Tamoxifen During Cycle, Swollen Nipples

Pharma / TRT
1

Hello everyone,

been following the forum since a while - but now i need the actuall help.

So basically, it’s my first cycle - i’m running 500 test-e(100% pharma stuff) / divided into 2 injections | monday pm & friday am

I’ve been doing amazing, my diet is on top and so is my training - havent been doing anything else apart from training and eating for the past 6 weeks, since i started my cycle.

Back to the question:

When i started the cycle, in the week 3/4(something like that) I had a “burning feeling” in my chest/my nipples area, but i didn’t get scared and didn’t panic and start taking tamoxifen or whatever straight away. I took it like that as the test was aromotasing and it was normal to happen. I waited another 2 weeks, so then i was into my 5th week and the feeling dissapeard.

What i notice now that that when i fully flex my chest or whatsoever the nipples look kinda “weird”, they look kinda swelling - they are not sore or anything like that, only when i push into it and move it, i kinda notice some kind of “pain”.

So i’m in the middle of my 8th week and i just want to be sure that i don’t risk anything and say “ye most likely its nothing” and just leave it like, i want to be 100% sure to prevent gyno if there is anything happening

what i’m asking for is the “precise” answer in my case, not any1’s else - should i start doing anastrozol eod or should i start taking tamoxifen at 20mg ed till the end of the cycle and in the post cycle therapy with clomid?

I guess the only right thing is to do tamoxifen since i want to secure that i don’t get gyno and anastrozol doesn’t apply in my case?

So again, i got 9 weeks left, should i start dosing Tamoxifen at 20mg for the remaining 9 weeks and then for another 5 weeks during the PCT, together with clomid?

Thanks alot!

2

typically you don’t want to rely on a SERM on cycle to manage estrogen side effects… if you’re having aromatization, you need to address that, rather than the symptoms. if you were managing estrogen and you got gyno, then adding in a SERM (ralox is typically better for this) would make sense.

Aromasin would be a good option now, and run that into Nolva as your PCT.

AI’s and SERMs are kind of explained here: Thoughts on Planning PCT - Pharma - Forums - T Nation

3

^btw, starting Armidex at this point is pretty late, as it’s not gonna kick in right away, and a-dex doesn’t work the best with SERMs.

Aromasin is much faster acting, and works better with Tamoxifen…

4

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
typically you don’t want to rely on a SERM on cycle to manage estrogen side effects… if you’re having aromatization, you need to address that, rather than the symptoms. if you were managing estrogen and you got gyno, then adding in a SERM (ralox is typically better for this) would make sense.

Aromasin would be a good option now, and run that into Nolva as your PCT.

AI’s and SERMs are kind of explained here: Thoughts on Planning PCT - Pharma - Forums - T Nation

[/quote]

Ye but what should i do in my case? Thats the question. Wouldn’t it make sense to start running tamoxifen for the last 8 weeks + 2 weeks and then + 4 weeks during the PCT together with clomid?
.

5

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^btw, starting Armidex at this point is pretty late, as it’s not gonna kick in right away, and a-dex doesn’t work the best with SERMs.

Aromasin is much faster acting, and works better with Tamoxifen… [/quote]

"Clomid does more then act as an anti-estrogen in certain tissues. In the pituitary it acts as an estrogen, sensitizing pituitary cells to the actions of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This stimulates release of FSH & LH. Enclomid the active anti-estrogenic component of Clomid is as effective as Clomid in this regard.

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized rats. Treatment of pituitary cells with Clomid or enclomid (10(-8) M) in vitro for 2 days resulted in a marked sensitization of the gonadotroph to GnRH as reflected by a 6.5-fold decrease in the ED50 of GnRH in terms of LH release from 2.2 x 10(-9) M in untreated cells to 3.6 x 10(-10) M.

Treatment with E2 or Clomid also increased the sensitivity of the gonadotroph to GnRH in terms of FSH release by 4.3- and 3.3-fold respectively.

Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin."

