Tasered For Speaking

Off Topic
61

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ghost22 wrote:
I’m not too keen on ANYONE laying their hands on me in an unjust fashion. Cops or not.

Yeah he was a jackass and playing to the cameras. He didn’t need to be tasered on the ground. But a tasering isn’t gonna kill anybody. It’s a great non-lethal response.

But for them to escort him out because he asked a controversial question is the kind of tactic that the makes me more and more fearful of my government.

I expect this kind of thing at some political rallies, but not at an “open” forum on a college campus.

What was unjust about it? He was refusing to leave the stage. He was usurping everyone else’s right to ask questions. Why does he have the right to hijack the event?

He had no right to do so and the actions of security and law enforcement were correct. He had the opportunity to comply when asked to leave the stage. He chose not to do so. He escalated the situation and he had to be dealt with according to his own actions.

He should have acted justly, asked the question and then let the next person have their turn.

[/quote]

He gave context, asked three question, said “thank you” (about 1 min 30 sec into the video) and then started stepping away from the mic, which is when he was grabbed. It was ridiculous. His last question was stupid and he rambled a bit with his background but I would’ve liked to hear Kerry’s response to the first two, and being inarticulate isn’t grounds for arrest. Kerry obviously was willing to respond to the guy, and he’d already finished talking, so what reason did they have to drag him away?

And inciting a riot? Aside from the how placid that crowd was, of what he said what could be construed as inciting a riot? The guy’s anger seemed mostly at Kerry’s inaction to me, but maybe that’s because I have no idea what the secret society is meant to be about.

62

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ghost22 wrote:
I’m not too keen on ANYONE laying their hands on me in an unjust fashion. Cops or not.

What was unjust about it? He was refusing to leave the stage. He was usurping everyone else’s right to ask questions. Why does he have the right to hijack the event?

[/quote]

Obviously he refused to leave, but it appeared on the video they didn’t even give him time to leave after being asked. They sort of just grabbed him. I would not have responded well to be grabbed.

Asking him to leave in the first place seems out of place being that it seemed to be an open forum.

63

In actuality the police were summoned by the students who organized the event to have Meyer removed. Once police tried to remove Meyer from the location he became disruptive by flailing his arms, yelling and pulling away from them. This alone constitutes obstruction, hindering the police from performing their lawful duties which is a criminal charge. Refusing to comply to be handcuffed constitutes resisting arrest.

Many times suspects refuse to be handcuffed because they question why they’re being arrested. That is for a court to determine, not a perpetrator, so they resist the efforts. Hence the use of the taser, which is a non lethal use of force. Could the police have manhandled Meyer and roughly tried to handcuff him possibly causing an injury? Sure but then there would be an uproar over that as well. The taser is not the heinous piece of equipment it’s made out to be.

It’s use assures that neither the officer(s) or suspect(s) receive lethal injuries. And any death of a subject who has been tasered has never been caused by the taser itself. Subjects were either on drugs or alcohol which caused excited delirium.

The state of Florida has a Use of Force Matrix that governs officers what levels of force to use for comparable force. The taser can be used for active resistance which is the same level for OC. (pepper spray)

This is not about freedom of speech. Meyer became disruptive and violated the law. His motivation seems to be for his own selfishness. Police say Meyer has a website where he has videos of himself playing practical jokes. He also had a friend videotaping his “appearance” which was featured on his site. Poor innocent student?

64

[quote]blueknight wrote:
In actuality the police were summoned by the students who organized the event to have Meyer removed. Once police tried to remove Meyer from the location he became disruptive by flailing his arms, yelling and pulling away from them. This alone constitutes obstruction, hindering the police from performing their lawful duties which is a criminal charge. Refusing to comply to be handcuffed constitutes resisting arrest.

Many times suspects refuse to be handcuffed because they question why they’re being arrested. That is for a court to determine, not a perpetrator, so they resist the efforts. Hence the use of the taser, which is a non lethal use of force. Could the police have manhandled Meyer and roughly tried to handcuff him possibly causing an injury? Sure but then there would be an uproar over that as well. The taser is not the heinous piece of equipment it’s made out to be.

