Tango: Why So Serious?

Off Topic
21

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
WARNING: BLOCK OF TEXT AHEAD

I was curious if any of you here are seriously into tango, and or know anyone who is, and can explain the bizarre obsession it creates here in the United States.

I’ll start by saying I’m part Argentine, I now live down the street from my grandma, who is all Argentine, so we’ve had long talks about the obsessive nature of American Tenguiristas/os or whatever the fuck they call themselves. We both think it’s ridicules.

While in Argentina many people tango, it’s not an all consuming, snobby activity where the “dance” goes beyond the dance floor. It’s a way people dance when they go out… the same way if you find yourself listening to country and know how to two-step you might, or a swing/blues song comes on at the bar, you might dance with your date. But it’s not a life consuming obsession like it is here.

My mom is one of the obsessed: her friends, money, boyfriend, time, all revolve around maximizing tango time, and being seen at/with the appropriate tango people at the appropriate tango locations. I think it’s crazy. But they are not alone. The internets have allowed them to become part of this greater obsession, and now they all have hundreds of facebook/tango “event” friends all over the country who are just as obsessive.

…but if you think such a large community means that there’s room for you, think again. Don’t even think about showing up at a milonga if you are “confident” in your tango skills: these are not events at which to learn, or build confidence in the dance. These are events for your tango click to show up the other click, and for those who haven’t yet invested in thirty pairs of tango shoes, to respectfully sit to the side and admire these “artists” or dance.

Better learn the rules first too: http://www.close-embrace.com/invitingetiquette.html

look at this shit.

Now what I’ve recently found more disturbing is that it’s not just my Mom’s generation taking up the dance and this attitude, but I’m actually regularly running into hotties my age who are just as snobby and obsessive about it.

What gives? Seriously? Any of you dealing with friends/family and this obsession? The local free-rag actually did a story on how un-welcome the tangoistos were to him when he went to check out a local milonga, and since then it’s been non-stop letters to the editor, mostly from tango apologists. What is this? Is it simply Americans doing what Americans do, and finding something foreigny and engaging in it to the point of obsession in an attempt to seem “not-white” and eclectic: taking it to the extreme. What am I missing?[/quote]

Look: you nailed it with the americans trying to find something non white and obsessing about it.

But there are crazies in every culture. I’m proud of my american culture. The good parts not the bad.[/quote]
You mean non-American not non-white right?

22

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yeah, but there’s maybe only a 10:8 ratio of women to men.

Men are becoming weird about it in the same way too.

[quote]clockworkchad wrote:
where in the US are you?

Im assuming your mom is Latina - which really explains everything. they seem to spend all of their time and money making sure that everyone around them knows that they think they are better than them. Im in new england, its not a problem here that i know of. hotties your age are most likely latina as well, and i advise you not to date them if you can help it. they are crazy. [/quote]

Is my mom Latina? Who the fuck knows. I don’t really know what that means anymore.

We’re from Argentina (her side of the family), but Argentine isn’t an ethnicity, and before my family crossed the Atlantic they were Spanish, Italian and Swedish… we’re not meztiso, so some of your Latin-American friends from further North don’t consider us “real” Latin Americans… who knows, that’s a different conversation. She’d say she’s Latina.[/quote]

Don’t worry, to tell you the truth if you are Spanish and Italian you are the real Latins, the ones that came from the Roman Empire, not these Hispanics.[/quote]

WTF is Hispanic anyways? I’m from Colombia with mostly Spanish roots. When I meet people for the first time my country of origin comes up often in conversations. I have a slight accent when speaking English. I tell them I’m from Colombia and they go “I thought you were white” , I don’t know what being Colombian has to do with being white/black/mestizo.[/quote]

hispanic is supposed to mean spanish speaking. Its a stupid made up term.

Our white and your white are slightly different things. I’ve studied race and identity in South America and the Carribbean (I had to for my spanish major). It just goes to show you that race is a very ambiguous thing and mostly made up to enforce social hierarchies.

23

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
WARNING: BLOCK OF TEXT AHEAD

I was curious if any of you here are seriously into tango, and or know anyone who is, and can explain the bizarre obsession it creates here in the United States.

I’ll start by saying I’m part Argentine, I now live down the street from my grandma, who is all Argentine, so we’ve had long talks about the obsessive nature of American Tenguiristas/os or whatever the fuck they call themselves. We both think it’s ridicules.