Doesnt this pretty much summarise that if lets say you have clomid and nolvadex(tamoxifen) - the first choice is clomid over tamox?

6

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
typically you don’t want to rely on a SERM on cycle to manage estrogen side effects… if you’re having aromatization, you need to address that, rather than the symptoms. if you were managing estrogen and you got gyno, then adding in a SERM (ralox is typically better for this) would make sense.

Aromasin would be a good option now, and run that into Nolva as your PCT.

AI’s and SERMs are kind of explained here: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct

[/quote]

Ye but what should i do in my case? Thats the question. Wouldn’t it make sense to start running tamoxifen for the last 8 weeks + 2 weeks and then + 4 weeks during the PCT together with clomid?
.[/quote]

you. need. to. address. the. aromatization.

Aromasin. 25 mg day.

7

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^btw, starting Armidex at this point is pretty late, as it’s not gonna kick in right away, and a-dex doesn’t work the best with SERMs.

Aromasin is much faster acting, and works better with Tamoxifen… [/quote]

"Clomid does more then act as an anti-estrogen in certain tissues. In the pituitary it acts as an estrogen, sensitizing pituitary cells to the actions of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This stimulates release of FSH & LH. Enclomid the active anti-estrogenic component of Clomid is as effective as Clomid in this regard.

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized rats. Treatment of pituitary cells with Clomid or enclomid (10(-8) M) in vitro for 2 days resulted in a marked sensitization of the gonadotroph to GnRH as reflected by a 6.5-fold decrease in the ED50 of GnRH in terms of LH release from 2.2 x 10(-9) M in untreated cells to 3.6 x 10(-10) M.

Treatment with E2 or Clomid also increased the sensitivity of the gonadotroph to GnRH in terms of FSH release by 4.3- and 3.3-fold respectively.

Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin."

Doesnt this pretty much summarise that if lets say you have clomid and nolvadex(tamoxifen) - the first choice is clomid over tamox?[/quote]

no, this actually shows the difference in analyzing studies on SERMs, AI’s and other compounds accurately… that first study you posted was in vitro on female rat cells, not in vivo in normal, healthy men. the difference is, the exact opposite happens in real life… tamoxifen increases sensitivity to GnRH, whereas Clomid lowers it.

and again, we also need to be aware of how the various compounds we use work together. armidex and letro lower the effectiveness of tamoxifen when combined. however, aromasin does not, and works just fine with all the SERMs.

right now you believe you have high estrogen, but are not treating it. the easiest course of action, would be to treat the estrogen. if you want to add a SERM in while on cycle in addition, then look into Raloxifene, which might be more effective for treating gyno than Nolva.

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(04)00319-1/abstract

the advantage of combining Ralox on cycle with Aromasin, is it can be swapped for Nolvadex later in PCT, which is more effective in raising testosterone levels.

8

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^btw, starting Armidex at this point is pretty late, as it’s not gonna kick in right away, and a-dex doesn’t work the best with SERMs.

Aromasin is much faster acting, and works better with Tamoxifen… [/quote]

"Clomid does more then act as an anti-estrogen in certain tissues. In the pituitary it acts as an estrogen, sensitizing pituitary cells to the actions of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This stimulates release of FSH & LH. Enclomid the active anti-estrogenic component of Clomid is as effective as Clomid in this regard.

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized rats. Treatment of pituitary cells with Clomid or enclomid (10(-8) M) in vitro for 2 days resulted in a marked sensitization of the gonadotroph to GnRH as reflected by a 6.5-fold decrease in the ED50 of GnRH in terms of LH release from 2.2 x 10(-9) M in untreated cells to 3.6 x 10(-10) M.

Treatment with E2 or Clomid also increased the sensitivity of the gonadotroph to GnRH in terms of FSH release by 4.3- and 3.3-fold respectively.

Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin."

