Tbol/Anavar Cycle

Pharma
1

26
5.9"
166 lbs

Goal: Lean muscle not too big… gain 5-8 lbs… athletic look. Do not want to compete ever. Just want to cut fat and build me some lean muscle mass.
Past cycle: Anavar cycle(28 days)… stopped it, because anavar was fake… Did not need PCT for fake anavar but yet did 1 week PCT 20mg nolva ED.
Why not test: Wife Issues…
Why Anavar again: Got a good trusted source…
Lifting Exp: 3.5 years… started as a 220 pounder fat fuck… lost 50-55 lbs and now bulking ever since… gained fat…
Workout History: Started with full body for a year, then did strength training for almost a year, now doing a PPL type split.

Diet: Eat pretty clean most of the time… major foods, oats, brown rice, sweet potatoes chicken, yogurt, whey etc etc. will be eating 300-400 cals over maintainance, protein 1.5g/lb, fat 0.5g/lb, rest carbs
Supplements: Caffeine(PW), Creatine Mono, Whey, D3.
My Current Lifts
Bench 225
Squat 305
Deadlift 315

Now for the cycle, not 100% sure about it… know at this dosage TBOL could be a bit suppressive so i was just wondering if my PCT is enough to get my test levels back to normal.
TBOL/ANAVAR… Or run them solo? JUST SOME ADVICE GUYS…

cycle
Week 1-5 60mg TBOL
Week 6-10 40mg ANAVAR
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva

OR
Week 1-6 60mg TBOL+40mg ANAVAR
PCT
40/40/20/40 nolva

OR
Run TBOL only and ANAVAR only?

Liv 52 for liver Support (3-4 tabs), Maybe Taurine for back pumps.
Do i need proviron?
Any more liver Support… n2guard and stuff is not available in INDIA… So theres that.

2

I don’t see the point of using steroids for your goals.

3

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I don’t see the point of using steroids for your goals.[/quote]

I think my goal of gaining a few pounds of LBM is good for me… in future i might think of gaining 15-20 on test… but right now im happy with this…

4

In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.

5

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I don’t see the point of using steroids for your goals.[/quote]

I think my goal of gaining a few pounds of LBM is good for me…[/quote]

You don’t need steroids(orals or test) to do this at your bodyweight.

6

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I don’t see the point of using steroids for your goals.[/quote]

I think my goal of gaining a few pounds of LBM is good for me…[/quote]

You don’t need steroids(orals or test) to do this at your bodyweight.
[/quote]

+1.

Eat more, get a good program, and lastly but the most important, work harder. That can’t be emphasized enough.

7

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?

8

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?
[/quote]

Why is eating more and working out harder with a good program that abhorable to you vs. doing a double oral-only cycle?

In your case, why risk the health of your liver doing a half-assed, no injection oral-only steroid cycle when simply eating better/more and working out harder will get you the same or not better results? This oral “shortcut” is not a wise choice.

9

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?
[/quote]

OKAY!!!

10

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?
[/quote]

Why is eating more and working out harder with a good program that abhorable to you vs. doing a double oral-only cycle?

In your case, why risk the health of your liver doing a half-assed, no injection oral-only steroid cycle when simply eating better/more and working out harder will get you the same or not better results? This oral “shortcut” is not a wise choice. [/quote]

Thats exacty why i asked can i ruun this together? or whether i should run it solo…

11

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?
[/quote]

Why is eating more and working out harder with a good program that abhorable to you vs. doing a double oral-only cycle?

In your case, why risk the health of your liver doing a half-assed, no injection oral-only steroid cycle when simply eating better/more and working out harder will get you the same or not better results? This oral “shortcut” is not a wise choice. [/quote]

Thats exacty why i asked can i ruun this together? or whether i should run it solo…[/quote]

He is telling you to run NOTHING. No drugs. No orals.

5-8lbs of lbm = NO NEED DRUGS @166lbs bodyweight

Not worth it.

Just eat good and work hard.

I will give you a very simple example of what can go wrong. If you are given winstrol instead of anavar, you can tank your estrogen. You will have no sex drive. Then you will have a rebound during or after PCT. What do you do?