While in Argentina many people tango, it’s not an all consuming, snobby activity where the “dance” goes beyond the dance floor. It’s a way people dance when they go out… the same way if you find yourself listening to country and know how to two-step you might, or a swing/blues song comes on at the bar, you might dance with your date. But it’s not a life consuming obsession like it is here.

My mom is one of the obsessed: her friends, money, boyfriend, time, all revolve around maximizing tango time, and being seen at/with the appropriate tango people at the appropriate tango locations. I think it’s crazy. But they are not alone. The internets have allowed them to become part of this greater obsession, and now they all have hundreds of facebook/tango “event” friends all over the country who are just as obsessive.

…but if you think such a large community means that there’s room for you, think again. Don’t even think about showing up at a milonga if you are “confident” in your tango skills: these are not events at which to learn, or build confidence in the dance. These are events for your tango click to show up the other click, and for those who haven’t yet invested in thirty pairs of tango shoes, to respectfully sit to the side and admire these “artists” or dance.

Better learn the rules first too: http://www.close-embrace.com/invitingetiquette.html

look at this shit.

Now what I’ve recently found more disturbing is that it’s not just my Mom’s generation taking up the dance and this attitude, but I’m actually regularly running into hotties my age who are just as snobby and obsessive about it.

What gives? Seriously? Any of you dealing with friends/family and this obsession? The local free-rag actually did a story on how un-welcome the tangoistos were to him when he went to check out a local milonga, and since then it’s been non-stop letters to the editor, mostly from tango apologists. What is this? Is it simply Americans doing what Americans do, and finding something foreigny and engaging in it to the point of obsession in an attempt to seem “not-white” and eclectic: taking it to the extreme. What am I missing?[/quote]

Look: you nailed it with the americans trying to find something non white and obsessing about it.

But there are crazies in every culture. I’m proud of my american culture. The good parts not the bad.[/quote]
You mean non-American not non-white right?[/quote]

I dont know. Exotic. Yeah, non-american.

24

I’ve also heard that Argentine women have the highest therapy bills in the entire world. What say you to this?

25

[quote]Eli B wrote:
I’ve also heard that Argentine women have the highest therapy bills in the entire world. What say you to this?[/quote]
I don’t know BUT I love their accent!

26

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yeah, but there’s maybe only a 10:8 ratio of women to men.

Men are becoming weird about it in the same way too.

[quote]clockworkchad wrote:
where in the US are you?

Im assuming your mom is Latina - which really explains everything. they seem to spend all of their time and money making sure that everyone around them knows that they think they are better than them. Im in new england, its not a problem here that i know of. hotties your age are most likely latina as well, and i advise you not to date them if you can help it. they are crazy. [/quote]

Is my mom Latina? Who the fuck knows. I don’t really know what that means anymore.

We’re from Argentina (her side of the family), but Argentine isn’t an ethnicity, and before my family crossed the Atlantic they were Spanish, Italian and Swedish… we’re not meztiso, so some of your Latin-American friends from further North don’t consider us “real” Latin Americans… who knows, that’s a different conversation. She’d say she’s Latina.[/quote]

Don’t worry, to tell you the truth if you are Spanish and Italian you are the real Latins, the ones that came from the Roman Empire, not these Hispanics.[/quote]

WTF is Hispanic anyways? I’m from Colombia with mostly Spanish roots. When I meet people for the first time my country of origin comes up often in conversations. I have a slight accent when speaking English. I tell them I’m from Colombia and they go “I thought you were white” , I don’t know what being Colombian has to do with being white/black/mestizo.[/quote]

hispanic is supposed to mean spanish speaking. Its a stupid made up term.

Our white and your white are slightly different things. I’ve studied race and identity in South America and the Carribbean (I had to for my spanish major). It just goes to show you that race is a very ambiguous thing and mostly made up to enforce social hierarchies.[/quote]

Hispanic is not supposed to mean Spanish speaking, nice try though.

27

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yeah, but there’s maybe only a 10:8 ratio of women to men.

Men are becoming weird about it in the same way too.

[quote]clockworkchad wrote:
where in the US are you?

Im assuming your mom is Latina - which really explains everything. they seem to spend all of their time and money making sure that everyone around them knows that they think they are better than them. Im in new england, its not a problem here that i know of. hotties your age are most likely latina as well, and i advise you not to date them if you can help it. they are crazy. [/quote]

Is my mom Latina? Who the fuck knows. I don’t really know what that means anymore.

