protests that were definitely not limited to anti-Democrat, anti-Obama marches. These protesters are not happy with Republicans either, and I don’t think they’ll allow the GOP to seize control of the movement.

That’s why I think those who dismiss or marginalize these protests as partisan marches of sore losers are underestimating just how many Americans share the sentiments of the protesters. [/quote]

Glad to hear it, but I don’t think he’s saying it’s solely an anti-Obama phenomenon, just that often these things are too easily co-opted by the powers that be. The whole Sarah Palin fiasco comes to mind.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
<<< Having the right emotional response to war or taxes is not enough. >>>

This idiotic statement right here discredited just about everything else this clown had to say.

Care to elaborate?

National defense is a constitutional mandate. It’s the one thing we are SUPPOSED to be spending tons of money on and now more than ever. This world is more dangerous than it’s ever been and that “militaristic” fiend GW Bush will look better and better as far as foreign policy is concerned as we get stepped on in the international arena because of all this pacifistic bullshit.

It’s the one thing he did right.

Taxes are a necessary evil at best and those opposing the level we have been enduring do not belong in the same sentence with these fruitcake peaceniks living in wonderland. Planet Earth IS war and like I’ve said a hundred times, he with the biggest gun wins. That just how it is. The first to lay down their arms and pull back to their own borders in this day and age of technology will be the first to get their ass shot off by one of the others who are not so foolish.

If I had my way we’d cease and desist from all this self destructive poisonous social spending, slash all taxes across the board and spend what’s left on even MORE military resources. Not only is that not a waste of money as this dumbass tries to convey it is essential to survival and shockingly called for in our constitution.

Anybody who believes the founders of this country would draw some hundred mile border, or whatever, around this nation and not act with force until that was breached… in the 21st century, is living an unfortunate rerun of Barney the Purple Dinosaur.
[/quote]

Wow, you might want to do a little reading of history, not to mention use a minimum of common sense. We spend almost as much on defense as THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED, and you want us to spend more?! So that we can start an arms race with one or more countries we have no rational reason to fight (Russia, China)? Or so that we can use $250 million planes to bomb rag-clad guerrillas (or, too often, the civilians they hide amongst)? Or is it just so that we can continue to use our military to (attempt to) solve the rest of the world’s problems?

As for history - many if not most of the Founders were completely opposed to large standing armies. There’s a reason for that. And overseas interventions? Let’s see, Washington’s Farewell Address, John Quincy Adams’ “we go not abroad in search of monsters to slay,” countless other examples.

Never mind the fact that war is invariably one of the most powerful agents of centralization and government tyranny there is. Read up on Woodrow Wilson, or look at the Cold War security state, or Bush and now Obama spying on our citizens, or a million other examples from every place and time in human history.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
<<< Having the right emotional response to war or taxes is not enough. >>>

This idiotic statement right here discredited just about everything else this clown had to say.

Care to elaborate?

National defense is a constitutional mandate. It’s the one thing we are SUPPOSED to be spending tons of money on and now more than ever. This world is more dangerous than it’s ever been and that “militaristic” fiend GW Bush will look better and better as far as foreign policy is concerned as we get stepped on in the international arena because of all this pacifistic bullshit.
[/quote]

National defense may be, but national offense is definitely not the job of a government and empire building is a danger to the republic.

I could hit you with a wall of text from people who actually wrote your constitution but let us just say that spending more on “defense” than all other nations combined and waging a war every five to ten years or so for shits and giggles means stretching their mandate quite a bit.

I went to 2 Tea Parties over the weekend.

Attendance at each was about 2000 people at each. The organizers in both events were housewives and the locations were in public parks. Zero media coverage and both were held in towns where they don’t get 2000 people to attend anything. A big story to ignore.

A few politicians spoke. All GOP and local. They were supportive. Both the Democrats and the Republicans had registration tables set up. Of course the Dems took a lot of ribbing from the attendees, and they should, but the local reps are far less supportive of DC then anyone thinks.
The pols were not the best speakers. The attendees did a far better job speaking. Veterans, mothers of servicemen, small business owners were far more passionate in their oratory.

The bit about labeling these people potential terrorists, especially the recently returning veterans has backfired. It has fired up the GOP base and the Democrats are trying tho hide from it. Not one local Dem rep. stood behind the comment and they did their best to denounce it. I’m sure the Obamanistas are not happy about that.