Doesnt this pretty much summarise that if lets say you have clomid and nolvadex(tamoxifen) - the first choice is clomid over tamox?[/quote]

no, this actually shows the difference in analyzing studies on SERMs, AI’s and other compounds accurately… that first study you posted was in vitro on female rat cells, not in vivo in normal, healthy men. the difference is, the exact opposite happens in real life… tamoxifen increases sensitivity to GnRH, whereas Clomid lowers it.

and again, we also need to be aware of how the various compounds we use work together. armidex and letro lower the effectiveness of tamoxifen when combined. however, aromasin does not, and works just fine with all the SERMs.

right now you believe you have high estrogen, but are not treating it. the easiest course of action, would be to treat the estrogen. if you want to add a SERM in while on cycle in addition, then look into Raloxifene, which might be more effective for treating gyno than Nolva.

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(04)00319-1/abstract

the advantage of combining Ralox on cycle with Aromasin, is it can be swapped for Nolvadex later in PCT, which is more effective in raising testosterone levels.

hey, thanks for answering

so in my case - the way i described the feeling around the nipples area, you would say that i’m not really in danger for gyno and its just high estrogen? I’m just thinking a lot about it and my nipples seem all fine just a little bit swolen and i dont think that i have any kind of lumps, well i have a little “hard” area, you can play with on the both sides if for example you touch the nipple more from behind while holding more skin, i dont know if it’s a lump? People say when you have it you really kinda notice it a lot and it hurts when not touching it. Would make sense to make a picture?

I understand that you’re saying that i need to address the aromatization. Lets say if someone developed “lumps” already? What kind of advice you would give then, running Aromasin woldn’t help in this case at all?

The problem is that i can’t get anything you mentioned apart from Anastrozol, tamoxifen and clomid.

Another question about the pct, you’ve mentioned the risk of getting cancer while using Tamoxifen, how dangerous is it actually?

sorry for some stupid question but i just need to be sure and thanks a lot for your time and helping me out - appreciate it!

9

well, i guess this just got way more specific… if you have a hard lump, then you’re getting the beginnings of gyno.

i really think that Aromasin and Rolax are the go-to products in this situation. ( by the way, “research PCT chemicals” might be the best internet search for you… if you can get them, i’d go with this.)

Aromasin, 25 mg/day (take with a meal, as it increases absorption, and at night, as it makes me drowsy as shit).
Raloxifene, 60 mg/day

if you cannot get them, or get them in time, then i’d go with Armidex, as you need to address the conversion. i’d start with .5 mg of A-dex/day. it’s gonna take a couple days to get consistent blood levels, and you might see if it’s working then. if it doesn’t work, you have a couple choices… increase the dose of A-dex, decrease the dose of testosterone (or cut your cycle short) , or do nothing.

if the a-dex does the trick, then you need to continue with the dose you’re using, and run that into PCT. some guys stop their AI at the same time they stop their cycle, but this is not a good idea. SERMs do not reduce estrogen-they prevent binding to certain estrogen receptors. so even if you used a SERM now without an AI, you will still have to be wary of elevated estrogen when you complete your cycle.

anyway, once the ester clears out, start PCT. i believe tamoxifen is the strongest SERM we can use, and i’d run 20 mg/day here, for at least 6 weeks, and possibly up to 8 (it has been shown to be effective up to 8 weeks, btw).

however, i know toremifine has been gaining popularity, and is actually effective up to 12 weeks. however, 12 weeks of tore is only barely comparable to tamoxifen at 4 weeks. but, like you mentioned, there appears to be a decreased cancer risk. at this point, i don’t know the best answer to give a guy… i haven’t heard of anybody getting cancer from using Nolva a couple times a year in PCT (and the cancer risk might be sex dependent, and in women only). but at the same time, tore apparently does not have this concern, and if you have a family history of cancer, i would say tore is the smartest move, long term.

in the future, i’d suggest adding in an AI, or at least having it available for your cycle. A-dex and Femara (letrozole) are very effective at keeping estrogen low, but need to be started earlier than aromasin, because of how they work. they should also not be stopped abruptly, as they are “reversibly bound” to the aromatase enzyme. this means that if you still have a ton of testosterone in your body and stop taking the AI, the aromatase enzyme can become un-bound as the AI clears, and go back to creating estrogen.

however, Aromasin does not do this. it binds permanently to the enzyme, and clears it out of the body. until you produce more of the aromatase enzyme, aromasin has nothing to do…

and like i said before, SERMs don’t reduce estrogen. you don’t want high estrogen at the end of your cycle, as you can get rebound gyno after PCT, and estrogen is actually more suppressive to the HPTA than high testosterone is…

hope this all helps. good luck!