We’re from Argentina (her side of the family), but Argentine isn’t an ethnicity, and before my family crossed the Atlantic they were Spanish, Italian and Swedish… we’re not meztiso, so some of your Latin-American friends from further North don’t consider us “real” Latin Americans… who knows, that’s a different conversation. She’d say she’s Latina.[/quote]

Don’t worry, to tell you the truth if you are Spanish and Italian you are the real Latins, the ones that came from the Roman Empire, not these Hispanics.[/quote]

WTF is Hispanic anyways? I’m from Colombia with mostly Spanish roots. When I meet people for the first time my country of origin comes up often in conversations. I have a slight accent when speaking English. I tell them I’m from Colombia and they go “I thought you were white” , I don’t know what being Colombian has to do with being white/black/mestizo.[/quote]

hispanic is supposed to mean spanish speaking. Its a stupid made up term.

Our white and your white are slightly different things. I’ve studied race and identity in South America and the Carribbean (I had to for my spanish major). It just goes to show you that race is a very ambiguous thing and mostly made up to enforce social hierarchies.[/quote]

Hispanic is not supposed to mean Spanish speaking, nice try though.[/quote]

I think he’s referring to what people in America see as “Hispanic”. Many people in America refer to Hispanics as “spanish people” yet they don’t realize “Spanish” is a nationality which belongs to people from Spain.

28

Um while I don’t agree with a lot of what Eli said Hispanic does mean Spanish speaking usually from a country besides Spain.

His·pan·ic (h-spnk)
adj.

  1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
  2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.
    n.
  3. A Spanish-speaking person.

It has nothing to do with what people in America think Hispanic means, its what Hispanic does mean.

People in America often use Latin and Hispanic interchangeably, they are wrong. Many people don’t even use Latin and will just say Spanish for all people when only people from Spain are Spanish. Hispanic is an all encompassing term usually used for people of Spanish speaking cultures. Why Spanish speaking cultures and not just all of Central America, South America, and Spain? Because not all countries in South America are Hispanic. Brazil is Portugese, though your average American doesn’t know the difference. There is also Guyana, Suriname, and French Guyane which are all French speaking countries in South America.

…
But this has nothing to do with Race or Language. It has to do with people enjoying something from a foreign country. America is a huge country and a lot of things don’t come from here. I don’t know why Eli is trying to single this out. Hockey came from Canada, are you going to say all those crazy Americans that play Hockey need to get over the exoticism of hockey? Didn’t Bodybuilding first start in Prussia (Germany)? Get over it and be happy there are women that like doing things that make them feel sexy, regardless of what country that thing originated in.

29

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I have experienced the same thing in various martial arts that I’ve done; on some rugby teams that I’ve played for; at certain sailing regattas I’ve attended/participated in; at certain rock climbing gyms/clubs that I’ve belonged to; Chess clubs and investing groups; professional associations; etc…

[/quote]

Am I the only one that got stars in his eyes and wood in his shorts reading about AC’s interests?

Call me Man-Crushed. MM AC?

30

I’m Argentinian, i still visit Argentina on the reg, no one in my family dances the tango aside from my grandpops, and even when he does, everyone has a good laugh at his expense. Actually, I don’t know anyone in Argentina that’s into tango, altho I’m certain that the milongas are still chock full of portenos that are. My theory is that its a class thing, and my family are complete elitists and as such prefer other leisure time activities like going to church, complaining about the government and snooping on the neighbors.

Why your mom might be into tango could possibly be b/c she’s trying to keep in touch with her Argie roots. Taking up activities in one’s host country that are typical in one’s native country reinforces cultural ties. I do the same with my ridiculous asados (see hub) and my love of footie. Vamos Argentina Carajo!

Anywho, according to some academics, if you spend 10,000hrs a year doing something you can consider yourself an ‘expert’ in that activity (probably said to validate their nerdy academic endeavors). But with that status comes douchbaggy virtuosity and ‘know it all’ cred. So I guess what i’m saying is, meh, let her have her fun and just indulge her. The tango is hard to master. She deserves it. Plus, dude, Argentinians are so fucking full of themselves (clearly b/c we’re the best), so there’s probably no way to stifle her arrogance anyways.