I’ve seen Anti-War and Anti Bush rallies. They are hate filled lynch mobs compared to a Tea Party. They were also much smaller compared to a Tea Party.

I saw a total of 4 law enforcement officers at the latest rally. Two were park rangers two were local cops. I talked to them to get a count of the crowd at one of the events. I asked him about the crowd and he said “these folks are never a problem…salt of the earth type folks”. I have to agree.

In a way I am glad the media is ignoring these events. It will give the movement time to grow. The Dems are in fear right now and they should be. 2000 highly motivated people in a small county will cast 2000 votes and influence countless others. A 2-4K vote block will sway most Congressional races and nearly all state elections short of Governor. I don’t think the overseers realize this is the start of a groundswell of voter disatisfaction not the end of it.

IMO, defense spending needs to happen, but maybe not to the extent it has been for the past 15 years. I’ve seen reports of politicians (even liberal Dems) who write in defense spending provisions for unrequested items (I specifically remember cargo aircraft and some destroyers) to support their constituencies, even though DOD did not need or ask for these items.

Not sure how to do it, but the waste needs to be controlled.

I strongly favor advanced projects like F22 in order to maintain the technological advantage, but I’m not sure we need almost 200 of them given the current lack of likelyhood of a shooting war with a nation we would need to fight for air superiority.

Also, San Antonio PD estimated the Alamo Tea Party attendance at 20,000 at it’s peak.

http://www.theythinkyouarestupid.com/index.shtml

EDIT: The link didn’t work the first time

[quote]hedo wrote:
I went to 2 Tea Parties over the weekend.

Attendance at each was about 2000 people at each. The organizers in both events were housewives and the locations were in public parks. Zero media coverage and both were held in towns where they don’t get 2000 people to attend anything. A big story to ignore.

A few politicians spoke. All GOP and local. They were supportive. Both the Democrats and the Republicans had registration tables set up. Of course the Dems took a lot of ribbing from the attendees, and they should, but the local reps are far less supportive of DC then anyone thinks.
The pols were not the best speakers. The attendees did a far better job speaking. Veterans, mothers of servicemen, small business owners were far more passionate in their oratory.

The bit about labeling these people potential terrorists, especially the recently returning veterans has backfired. It has fired up the GOP base and the Democrats are trying tho hide from it. Not one local Dem rep. stood behind the comment and they did their best to denounce it. I’m sure the Obamanistas are not happy about that.

I’ve seen Anti-War and Anti Bush rallies. They are hate filled lynch mobs compared to a Tea Party. They were also much smaller compared to a Tea Party.

I saw a total of 4 law enforcement officers at the latest rally. Two were park rangers two were local cops. I talked to them to get a count of the crowd at one of the events. I asked him about the crowd and he said “these folks are never a problem…salt of the earth type folks”. I have to agree.

In a way I am glad the media is ignoring these events. It will give the movement time to grow. The Dems are in fear right now and they should be. 2000 highly motivated people in a small county will cast 2000 votes and influence countless others. A 2-4K vote block will sway most Congressional races and nearly all state elections short of Governor. I don’t think the overseers realize this is the start of a groundswell of voter disatisfaction not the end of it.

[/quote]

Mind naming the towns you were at? I took my daughter out yesterday and did not know about any locally. Actually, Hazleton, a town 20 miles north of me had a tea party on Wednesday with app. 150 people and Alan Keyes as a speaker. I would have attended, but didn’t hear anything about it previously.

Philly and Washington’s Crossing, PA. Went to the Philly one early and the Washington’s Crossing event late.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Philly and Washington’s Crossing, PA. Went to the Philly one early and the Washington’s Crossing event late.[/quote]

Okay, a little out of my way but I’m glad to hear there were more.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
in the 21st century, is living an unfortunate rerun of Barney the Purple Dinosaur.

Wow, you might want to do a little reading of history, not to mention use a minimum of common sense. We spend almost as much on defense as THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED, and you want us to spend more?! So that we can start an arms race with one or more countries we have no rational reason to fight (Russia, China)? Or so that we can use $250 million planes to bomb rag-clad guerrillas (or, too often, the civilians they hide amongst)? Or is it just so that we can continue to use our military to (attempt to) solve the rest of the world’s problems?

