[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Computer engineers, if they had a focus on hardware, I see as true ‘engineers.’ CEs with a focus on software - programmers. Yes, they still matter, no I do not see them as traditional engineers.
[/quote]
The line between hardware and software is extremely blurry. I had an internship at AMD where I was working on verifying hardware, but from a software point of view. See, the thing about hardware is that it goes through a long lifecycle where it only exists as software (VHDL/Verilog code) and is being tested by other software (ie. the testbench: C++, perl, SystemVerilog, etc…). Only at the end does it ever get ‘taped out’ onto silicon.
I’m an electrical engineer. I do mostly radar/satellite/space system simulations. Its a cool job, one of the few I could imagine myself doing for a living and being relatively happy.
My coworkers while not altogether unathletic, are pretty much skinny fat. They eat like crap, drink a lot of soda, and do a minimal amount of physical activity. Not bad guys, but I do have a hard time connecting with them on a personal level.
I will top you all:
I have been in some form of IT work for the past 5-6 years, and believe me nobody in that field is healthy.
Hell, everyone I work with is amazed that I have not yet taken up smoking given the amount of on-the-job stress.
[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
And re: computer engineering:
Sure, they are always needed. I just have a problem with labeling programmers as software “engineers” when they do not really employ basic engineering/physics/chemistry principles in their daily work. There is math involved, sure, but this is like when you hear teachers being labeled ‘educadtion engineers.’ That pisses me off to no end, because engineers have paid their academic dues and you can’t just slap that label on anyone to make them sound important.
I could care less what people are called, but programmers and ‘real’ engineers pretty much do the same thing, as far as I can tell. They both design and analyze systems. What’s the difference between calculating max flow rates and calculating big O? Or refining a process, also known as ‘refactoring’ in the software world? Calculating capacity requirements, or calculating paging requirements?
What is your background in software engineering? To me, all disciplines based on mathematical calculation (that aren’t true mathematics) are the same. Whether you play with gravity, or molecules, or bits and bytes, that’s just the medium.[/quote]
I think the distinction between engineering and software development is very much there. Software development is enormously more complex than structural, mechanical, or chemical engineering because it involves inordinately many more “moving parts”, is almost always constantly in flux with ever-changing requirements, and is far less “provable”. This also has the effect of introducing N bugs per kloc, whereas modern bridges and buildings usually don’t fall down N times per floor. It has been likened to half art, half science, half craft, and I tend to agree with that sentiment.
Anyway, on topic, I am cs/cse, and currently work as a software architect. I actually started off life as a huge computer nerd, and only discovered iron about 6 years ago as an adult.
[quote]Chewie wrote:
blaque.ops wrote:
I’ve a BEng in Electronic and Electrical Engineering, I’d say Mechanical Engineers are the most useful, followed by EEE then Aeronautic/Aerodynamic. Although I give respect to anyone who gets the job done!
No way. Civil Engineers are the most useful for society. Think about it. Who designs the structures, dams, water treatment facilities, drainage facilities, roads, bridges, reservoirs… It’s Civil Engineers. We make the world go around.
All engineers get my respect, though.
[/quote]
Without Mech Eng, you’d still be using wood to build bridges. We build the tools, you use them.
We make the world go round 
Ok, since we have so many engineers chiming in:
What class(es) really knocked you on your ass in your undergrad?
For me, it was physics E&M. I had to retake that class several times. It’s been the only class to really mess me up and, looking back, I have no clue why it really did that to me, but it did.
Circuit analysis roughed me up some but E&M really made me talk to God.
I’m a retired engineer well semi-retired as I still do some consulting! I’ve spent over 40 years in the ICT field (one of those who made the cell-phone happen) and also been lifting weights for the same amount of time. In contrast to what you guys say there are more women in engineering than when I started although they tend more to the software side.
For some of you who think an engineers life is boring you should go into the installation and commissioning side. I travelled the world and even went to places that no self respecting person would set foot in aka jungles, deserts and war zones. Now that I am getting old I just might write my autobiography.