31

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
I’m Argentinian, i still visit Argentina on the reg, no one in my family dances the tango aside from my grandpops, and even when he does, everyone has a good laugh at his expense. Actually, I don’t know anyone in Argentina that’s into tango, altho I’m certain that the milongas are still chock full of portenos that are. My theory is that its a class thing, and my family are complete elitists and as such prefer other leisure time activities like going to church, complaining about the government and snooping on the neighbors.

Why your mom might be into tango could possibly be b/c she’s trying to keep in touch with her Argie roots. Taking up activities in one’s host country that are typical in one’s native country reinforces cultural ties. I do the same with my ridiculous asados (see hub) and my love of footie. Vamos Argentina Carajo!

Anywho, according to some academics, if you spend 10,000hrs a year doing something you can consider yourself an ‘expert’ in that activity (probably said to validate their nerdy academic endeavors). But with that status comes douchbaggy virtuosity and ‘know it all’ cred. So I guess what i’m saying is, meh, let her have her fun and just indulge her. The tango is hard to master. She deserves it. Plus, dude, Argentinians are so fucking full of themselves (clearly b/c we’re the best), so there’s probably no way to stifle her arrogance anyways.[/quote]

That asado pic makes me soooooooo hungry!!

32

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
I’m Argentinian, i still visit Argentina on the reg, no one in my family dances the tango aside from my grandpops, and even when he does, everyone has a good laugh at his expense. Actually, I don’t know anyone in Argentina that’s into tango, altho I’m certain that the milongas are still chock full of portenos that are. My theory is that its a class thing, and my family are complete elitists and as such prefer other leisure time activities like going to church, complaining about the government and snooping on the neighbors.

Why your mom might be into tango could possibly be b/c she’s trying to keep in touch with her Argie roots. Taking up activities in one’s host country that are typical in one’s native country reinforces cultural ties. I do the same with my ridiculous asados (see hub) and my love of footie. Vamos Argentina Carajo!

Anywho, according to some academics, if you spend 10,000hrs a year doing something you can consider yourself an ‘expert’ in that activity (probably said to validate their nerdy academic endeavors). But with that status comes douchbaggy virtuosity and ‘know it all’ cred. So I guess what i’m saying is, meh, let her have her fun and just indulge her. The tango is hard to master. She deserves it. Plus, dude, Argentinians are so fucking full of themselves (clearly b/c we’re the best), so there’s probably no way to stifle her arrogance anyways.[/quote]

That asado pic makes me soooooooo hungry!![/quote]

X2

I’m not sure if it was the Asado, but Argentinian beef is by far the best beef I have ever had in my life. It was cheap as hell too, you could get a sirloin the size of a brick of cheese for $7 Canadian at a restaraunt.

Is it what they feed the cattle? Spices?

end hijack

33

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]clockworkchad wrote:
where in the US are you?

Im assuming your mom is Latina - which really explains everything. they seem to spend all of their time and money making sure that everyone around them knows that they think they are better than them. Im in new england, its not a problem here that i know of. hotties your age are most likely latina as well, and i advise you not to date them if you can help it. they are crazy. [/quote]

Dude really. Arent all females crazy from one end of the spectrum to the other. [/quote]

In my travels and experience this is the only conclusion I have come to, also. [/quote]

well obviously they are all crazy. that goes beyond saying. finding a sane one is near impossible.

However, that being said, in my experience, it is the latinas’s (including but not limited to puetro rican and costa rican in particular) that usually have a stronger temper than most other girls, with full blooded italian girls a close second.

34

[quote]fraggle wrote:

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
[/quote]

X2

I’m not sure if it was the Asado, but Argentinian beef is by far the best beef I have ever had in my life. It was cheap as hell too, you could get a sirloin the size of a brick of cheese for $7 Canadian at a restaraunt.

Is it what they feed the cattle? Spices?

end hijack [/quote]

Typically we don’t grill meat with spices, just salt and the deliciousness of the fat (I have to ask my butcher to NOT trim the fat). It is indeed all in the beef, and the green grass of the pampas. We also butcher the meat differently (different cuts), which I beleive make the meat more tender, less sinewy.

Argentina is still pretty cheap - there’s been a bit of inflation, but with foreign dollars you can still eat and drink like a king. I recommend everyone take a visit. Its a beautiful country, full of all sorts of weird cultural juxtapositions and the people are very warm, even the thieves. Buenos Aires itself is like the divorcee of a rich banker who has resorted to selling her jewelry in order to maintain her bougie lifestyle. Its so much fun!