As for history - many if not most of the Founders were completely opposed to large standing armies. There’s a reason for that. And overseas interventions? Let’s see, Washington’s Farewell Address, John Quincy Adams’ “we go not abroad in search of monsters to slay,” countless other examples.

Never mind the fact that war is invariably one of the most powerful agents of centralization and government tyranny there is. Read up on Woodrow Wilson, or look at the Cold War security state, or Bush and now Obama spying on our citizens, or a million other examples from every place and time in human history.[/quote]

I chose my words carefully.

They lived in an era when it took a couple months for a paragraph to be conveyed between continents and the next big communications breakthrough was the Pony Express. Black powder was the pinnacle of arms technology and we had not yet achieved superpower status luring a disturbingly large portion of the rest of the world into an envious crusade for our demise.

Had those same men lived today, the spirit and the goals they set forth would unavoidably require an “adjusted” attitude toward the geopolitical arena reflecting the realities of a post industrialized age.

Again, I could not care less what the rest of the world does and especially with military spending or policy. The whole of human history is replete with lessons concerning under preparedness and the underestimation of one’s enemies. I want my country and my children’s future preserved. Regrettably, human nature being what it is, that means the deprivation of somebody else of their future until the nations of the world fall into each other’s arms in tearful reconciliation. You’ll Lemme know when you see that on the horizon won’t ya?.

Mark my words, the day we are truly no longer perceived as the preeminent power in the world, which is coming quick, not only the United States, but the rest of this planet will have changed for the drastically worse. The sneering trans nationalists reading this will have to experience it first hand before becoming believers to be sure.

Somebody will always and forever be attempting to export their way of life the rest of the globe… by force. Those who do so never have the individual liberty and well being of the conquered in mind. To deny either of the above is tantamount to a fervent belief in leprechauns and unicorns. I have no problem spending whatever is necessary in blood and treasure seeing that they do not succeed. Unlike the era of colonial America, or actually in a much amplified way, an aggressive enemy foothold “over there” presents a clear and present danger over here. What if Cuba were 200 miles further from the continental US? Should we have them let Kruschev have his way? 300? OK, 500.

For the record I would like nothing more than global peace and even, GASP, a global government is not entirely repugnant to me if it were the right one. Washington’s sentiments in his farewell address concerning community of consent and the nationally binding nature of constitutional law carried to it’s logical conclusion would allow as much.

Human nature will never suffer it to be and that being the case, he with the biggest gun still wins.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Obama aide takes dim view of anti-tax tea parties
[/quote]

It’s like that CNN reporter trying to tell that guy that he was getting a tax cut and why was he upset. Even if that were true these people have no concept of somebody having a larger view than their own immediate self interest. I qualify for every supposed benefit of all this crap and I’m opposed to all of it because it’s bad policy based on a fatally flawed ideology that will damage, maybe mortally, the country I love and that my posterity will have to live in.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pushharder wrote:

Obama aide takes dim view of anti-tax tea parties

It’s like that CNN reporter trying to tell that guy that he was getting a tax cut and why was he upset. Even if that were true these people have no concept of somebody having a larger view than their own immediate self interest. I qualify for every supposed benefit of all this crap and I’m opposed to all of it because it’s bad policy based on a fatally flawed ideology that will damage, maybe mortally, the country I love and that my posterity will have to live in.[/quote]

True, why take his 400$ in the first place. she was acting like the government was giving him a huge present and he should be happy. It’s our money, not the government’s.

An interesting take:

[i]Cable Wars Are Killing Objectivity

By DAVID CARR
Published: April 19, 2009

Apparently there is an ingredient in tea that causes hysteria when given to cable news anchors. How else to explain the coverage of the tax day tea parties on Wednesday, which was the day when we procrastinators finally mailed the check to the feds?

The movement ? if that?s what it is ? was spawned by a rant on Feb. 19 from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange during a live report by the CNBC reporter ? if that?s what he is ? Rick Santelli, suggesting that it was time to organize a ?tea party? to protest government spending on failed mortgages.

The cable news networks took it from there. Fox News, after running more than 100 promos about its coverage of the event, which did a pretty effective job of marketing them at the same time, had wall-to-wall coverage on the anointed day and dispatched four of its leading hosts around the country to perform a kind of hybrid task, covering events that they also seemed to be leading.