12

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
In case you hadn’t heard, oral only cycles are practically worthless. You will gain some strength from the var and some size from the tbol, but after coming off you will lose most (if not all) of the size since it is basically fluid gain - not water weight, I’m forgetting the terminology for intercellular fluid in the muscle (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?). If you are lucky, you might end up a couple pounds (not 5-8) up of lbm after you come off and it all clears your system.

HOWEVER…

Since you are most likely going to do this anyway, I would recommend lowering the tbol to 40mg/day and up the var dosage if you have enough (haven’t used var personally, but everything I’ve read guys seem to get better results at 50-60mg). I would also run them together, and be ready for some serious lower back pumps (I’ve used tbol a few times and got the pumps every time). Stock up on taurine, 3-5 grams 30+ minutes before lifting (on days where the lower back will be stressed even secondarily) to help mitigate. At higher doses of tbol, taurine didn’t even touch it for me. Painful to the point of thinking I had strained something.[/quote]

Thats exactly how much i want to gain… Im pretty sure with good diet and a proper PCT i’ll be able to retain 6-8 lbs… Ive read and heard two orals would be too taxing on the liver, but i guess i’ll give it a go
Week1-6 40mg TBOL+50mg
PCT
40/40/20/20 nolva
Supps
Taurine, creatine, multi, d3.
OKAY?
[/quote]

Why is eating more and working out harder with a good program that abhorable to you vs. doing a double oral-only cycle?

In your case, why risk the health of your liver doing a half-assed, no injection oral-only steroid cycle when simply eating better/more and working out harder will get you the same or not better results? This oral “shortcut” is not a wise choice. [/quote]

Thats exacty why i asked can i ruun this together? or whether i should run it solo…[/quote]

He is telling you to run NOTHING. No drugs. No orals.

5-8lbs of lbm = NO NEED DRUGS @166lbs bodyweight

Not worth it.

Just eat good and work hard.

I will give you a very simple example of what can go wrong. If you are given winstrol instead of anavar, you can tank your estrogen. You will have no sex drive. Then you will have a rebound during or after PCT. What do you do?[/quote]

I eat good and i work hard too, i know the anavar ill be getting is ANAVAR… and im aiming for 5-8 because i guess thats keepable from this cycle… would love it if i end up gaining a little more than this…

13

Oh well, just so you know…

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.84.8.5923

14

Like I said (and you somehow missed), you would be lucky to keep a couple (as in 1-2 pounds) of lbm, NOT 5-8. Your total weight gain during cycle will probably be less than 10 lbs unless you eat like a horse - and then good luck on lean mass only.

You’ve been told multiple times and won’t listen – you can do this with a good diet and smart/hard training. AAS is not a magic pill. At 5’9", adding weight to 166 should not be hard. You either aren’t training hard enough (forget overtraining, extremely few people actually reach this stage no matter how XTREME HARDCORE your cookie cutter program is), aren’t eating enough (or aren’t eating right), or aren’t recovering properly. That means sleep, a solid 8+ hours of it, plus short naps when/if you can squeeze them in.

If you aren’t making progress right now, I guarantee if you fix the above three you will see something. Hell, maybe it’s time to change programs. I don’t believe in training ADD, but even Thibs advocates changing programs periodically. Throwing pills down your throat won’t magically make things better, you still have to train properly and eat for the weight you want to gain and maintain. If you haven’t outlined a change in your training and diet plan for this “cycle”, then you definitely shouldn’t be using anything, let alone a double-oral-only.

Figure out the things you would do to up the intensity during a cycle, and then go ahead and do them natural. I bet you’ll be surprised, assuming you give them the old college try for a good 4-6 weeks.

15

[quote]boatguy wrote:
Like I said (and you somehow missed), you would be lucky to keep a couple (as in 1-2 pounds) of lbm, NOT 5-8. Your total weight gain during cycle will probably be less than 10 lbs unless you eat like a horse - and then good luck on lean mass only.