It’s use assures that neither the officer(s) or suspect(s) receive lethal injuries. And any death of a subject who has been tasered has never been caused by the taser itself. Subjects were either on drugs or alcohol which caused excited delirium.

The state of Florida has a Use of Force Matrix that governs officers what levels of force to use for comparable force. The taser can be used for active resistance which is the same level for OC. (pepper spray)

This is not about freedom of speech. Meyer became disruptive and violated the law. His motivation seems to be for his own selfishness. Police say Meyer has a website where he has videos of himself playing practical jokes. He also had a friend videotaping his “appearance” which was featured on his site. Poor innocent student?[/quote]

QFT

65

[quote]USNS physique wrote:

Couldn’t of said it better. The second video clearly shows him resisting the 2 cops who tried to escort him out. I’m just taking a guess here, but when 2 trained police officers are having trouble holding on to 1 guy, he’s putting up a quite a struggle. So instead of beating him down (like they would do in many other countries) they just taser him.<<

Your argument is invalid because the arrest was bad. They had no grounds because the man was not a threat and presented no threat. Simple telling a citizen to stop talking or sit down is not within a police officer’s authority. It’s a clear violation of his 1st amendment rights of free speech and freedom of assembly.

They can’t charge him with disorderly because the cops instigated it- and clearly did so- and the charge of resisting with violence canot stand because the arrest was invalid due to lack of a valid reason to place him in custodial detention. What you saw initially is what is termed a ‘mere encounter’, and no citizen has a duty to comply with any command from any cop if that citizen is not under investigative or custodial detention…which requires probable cause, of which there was none.

This was a civil rights violation and the county will pay out big time.[/quote]

You seriously come up with some 1/2 brained posts. The ones you posted about building up your upper chest were dumb enough but now this? Damn man do you think before you write anything?

You don’t have to be a threat to be arrested (example you piss on a tree in public, yup you get arrested). Not too mention they were trying to escort him out for not following the rules of the debate, he was arrested once he starting fighting with the police.

66

Well I think this pretty much kills the debate:

"GAINESVILLE, Fla. �?? Video of police Tasering a persistent questioner of Sen. John Kerry became an Internet and TV sensation Tuesday, generating fierce debate about free speech and the motives of the college student involved �?? a known prankster who often posts practical jokes online.

Meanwhile, the student, 21-year-old Andrew Meyer, reportedly told police who were driving him to a local jail: “I am not mad at you guys, you didn’t do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job.”

"

67

First, I agree that he was a jackass.

Second, he had an agenda and knew what he was doing.

Third, he is a media whore and wanted the attention.

Fourth, he deserved the tasering for not listening and following protocol. Besides, it’s a non-lethal way to handle the situation. I’d rather be tasered than hit repeatedly by a police baton. Could it have been handled differently? Probably. But he refused to leave and pushed and kicked the police officers.

The University of Florida is looking into the incident and posted this in an email this morning:

[i]To students, faculty, staff, alumni and friends:

I have received a great deal of communication and input last night and this morning regarding the incident that occurred Monday at the conclusion of a town hall forum being held by Sen. John Kerry. The incident resulted in a student being tasered.

We are interested in learning what happened and are taking the following immediate steps to ensure the university utilizes best practice protocols:

University of Florida Police Chief Linda Stump has requested the Florida Department of Law Enforcement conduct a formal investigation into the arrest of UF student Andrew Meyer. An independent review such as this will make sure the results are objective and impartial. Chief Stump�??s priority is to ensure that the public remains confident in the department�??s ability to keep the campus safe.

Two officers involved in the incident have been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

We plan to assemble a panel of faculty and students to review our police protocols, our management practices and the FDLE report to come up with a series of recommendations for the university.

Administrators and police officials plan to analyze the incident and conduct an internal review and will consider changing protocols in response to this incident, if necessary.

Finally, as is standard procedure, the State Attorney�??s Office will review the charges brought against Mr. Meyer. We have communicated with the State Attorney and understand he plans to expedite his review.

I will talk about the incident and answer questions at a news conference scheduled for 2 p.m. in Emerson Alumni Hall.

J. Bernard Machen[/i]

68

This is what they should have used.

69

Oh yeah…GO GATORS!