10

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, i guess this just got way more specific… if you have a hard lump, then you’re getting the beginnings of gyno.

i really think that Aromasin and Rolax are the go-to products in this situation. ( by the way, “research PCT chemicals” might be the best internet search for you… if you can get them, i’d go with this.)

Aromasin, 25 mg/day (take with a meal, as it increases absorption, and at night, as it makes me drowsy as shit).
Raloxifene, 60 mg/day

if you cannot get them, or get them in time, then i’d go with Armidex, as you need to address the conversion. i’d start with .5 mg of A-dex/day. it’s gonna take a couple days to get consistent blood levels, and you might see if it’s working then. if it doesn’t work, you have a couple choices… increase the dose of A-dex, decrease the dose of testosterone (or cut your cycle short) , or do nothing.

if the a-dex does the trick, then you need to continue with the dose you’re using, and run that into PCT. some guys stop their AI at the same time they stop their cycle, but this is not a good idea. SERMs do not reduce estrogen-they prevent binding to certain estrogen receptors. so even if you used a SERM now without an AI, you will still have to be wary of elevated estrogen when you complete your cycle.

anyway, once the ester clears out, start PCT. i believe tamoxifen is the strongest SERM we can use, and i’d run 20 mg/day here, for at least 6 weeks, and possibly up to 8 (it has been shown to be effective up to 8 weeks, btw).

however, i know toremifine has been gaining popularity, and is actually effective up to 12 weeks. however, 12 weeks of tore is only barely comparable to tamoxifen at 4 weeks. but, like you mentioned, there appears to be a decreased cancer risk. at this point, i don’t know the best answer to give a guy… i haven’t heard of anybody getting cancer from using Nolva a couple times a year in PCT (and the cancer risk might be sex dependent, and in women only). but at the same time, tore apparently does not have this concern, and if you have a family history of cancer, i would say tore is the smartest move, long term.

in the future, i’d suggest adding in an AI, or at least having it available for your cycle. A-dex and Femara (letrozole) are very effective at keeping estrogen low, but need to be started earlier than aromasin, because of how they work. they should also not be stopped abruptly, as they are “reversibly bound” to the aromatase enzyme. this means that if you still have a ton of testosterone in your body and stop taking the AI, the aromatase enzyme can become un-bound as the AI clears, and go back to creating estrogen.

however, Aromasin does not do this. it binds permanently to the enzyme, and clears it out of the body. until you produce more of the aromatase enzyme, aromasin has nothing to do…

and like i said before, SERMs don’t reduce estrogen. you don’t want high estrogen at the end of your cycle, as you can get rebound gyno after PCT, and estrogen is actually more suppressive to the HPTA than high testosterone is…

hope this all helps. good luck![/quote]

hey,

well it’s a tricky one - hopefully it’s gonna be a last question.

the thing is i think i don’t have a lump, well if you just touch the nipple on the top side there is nothing at all and if you touch with your fingers outside the “brown” area like deeply into it and squezze it together then there is something but it’s just some kinda tissue, i just asked a friend of mine to do it and he has the same thing, so i take it as it’s normal there. There is nothing that hurts at all if i dont touch it

what would you say about it ^^? Im pretty sure it was at week 2/3 the same thing and i mean i couldnt have had lumps in week 2/3 alrdy.

You see people advicing as soon as something like this happen to start tamoxifen for few days at 40mg and then lower it down to 20mg to see if it “dissapears” - is this complete bs***?