You’ve been told multiple times and won’t listen – you can do this with a good diet and smart/hard training. AAS is not a magic pill. At 5’9", adding weight to 166 should not be hard. You either aren’t training hard enough (forget overtraining, extremely few people actually reach this stage no matter how XTREME HARDCORE your cookie cutter program is), aren’t eating enough (or aren’t eating right), or aren’t recovering properly. That means sleep, a solid 8+ hours of it, plus short naps when/if you can squeeze them in.

If you aren’t making progress right now, I guarantee if you fix the above three you will see something. Hell, maybe it’s time to change programs. I don’t believe in training ADD, but even Thibs advocates changing programs periodically. Throwing pills down your throat won’t magically make things better, you still have to train properly and eat for the weight you want to gain and maintain. If you haven’t outlined a change in your training and diet plan for this “cycle”, then you definitely shouldn’t be using anything, let alone a double-oral-only.

Figure out the things you would do to up the intensity during a cycle, and then go ahead and do them natural. I bet you’ll be surprised, assuming you give them the old college try for a good 4-6 weeks.[/quote]

I’ll just gain a few pounds naturally and then maybe what i had planned

Week1-12 TEST E 500mg, 250mg MONDAY AND THURSDAY
HCG @500iu/week Monday and Thursday

Arimidex .25mg EOD starting day 2 of my cycle (Maybe .50mg)

Wait 2 weeks (Continue HCG/Arimidex during this period)
Week 15: 75mg clomid ED & 40mg novladex ED
Week 16-18: 50mg clomid & 20mg novladex

600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily. (for liver damage)
Maybe Nizoral 2% for hairloss

Can anyone tell me about needles, or just post a link.

16

[quote]Ajinkyaa wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
Like I said (and you somehow missed), you would be lucky to keep a couple (as in 1-2 pounds) of lbm, NOT 5-8. Your total weight gain during cycle will probably be less than 10 lbs unless you eat like a horse - and then good luck on lean mass only.

You’ve been told multiple times and won’t listen – you can do this with a good diet and smart/hard training. AAS is not a magic pill. At 5’9", adding weight to 166 should not be hard. You either aren’t training hard enough (forget overtraining, extremely few people actually reach this stage no matter how XTREME HARDCORE your cookie cutter program is), aren’t eating enough (or aren’t eating right), or aren’t recovering properly. That means sleep, a solid 8+ hours of it, plus short naps when/if you can squeeze them in.

If you aren’t making progress right now, I guarantee if you fix the above three you will see something. Hell, maybe it’s time to change programs. I don’t believe in training ADD, but even Thibs advocates changing programs periodically. Throwing pills down your throat won’t magically make things better, you still have to train properly and eat for the weight you want to gain and maintain. If you haven’t outlined a change in your training and diet plan for this “cycle”, then you definitely shouldn’t be using anything, let alone a double-oral-only.

Figure out the things you would do to up the intensity during a cycle, and then go ahead and do them natural. I bet you’ll be surprised, assuming you give them the old college try for a good 4-6 weeks.[/quote]

I’ll just gain a few pounds naturally and then maybe what i had planned

Week1-12 TEST E 500mg, 250mg MONDAY AND THURSDAY
HCG @500iu/week Monday and Thursday

Arimidex .25mg EOD starting day 2 of my cycle (Maybe .50mg)

Wait 2 weeks (Continue HCG/Arimidex during this period)
Week 15: 75mg clomid ED & 40mg novladex ED
Week 16-18: 50mg clomid & 20mg novladex

600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily. (for liver damage)
Maybe Nizoral 2% for hairloss

Can anyone tell me about needles, or just post a link.

[/quote]

Needles are usually sharp and made out of metal. Go fish.

17

If you inject T twice a week, take anastrozole at time of injection to maintain a balance of the competitive drug anastrozole with serum T levels. EOD will not be as effective in this case. [Many TRT guys do T and anastrozole EOD.]

PCT is sort of typical shit, but wrong.

Read this and try again:

18

You guys should have abandoned this thread a long time ago. The OP clearly isn’t listening. He’s gonna do what he wants to do.