And in the increasingly politicized environment between the covered and coverers, Susan Roesgen of CNN, covering a tax protest in Chicago, could not have been more contemptuous of the people she was interviewing, shaking her finger at them and shouting them down. In a move that I?m sure freaked out her bosses, she suggested that the protests were ?antigovernment, anti-CNN.?

Rachel Maddow of MSNBC frantically belittled the rhetoric and motives of those involved in the tea party events, even as she spent oodles of air time on the rallies.

Cable news stations have been criticized for ?event-izing? all manner of minor news occurrences ? President Obama?s first news conference comes to mind. But the Tax Day Tea Party was all but conceived, executed and deconstructed in the hothouse of cable news wars.

It used to be that cable networks would dispatch reporters to the same event and then head back to the studio where shouters from various sides would have it out. Now, in a kind of Hearstian twist, the news media are supplying both the pictures and the war.

?Bring your kids and experience history,? Glenn Beck advised on Fox News as he invited people to join him at the Alamo for a tax day protest, because, he said, ?our kids are being sold into slavery.?

It was a kind of al fresco Howard Beale moment, an opportunity to gather in a group and shout about very real rage ? these are scary times for all working people ? that is nonetheless inchoate and unnameable. The burden being placed on the American economy and future generations is a significant issue ? according to fivethirtyeight.com, more than 300,000 people attended rallies in 346 cities ? but the event that gave voice to those concerns was far from spontaneous.

The numbers that drove the fervor are not the kind that appear on a 1040 form. Last Wednesday night from 8 p.m. to 11 p.m., Fox News had an average of almost 3.4 million viewers, up more than a million compared with its average in March. MSNBC got a bump as well, with 250,000 more viewers, while CNN was only slightly up.

In a sense, we seem to be returning to the days of the party press, where news outlets reflected viewpoints of specific wings of political thought. So perhaps the invocation of an event that took place in 1773 is not that far off the mark.

Even if the historic message of no taxation absent representation doesn?t really scan because the current president won election decisively in a free and open election, the Tea Act that drew the scorn of colonials was, at bottom, a bailout of the East India Company, which was close to bankruptcy after huge misadventures in India. With bankers thumbing rolls of federal billions, the homage to the original Boston Tea Party was not quite a non sequitur.

?The original tea party was something of a media event,? said Robert J. Allison, professor and chair of the history department at Suffolk University and author of ?The Boston Tea Party.? ?The papers at the time were very politicized and did a lot of campaigning during the run-up to the event.?

He added: ?When you think about it, they could have done worse than a bag of tea in terms of symbols. As a historian, I am charmed and fascinated that something that provoked the original revolution still has such resonance.?

The tea references are not the problem. When a media company sets itself as the party of opposition, it can have unforeseen consequences. The theatrics make it hard to tell where talk of secession ? the governor of Texas made a veiled threat ? states? rights and stringing up public officials transforms from hyperbole to reality.

The president was likened to Hitler on various posters at rallies, and a sign in Lafayette Park read, ?Stand Idle While Some Kenyan Destroys America? I Don?t Think So.?

The Fox Business reporter Cody Willard got in the spirit of things covering a Boston rally by suggesting that conservatives and liberals were ?both fascists who are taking my money and building up corporate America with my welfare.?

You have to worry whether something that was intended to goose ratings and kick up debate could metastasize when it meets some of the baser urges of the fringe, among people who don?t come out to rallies but are sitting in a basement steeped in their own misanthropy.

?Together, they will draw a line in the sand, here, where it was originally drawn, live, at the Alamo,? Mr. Beck said as Ted Nugent served up tasty guitar fills. Then Mr. Beck inveighed against Washington, the media, Democrats, Republicans, politicians ? you know, everyone who was not standing there at the Alamo.

It had all the earmarks of a stump speech, replete with soaring applause lines and calls to action. But let?s remember: the only thing Mr. Beck and the rest are running for is first[/i]

I immediately dismiss anything off a news organization or program that I don’t like. That’s why I completely dismiss fox news…

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I immediately dismiss anything off a news organization or program that I don’t like. That’s why I completely dismiss fox news…[/quote]

I hope you do the same for CNN which is basically the liberal equivalent of Fox. I would say that Fox is a little more fair than CNN though.

In studys Fox always comes out a little more conservative but during the 2008 elections Fox news reported both good and bad things about both candidates while CNN and the like reported nearly 80% favorable news for obama.

Media impartiality is pretty much a thing of the past.