70

Ha ha. Come on toshi, don’t fall into the trap, I’m just fucking with you. Did you read the blog posts under the video? It’s a play-up dude. If I wanted to be taken seriously would I not have capitalized shit? Stress wil make your poops runny.

-chris

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Avocado wrote:
wow, I wish i were surprised that so many people support the suppression of human rights. No matter how stupid the question you should support his right to speak it. It’s not about what he says it’s about what happened to him for saying it. If you support that then you are just like the people in germany that thought hitler’s regime was cool.

It’s tragically ironic that people always ask “How could those germans have let such a monster do what he did?” when a comparable situation is happening right now. Those germans bought into the media they were being shown just as many people buy into the same type of media right now. Hitler’s scapegoat was the jews. Who is Bush’s scapegoat? terrorist’s of course. Concentration camp = Guantanamo.

The styme of critical thinking was as prevalent in 1939 as it is now in 2007 north America.

-chris

Yeah, we Americans are all being fitted for brown shirts right now. You Canadians better watch out, because I think Gordon Brown is signing a treaty with Bush right now that gives the U.S. clearance to invade Canada.

Are you really so thick as to believe in those comparisons you made? Holy fucking brain-deadness Batman!

DB[/quote]

71

That was one shakey recording!
Wish i didn’t get sea sick from watching it so i could have stuck around long enough to see the main event, but unfortunatly i got the distinct impression that the guy recording it was wanking as he filmed.

I wonder if thats what the 7 dawarves would sing if they were the camera men on a midget porn film.

Sorry what were we talking about again?

72

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
This is what they should have used.[/quote]

Damn! Where can I get one of those!!???

That bull was pissed! LOL!

73

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

The scene was his intention from the beginning. I agree that the cops handled the situation poorly. Obvioulsy no one could reason with the kid, because he wanted to escalate the situation, but they should have just grabbed the kid and shoved him out the door. Taseing him infront of the crowd is about the worst thing they could have done.[/quote]

A good solid truncheoning is always good television but why break a sweat when you have a taser? Seriously, though, does no one think of small joint manipulation? A good thumb compression and the guy would be instantly compliant and there is nothing to see as he walks very quickly to the door with the controlling officer behind him.

74

[quote]USNS physique wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I wish I could see the video. Some people need to be tasered. I have no idea if this guy was one of them but based on CrewPierces description he may have deserved it.

He did, like CP said, for general jackassery.

I <3 how people twist things and try to make it sound like he quietly asked a question and was assaulted for it.

Go google the U.S. Constitution and cite me the section where it says you must show no emotion, nor ask in frustration and with haste because of the distinct possibility that you will be cut off before you get your questions out. Please, find that section where it also details tonal and volume requirements for questions posed to public officials.

I’ll be waiting for those citatons, and while you are at it, read the 1st amendment a few times and tell me how much that right is worth if when you exercise it you are stopped and removed…thereby your right is circumvented indirectly.

The cops will say that he resisted arrest,and you cannot legally resist an arrest even if its unlawful- so be it. But, you can sue their fat asses off in civil court, and for false arrest, and for violating his 8th amendment rights. They will have to fire these idiot cops just to save face.

It was a shameful response by a bunch of stupid cops.[/quote]

The first ammendment prevents the government from prohibiting your right to speak freely. It does not mention a private gathering, your family, teachers or employer telling you what you can or cannot say while in their facilty, home, school or place of employment or giving you such a forum in which to do so.

If you fight with the cops you should expect to get your ass kicked. That is just common sense. They gave him the option of just leaving. He chose poorly.

Should have tasered him agains for screeching like a teenage girl when he got zapped.

75

[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:

The scene was his intention from the beginning. I agree that the cops handled the situation poorly. Obvioulsy no one could reason with the kid, because he wanted to escalate the situation, but they should have just grabbed the kid and shoved him out the door. Taseing him infront of the crowd is about the worst thing they could have done.

A good solid truncheoning is always good television but why break a sweat when you have a taser? Seriously, though, does no one think of small joint manipulation? A good thumb compression and the guy would be instantly compliant and there is nothing to see as he walks very quickly to the door with the controlling officer behind him.[/quote]

I think this would have been a good tactic.