11

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, i guess this just got way more specific… if you have a hard lump, then you’re getting the beginnings of gyno.

i really think that Aromasin and Rolax are the go-to products in this situation. ( by the way, “research PCT chemicals” might be the best internet search for you… if you can get them, i’d go with this.)

Aromasin, 25 mg/day (take with a meal, as it increases absorption, and at night, as it makes me drowsy as shit).
Raloxifene, 60 mg/day

if you cannot get them, or get them in time, then i’d go with Armidex, as you need to address the conversion. i’d start with .5 mg of A-dex/day. it’s gonna take a couple days to get consistent blood levels, and you might see if it’s working then. if it doesn’t work, you have a couple choices… increase the dose of A-dex, decrease the dose of testosterone (or cut your cycle short) , or do nothing.

if the a-dex does the trick, then you need to continue with the dose you’re using, and run that into PCT. some guys stop their AI at the same time they stop their cycle, but this is not a good idea. SERMs do not reduce estrogen-they prevent binding to certain estrogen receptors. so even if you used a SERM now without an AI, you will still have to be wary of elevated estrogen when you complete your cycle.

anyway, once the ester clears out, start PCT. i believe tamoxifen is the strongest SERM we can use, and i’d run 20 mg/day here, for at least 6 weeks, and possibly up to 8 (it has been shown to be effective up to 8 weeks, btw).

however, i know toremifine has been gaining popularity, and is actually effective up to 12 weeks. however, 12 weeks of tore is only barely comparable to tamoxifen at 4 weeks. but, like you mentioned, there appears to be a decreased cancer risk. at this point, i don’t know the best answer to give a guy… i haven’t heard of anybody getting cancer from using Nolva a couple times a year in PCT (and the cancer risk might be sex dependent, and in women only). but at the same time, tore apparently does not have this concern, and if you have a family history of cancer, i would say tore is the smartest move, long term.

in the future, i’d suggest adding in an AI, or at least having it available for your cycle. A-dex and Femara (letrozole) are very effective at keeping estrogen low, but need to be started earlier than aromasin, because of how they work. they should also not be stopped abruptly, as they are “reversibly bound” to the aromatase enzyme. this means that if you still have a ton of testosterone in your body and stop taking the AI, the aromatase enzyme can become un-bound as the AI clears, and go back to creating estrogen.

however, Aromasin does not do this. it binds permanently to the enzyme, and clears it out of the body. until you produce more of the aromatase enzyme, aromasin has nothing to do…

and like i said before, SERMs don’t reduce estrogen. you don’t want high estrogen at the end of your cycle, as you can get rebound gyno after PCT, and estrogen is actually more suppressive to the HPTA than high testosterone is…

hope this all helps. good luck![/quote]

hey,

well it’s a tricky one - hopefully it’s gonna be a last question.

the thing is i think i don’t have a lump, well if you just touch the nipple on the top side there is nothing at all and if you touch with your fingers outside the “brown” area like deeply into it and squezze it together then there is something but it’s just some kinda tissue, i just asked a friend of mine to do it and he has the same thing, so i take it as it’s normal there. There is nothing that hurts at all if i dont touch it

what would you say about it ^^? Im pretty sure it was at week 2/3 the same thing and i mean i couldnt have had lumps in week 2/3 alrdy.

You see people advicing as soon as something like this happen to start tamoxifen for few days at 40mg and then lower it down to 20mg to see if it “dissapears” - is this complete bs***?

[/quote]

honestly, when you see the “take Nolva” advice, it’s for guys that are already taking an AI on cycle… you’re not in that group, tho.

unless you have blood work, we don’t know if you have high estrogen or not. but we assume you do, which is a pretty reasonable assumption here.

so, we could take a SERM, and block the ER from estrogen. however, estrogen is still high, and aromatization is still occurring, and will occur into PCT.

or you could take an AI, and lower your estrogen, and hopefully prevent there from being enough to exert any more effects on the ER. and when you start PCT, won’t have to worry about high estrogen.