35

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
I’m Argentinian…
[/quote]

Yes we truly are the best looking people in the world.

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
…i still visit Argentina on the reg, no one in my family dances the tango aside from my grandpops, and even when he does, everyone has a good laugh at his expense. Actually, I don’t know anyone in Argentina that’s into tango, altho I’m certain that the milongas are still chock full of portenos that are. My theory is that its a class thing, and my family are complete elitists and as such prefer other leisure time activities like going to church, complaining about the government and snooping on the neighbors.[/quote]

That sounds right. My grandma grew up the same way, and is what I’d call an “elitist” and those activities sound familiar.

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
Why your mom might be into tango could possibly be b/c she’s trying to keep in touch with her Argie roots. Taking up activities in one’s host country that are typical in one’s native country reinforces cultural ties. I do the same with my ridiculous asados (see hub) and my love of footie. Vamos Argentina Carajo![/quote]

I think you’ve got it right. She tried being Catholic for awhile, and it didn’t stick. Then came tango. I also imagine she gets a little status boost for being a “real” Argentine amongst a mostly non-Argentine (from what I can tell mostly Anglo-Saxony) group.

36

Your mom sounds hot. I think we all need to see some photos.

37

Ok, so I just got back from living in Buenos Aires for a year and a half and got pretty into Tango while I was down there. The Tango ‘craze’ is definitely not just an American phenomenon. Tourists come from all over the world to dance Tango in Buenos Aires. Swarms come from Europe, the States and Canada, and Japan, as well as from other parts of Latin America. Two things they all have in common: 1-they’re crazy for Tango, 2-they’re not from Argentina.

If you lived in Kansas, and wanted to be a surfer, you’d have to be pretty crazy about surfing to stick with it, right? Well, make the analogy with Tango, and I think that’s the reason the American/European/Japanese tangueros are crazy.

And it’s not true that there aren’t Argentines crazy for Tango as well. Have you ever been to Salon Canning? Club Sunderland? You must have, because you’ve already described them perfectly:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
an all consuming, snobby activity where the “dance” goes beyond the dance floor.

…but if you think such a large community means that there’s room for you, think again. Don’t even think about showing up at a milonga if you are “confident” in your tango skills: these are not events at which to learn, or build confidence in the dance. These are events for your tango click to show up the other click, and for those who haven’t yet invested in thirty pairs of tango shoes, to respectfully sit to the side and admire these “artists” or dance.
[/quote]
It’s just that there, Tango is actually a mainstream activity (nowadays, that is, after the recent revival). So, you still have the Argentine crazies, but you have about 10 times more people who just enjoy the dance as a casual, social dance.

Tango is everywhere there, so its practitioners run the gamut of seriousness. And where it is a specialized, clique activity, its practitioners are specialized, cliquish crazies!

38

i had a family freind tell me they went on a tango vacation to learn tango and then dance it in carnival or something like that. i laughed pretty hard at them for that one. sweet dancing vacation bro.

39

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
We also butcher the meat differently (different cuts), which I beleive make the meat more tender, less sinewy.
[/quote]

Hmmm…I will look into this, but do you have any more info. on this? I know different countries butcher meat differently, but often it’s the same cut, but just a different name…it seems odd that the rest of the world wouldn’t start cutting their meat like Argentinians if the cuts were truly superior…

40

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]fraggle wrote:

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
[/quote]

X2

I’m not sure if it was the Asado, but Argentinian beef is by far the best beef I have ever had in my life. It was cheap as hell too, you could get a sirloin the size of a brick of cheese for $7 Canadian at a restaraunt.

Is it what they feed the cattle? Spices?

end hijack [/quote]

Typically we don’t grill meat with spices, just salt and the deliciousness of the fat (I have to ask my butcher to NOT trim the fat). It is indeed all in the beef, and the green grass of the pampas. We also butcher the meat differently (different cuts), which I beleive make the meat more tender, less sinewy.

Argentina is still pretty cheap - there’s been a bit of inflation, but with foreign dollars you can still eat and drink like a king. I recommend everyone take a visit. Its a beautiful country, full of all sorts of weird cultural juxtapositions and the people are very warm, even the thieves.

Buenos Aires itself is like the divorcee of a rich banker who has resorted to selling her jewelry in order to maintain her bougie lifestyle. Its so much fun![/quote]

I was pretty sure that it had something to do with feed.

I also recommend Argentina for a vacation. I spent 3 weeks there and loved it.