Hello T-Nation. Looking for some insight on interpreting some mood/changes along with T-therapy data. 29yo.
Started off early January with Androgel under the supervision of my doc (nice guy gave me 3 months worth of free samples). Was using 5g of 1% T-gel, saw great results with my mental health. (significant reduction in anxiety/stress, more energy, etc.) Switched 3 months in to Delatestryl (100mg twice/week SubC.). Added HcG (500IU twice a week) 3 months in.
T levels
Jan: 22.4 nmol/L
March: 21.1 nmol/L (felt a bit sluggish again, added HcG for shrinkage at this point, switched from Androgel to Test Eth. 100mg twice/week)
Aug: >52nmol/L (test didnt go that high)
Estradiol
March: 111.1 pmol/L
Aug: 149pmol/L
SHBG
Aug: 27.3 nmol/ML
Questions
A friend (also on T-therapy, though into bodybuilding) gave me some arimidex to try. Noticed harder erections/higher sex drive for the first few weeks (am taking 1mg/week), but now reduced sex drive.
Of late, have been sluggish and a bit down. Not noticing the improved mood/anxiety reduction that I had while first on the T-therapy. Anyone else experience this? My current thought is that I might be too low on the arimidex dosage, as demonstrated by the higher current Estradiol.
Any and all opinions/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks team.
I wish i could tell you Brother the perfect dosage for your Arimidex but you need an experienced user to tell you like KSman he’s more expert than me. Personally whatever High your estrogen on Bloodwork you should try & Calculate by trying different dose of Arimidex and see how you feel, i would never go over 3mg per week though, would be very unwise. Sorry too hear you’re not feeling like when you first started on TRT too man.
50mg twice weekly, drop the AI and test in 6 weeks. Injecting one dosage weekly creates high levels in the beginning of the week followed by lower levels at the end of the week, as time goes on the hormonal swings get bigger and you feel less relief from each injection.
This is why you feel sluggish, you need to keep your levels stable with as little fluctuations as possible, then you will start to feel better. If you experience high estrogen after 6 weeks and labs confirm it, split the AI into 2 doses and take with your injections twice-weekly.
What is your current AI dosage?
Guys often don’t feel well in the middle of a protocol change or within the 6 week window where levels haven’t reached a stable state and pop an AI down the hatch, big mistake. You could be coming down with the flu and believe its high estrogen.
I’m currently doing 100mg twice weekly and have been since I transitioned from Androgel to T-injections. Are you suggesting dropping the T dosage down to half?
I started at 111pmol/L E2 = approximately 30pg/ml E2
Now at 149pmol/L E2 = approximately 40.5pg/ml E2
Current AI dosage is 1mg Arimidex per week.
Also, 500IU hCG twice per week.
I added arimidex because it made my erections harder, as well as noticing positive effects. My thoughts were that because the relative dosage of T was high, I should either up the Arimidex to 2mg/week, or drop the T-dosage down (since my most recent labs reported 1500+ ng/dL of Test)
I added Arimidex because my E2 levels have risen to 40pg/mL,from 30pg/mL on 200mg of Test Eth /week. Also, because it made my d**k harder and increased my sex drive.
Thanks for the support. It’s a learning experience. Bodies/hormones are weird. Gotta learn my own personal bio-dynamics. I figure it helps to consult the experts before doing something that might otherwise be dumb.
So what? High testosterone needs higher estrogen. Did you have symptoms? (this is the part I don’t understand) Sounds like you introduced an ancillary medication with no indication to do so. Now your low e2, more than likely.
E2 control should go like this: 1. Lower dose. 2. Lose Weight. 3. Natural Methods (lemon water, DIM)
The only thing that would warrant using the AI would have been if you had itchy nipples. Even then, I wouldn’t use it.
Sounds like you were doing pretty good. Then you added arimidex.
This is a COMMON thread, and probably the only reason I will post here anymore.
I cant watch people throw away months/years of their lives by crushing their e2 for no reason.
You don’t want to do that. I am STILL having joint issues from messing with e2.
Forgive me I misread, thought you were doing once 200mg weekly. You seem like your test is being hyper metabolized requiring a higher dosage than most men. Most men can achieve high normal on only 100 weekly.
Test levels are fine, levels are slightly above midranges. Estrogen is coming in at 30 pg/mL and isn’t high by any means and may just be that you are sensitive to estrogen. The problem is I’ll bet your E2 labs aren’t the LC/MS/MS method, therefore your true estrogen is lower.
Arimidex can cause some to have fatigue, it’s a drug and they come with their own side effects. Whenever I increase the Arimidex I get fatigued for awhile as my body adjusts, then the fatigue subsides.
I was injecting 100mg a week, turned my Test from a 253 to an 813 in 6 weeks. My E2 was at a 53 and I felt that was high. But I just wasnt accustomed to how my body was changing so rapidly. I had been low T for years. I didn’t take anything for my E2. I did split my dose and now I am pinning on Tuesdays nights and Saturday mornings. I am not having the ups and downs, roller coasters, peaks and valleys, what ever you want to call it. You should rely more on how you feel vs what the number is.
When was the last blood test drawn compared to the last time you pinned? Did you pin, then have blood drawn the next day or 2 days later? That would explain such high readings. My endo told me to get blood work done in the middle of my shots or the day before the shot but not the day or 2 days after the shot.
Yeah, that’s good advice, I was definitely going by the numbers as I am used to that for work. I’m fairly sure it was 2 or 3 days since I injected when I had the test done. I thought it was a bit high considering when I was on an approximately equivalent dose of Androgel, my numbers didn’t get nearly that high.
Thanks for the reply and continuing to post here. I had read that the 20-30ng/mL E2 range was desirable from an article here on T-nation (not sure which one at the moment). Seeing a 35% increase in my E2 had me a bit worried (thankfully I also read that starting low was a good idea instead of blasting with Arimidex).
You make mention that higher Test “needs” higher estrogen. Can you elaborate on that for me? I haven’t come across that info.
So far, I think I’m going to lower the T to 75mg twice a week (weekly decrease from 200mg>150mg), stop taking any arimidex, and use 400IU of hCG twice a week (800IU weekly).
Testosterone and Estrogen need to be in a good ratio. Numbers don’t mean as much as how you feel.
When you were younger, and your testosterone was high, your estrogen was “higher” as well. Its what happens when your test is high, you aromatize more into e2.
Look at some posts by physioLojik.
Starting protocol is usually 100mg a week. Then you adjust from there. You also are using HCG, which can cause higher e2 issues.
Update, been a week since I was having the first of the issues. Pinned 75mg instead of 100mg, dropped the Arimidex, skipped an hCG shot and feeling back to normal again with signs that I’ll be back to feeling good soon as well. Likely was the Arimidex causing the issues.
Thanks everyone for the input. Would have definitely took longer to figure things out without your insight.