Talking Libertarianism

Considering the history of the world, this is a pretty amazing time to be alive.

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Listening to a podcast last night on my way home - Free Thoughts by LIbertarianism.org.

The hosts interviewed a guy by the name of Michael Strong who is an advocate for “conscious capitalism” … interesting guy - really good interview.

He brings up that stat during the conversation - I’ve read it before through HumanProgress.org (a Cato organization) as well as AEI.

I’ll never hear Lester Holt report it though … thanks for the link.

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When you put things into context, it’s very difficult to be pessimistic when you’re thankful for what others have already done for you to this point. We truly do stand on the shoulders of giants.

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Absolutely. Anyone that questions that spends way to much time smoking what Zep is selling.

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Thanks. I’ll take a look!

Indeed. That’s quite a drop in poverty, right? We have a lot to be grateful for.

Interesting that you find something like that interesting.

The communist would disagree and it would be pointless to argue. And that’s the point. Young people have lost faith in capitalism based on how it’s been implemented and evolved in practice. To criticize them and nitpick by saying they don’t know what true capitalism is supposed to be ignores the real issue which is how capitalism is working in the real world. So arguing about what “real” capitalism is supposed to be like is like arguing with a communist who argues about how communism is supposed to work. The point is how the real world appears to these young people. This is why I ask if capitalism inevitably leads to totalitarianism or some other anti-liberal (the classical sort) government when put into practice.

Then why say communism and socialism are all about theft and capitalism equals freedom? Those are moral judgments.

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Who criticizes them that way? Most people don’t want to leave others alone. It’s not that people don’t like any degree of capitalism; it’s that we are envious thieves. Most people would rather people gain by need than by ability, until they get to deal with the results of that.

Communism and socialism are only all about theft if they are not agreed to voluntarily and unanimously by those subject. Economic systems do not have morals; people have morals.

A,B,C agree to split their properties and incomes in thirds(according to need, I think). Communism. Not immoral.
A and B agree to split their properties and incomes in thirds, and that C will also do so. C does not agree. A and B force C to go along(unless he leaves his property in their control and goes away). Immoral(on the part of A and B).

A,B,C agree to manage their properties and incomes cooperatively. Socialism. Not immoral.
A and B agree to manage their properties and incomes cooperatively, and that C’s property and income will also be involved. C will also have a chance to participate in management. C does not agree. A and B force C to go along(unless he leaves his property in their control and goes away). Immoral(on the part of A and B).

A, B, and C agree to manage their own properties and incomes. Capitalism. Not immoral.
A and B agree to manage their properties and incomes cooperatively, while allowing C to manage his property and income. Capitalism. Not immoral.

The morality of capitalism depends on the free will of the individual. Can the same be said for socialism?

Indeed. I came across the text of this speech a few years ago and it has always stuck with me. We focus on all the bad and in the age of the internet every little thing gets exploded.

Ignore the speaker as I know he has had issues before that may not make him trustworthy but the body of this is great.

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That was a fantastic speech, @H_factor. Thanks for sharing! I forwarded that to my men. When I read something really good, I will send a link to my husband and son.

The advances in globalization, and technology, medicine. Reduction in poverty, higher life expediencies… On and on.

You might like this. Ignore the title of the clip there. Zakaria quoted Steven Pinker in the talk you posted, talking about some of this. Anyway, negativity bias seems to account for a lot of our nature, and that goes for both sides of the political coin I think. We tend to focus on the bad news. If it bleeds it leads, kinds of things.

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Spot on stuff. I have done this many times with people on this very forum who say something along the effects of the crime rate now, abortion rate, terrorism, etc is so high and compare it to what they think was better olden days. Except back then you didn’t have 24/7 news and a kid like me in Kansas wouldn’t know if a child was murdered in Florida that day. The pure amount of information we have now and access to it tends to paint this picture that things have never been as bad in the world as they are now.

Quite simply and statistically proveable the “good old days” weren’t that good.

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Nostalgia just ain’t what it used to be.

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The part of the Pinker clip that struck me was about how we know that negative or tragic things stay with us, carry more intensity, make a much bigger impression. We’re vigilant for things that go wrong. I assume that’s an important survival mechanism.

Then he goes a bit into how they’ve done research where they know newspaper editors intentionally choose headlines or stories with a more negative spin, playing into that little fact about human nature. Multiplied by the internet, 24/7, No wonder there are so many people who think the world has never been worse.

Ha! You got that right.

Seriously, paraphrasing Pinker. He said something like, “Hitherto neglected social problems come up and get attention, and we sometimes make progress solving those problems.” All good. Some solutions create their own problems which must be delt with. Amen, Bro. That’s speaking our language.

On the flip side of the nostalgia factor - Some people get so focused on the perceived injustices going on now that they abandon all sense of reason, or rationality. SJW ism, often looks to me like people who constantly look for small, or perceived slights to rail on. Constant outrage and unhappiness with the way things are is seen as not only normal but a virtue.

If you aren’t outraged all the time at present ills, you’re… doing it wrong. Edited to add: No wonder, they think we’re the MOST heartless of all. The least emotional personality type on the political spectrum.

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but just in case it hasn’t, it’s well worth the <5 minutes it takes to read:

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Ask a socialist.

Tell that to someone from Alabama.

I thought I did.

Based on me not having posted anything in its defense but rather the opposite? No wonder Americans fall for fake news. You just want to believe whatever you want regardless of facts.

Or are you just from Alabama?

That was very funny.

… Welcome to the dark side. Spend much time in here and you’ll soon be rebelling against all kinds of things.

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