^of those 2 options, only one actually addresses the condition: using the AI…the SERM just addresses the symptoms.

or just take Aromasin and Ralox now, and transition into Nolva for PCT (or Tore) and be good.

12

Hey,

well i will do a bloodtest and look for my estrogen and another question

if i dont get ralo and aromasin i will do arimidex for 3 days 1mg / a day, afterwards .5mg e3d and i will continue and see the effects if it gets worse, if it gets worse i will quit the cycle. If i continue, will go into PCT leading to nolva 20mg for 8 weeks(should i then take Arimidex in the PCT aswell for 8 weeks?, what would say about clomid in this case, if i did it for 8 weeks at 50mg / a day?

if i will get ralo and aromasin, i will do it thru the cycle and swap ralo for nolva in the PCT.

13

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:
Hey,

well i will do a bloodtest and look for my estrogen and another question

if i dont get ralo and aromasin i will do arimidex for 3 days 1mg / a day, afterwards .5mg e3d and i will continue and see the effects if it gets worse, if it gets worse i will quit the cycle. If i continue, will go into PCT leading to nolva 20mg for 8 weeks(should i then take Arimidex in the PCT aswell for 8 weeks?, what would say about clomid in this case, if i did it for 8 weeks at 50mg / a day?

if i will get ralo and aromasin, i will do it thru the cycle and swap ralo for nolva in the PCT.[/quote]

well, you can’t combine a-dex with nolva, as it reduces the effectiveness.

if the a-dex works, and you transition it into PCT, i’d go with toremifine or clomiphene (and this is really the only time i’d suggest clomid, btw).

14

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Lukekk1 wrote:
Hey,

well i will do a bloodtest and look for my estrogen and another question

if i dont get ralo and aromasin i will do arimidex for 3 days 1mg / a day, afterwards .5mg e3d and i will continue and see the effects if it gets worse, if it gets worse i will quit the cycle. If i continue, will go into PCT leading to nolva 20mg for 8 weeks(should i then take Arimidex in the PCT aswell for 8 weeks?, what would say about clomid in this case, if i did it for 8 weeks at 50mg / a day?

if i will get ralo and aromasin, i will do it thru the cycle and swap ralo for nolva in the PCT.[/quote]

well, you can’t combine a-dex with nolva, as it reduces the effectiveness.

if the a-dex works, and you transition it into PCT, i’d go with toremifine or clomiphene (and this is really the only time i’d suggest clomid, btw).
[/quote]

Hey,

did some research and need your opinion again on this, lets say it’s the worst case and i have actual little lumps developed. SERMS won’t lower the estrogen, so if i do Arimidex 1mg for few days and then 0.5mg e3d for the remaining 8 weeks and transit into pct with clomid - so i should have my estrogen under control, right? This makes sense or not?

I’ve been reading on “reversing gyno” - so in my case it’s not like i have fully developed gyno since 2 years or whatever,

the advice we’re similiar to yours

  1. raloxifene 60mg a day / bump it by 20mg + AI
  2. nolvaldex 1 week 40mg ed and then rest 20mg ed for 2 or 3 months

and then i should pretty much have sorted this problem, no?

This is complete other stuff i though myself about, what if i did arimidex for the remaining 8 weeks so i would control and lower my estrogen till the end of the cycle and then i hit nolva 40mg ed 1st week and 20mg rest + clomid in the pct and continue with nolva for lets say longer period of time?

I mean if i have a “lump”, i won’t get it away straight after anyways? I would have to fight it after with tamoxifen or ralo off cycle, right? So wouldnt this make sense to lower it and keep it like it is, so it won’t get any worse? and then just fight against it after the cycle?

Could you answer these “ideas” point by point and again man, i’m really thankful for your time and that you’re helping me out!

15

well, as long as A-dex has lowered your current estrogen and minimized future aromatization, then yes, you should be good (or better off, at least) going into PCT.

i guess i don’t know what else it is you’re asking…