However why wrestle with this punk and possibly fuck yourself up, as well as him, when you can use a non-lethal weapon and the perpetrator is the only one feeling the pain, for just a few minutes.

76

[quote]blueknight wrote:
In actuality the police were summoned by the students who organized the event to have Meyer removed. Once police tried to remove Meyer from the location he became disruptive by flailing his arms, yelling and pulling away from them. This alone constitutes obstruction, hindering the police from performing their lawful duties which is a criminal charge. Refusing to comply to be handcuffed constitutes resisting arrest.

Many times suspects refuse to be handcuffed because they question why they’re being arrested. That is for a court to determine, not a perpetrator, so they resist the efforts. Hence the use of the taser, which is a non lethal use of force. Could the police have manhandled Meyer and roughly tried to handcuff him possibly causing an injury? Sure but then there would be an uproar over that as well. The taser is not the heinous piece of equipment it’s made out to be.

It’s use assures that neither the officer(s) or suspect(s) receive lethal injuries. And any death of a subject who has been tasered has never been caused by the taser itself. Subjects were either on drugs or alcohol which caused excited delirium.

The state of Florida has a Use of Force Matrix that governs officers what levels of force to use for comparable force. The taser can be used for active resistance which is the same level for OC. (pepper spray)

This is not about freedom of speech. Meyer became disruptive and violated the law. His motivation seems to be for his own selfishness. Police say Meyer has a website where he has videos of himself playing practical jokes. He also had a friend videotaping his “appearance” which was featured on his site. Poor innocent student?[/quote]

Very well said. I would almost suspect you were in law enforcement.

77

[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:

The scene was his intention from the beginning. I agree that the cops handled the situation poorly. Obvioulsy no one could reason with the kid, because he wanted to escalate the situation, but they should have just grabbed the kid and shoved him out the door. Taseing him infront of the crowd is about the worst thing they could have done.

A good solid truncheoning is always good television but why break a sweat when you have a taser? Seriously, though, does no one think of small joint manipulation? A good thumb compression and the guy would be instantly compliant and there is nothing to see as he walks very quickly to the door with the controlling officer behind him.[/quote]

These officers, or any officers, should not have to risk unnecessary injury in order to gain compliance from an unruly individual. The number of officers present is regardless. You can see how other students began to react and could even hear another officer telling other students to get back.

They used the least amount of force necessary to effect the arrest according to the situation. The guy didn’t receive long term damage and was still spouting after the tasing. Obviously no longer in pain. There could have been more chance of injury to both the officers and suspect if physical control methods were used.

78

The title of this thread is biased bullshit.

79

So one hippie got tased, for disrespecting another hippie, who was speaking to a bunch of hippies at a hippie school, and all the other hippies are crying about it now? Do I pretty much have the gist of the story?

It’s amazing to me the lengths liberals will go to in order to make everything a violation of rights. The kid broke the rules, was asked to sit down/leave, and he didn’t. The police began escorting him out, and he resisted, at which time he was placed under arrest and continued resisting, thus the taser.

My only question is: what took so long with the taser? Was the retention holster working too good?

LOL at anyone who would seriously go to a Kerry speech of their own free will…hey, wait, maybe he got tased because he realised he was an idiot for going to the speech in the first place, and was trying to leave. Then somebody edited the video to make it look like a Free Speech violation. And LOL at the paranoid conspiracy types who are spouting about the Skull and Bones question. Yeah, your local FL cops are ‘in the know’, and wanted to shut him up before they had to call the black helicopters and Secret Police units in. It was obvious from the beginning that he was up there to act the fool.

80

[quote]blueknight wrote:

It’s use assures that neither the officer(s) or suspect(s) receive lethal injuries. And any death of a subject who has been tasered has never been caused by the taser itself. Subjects were either on drugs or alcohol which caused excited delirium.[/quote]

Bullshit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/earlyshow/main648859.shtml

Numerous deaths have been attributed to the taser when the individual was neither high on drugs or alcohol. It’s less lethal than a firearm, but definitely without a doubt, still lethal.

Anyway, Kerry should have nutted up and told the student to ask his questions in a timely manner and he would answer them. He could have calmed the situation. After that if the student was still resisting or causing a ruckus, just throw him out of the hall and bar him from re entering. Is a taser and arrest really necessary?