Good luck to all you young engineers, hope you survive the downturn which is upon us.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Ok, since we have so many engineers chiming in:
What class(es) really knocked you on your ass in your undergrad?
For me, it was physics E&M. I had to retake that class several times. It’s been the only class to really mess me up and, looking back, I have no clue why it really did that to me, but it did.
Circuit analysis roughed me up some but E&M really made me talk to God.[/quote]
I failed my first circuits class twice. EM was tough too, but I managed to do well enough to pass. I really didn’t do well in anything until I was taking my senior level and some graduate level courses.
I think is was my first DSP course where I figured out that I liked the material, then estimation theory, some analog and digital modulation courses, more dsp classes, and an image processing class sealed the deal.
Now I got a real job and I’m still trying to figure out an area to get really good at.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Ok, since we have so many engineers chiming in:
What class(es) really knocked you on your ass in your undergrad?
For me, it was physics E&M. I had to retake that class several times. It’s been the only class to really mess me up and, looking back, I have no clue why it really did that to me, but it did.
Circuit analysis roughed me up some but E&M really made me talk to God.[/quote]
Never failed or had to re-take a class but classical physics and electromagnetic field & wave theory were my worst classes. I also wasn’t a fan of multiple variable calc.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
csuson wrote:
lt1powerd wrote:
I’ve heard that an engineer with a PE and MBA is up there close to god.
That is also what I’ve heard. Seeing as I just graduated, I have to wait 5 years for the PE, but after that I’m hoping that whatever company I am with will pay for part of my MBA.
By ‘PE’ do you guys mean “Professional Engineer (license)” ? I take it that that is what you are referring to.
And re: computer engineering:
Sure, they are always needed. I just have a problem with labeling programmers as software “engineers” when they do not really employ basic engineering/physics/chemistry principles in their daily work. There is math involved, sure, but this is like when you hear teachers being labeled ‘educadtion engineers.’ That pisses me off to no end, because engineers have paid their academic dues and you can’t just slap that label on anyone to make them sound important.
Computer engineers, if they had a focus on hardware, I see as true ‘engineers.’ CEs with a focus on software - programmers. Yes, they still matter, no I do not see them as traditional engineers.
Not bashing you, either.[/quote]
Yeah, for sure, but at least in my case, there are a few differences between calling myself an engineer an calling a teacher an engineer…
For one thing, I’ve studied engineering at an abet accredited 4-year college. also, for me, my engineering curriculum was really well-rounded. I got A’s in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, solid mechanics, dynamics, and courses in systems, stat for engineers, etc. (at my school, Swarthmore College, the Engineering program requires you to be really well-rounded, both within engineering and without).
Yeah, I choose to do computer engineering, and yeah, at times that is more a software thing than a hardware thing. But I feel legit calling myself an engineer, as I know all the hardware stuff, and I also feel qualified in other engineering disciplines.
And if a teacher can say the same, then they can also call themselves an engineer, as far as I’m concerned. I mean, Engineering is an accredited field. If I fix toilets, that doesn’t mean I can call myself a Plumber, M.D. Just like with an “educational engineer”, that is using metaphor.
But, if a computer engineer can call themselves an engineer, in the strict sense, and without using metaphor… Then engineer it is!
dan
Well…I just obtained my Diploma in Industrial Electronics, friggin 4 year course. Was some tough shit but was worth it I think. Also got journeyman certificate as an Industrial Electronics Technician, Wiremen licence for domestic installations etc etc…
At the moment I’m doin a 2 year full time course to get my HND in electrical and electronics Engineering. If everything goes well then another year or 2 to get my Bsc. in electrical and electronics engineering.
Aye I love Engineering, but can be stressful sometimes. I feel that weight lifting helps relive tension, hell at least I need to relive stress after doin shit load of math and what not.
My 2 cents
Ah and by the way,
bloody hell I love Laplace transforms. Its like having sex with math. Hmmm. I’m talking like a geek I think. ah well…
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
Ok, since we have so many engineers chiming in:
What class(es) really knocked you on your ass in your undergrad?
For me, it was physics E&M. I had to retake that class several times. It’s been the only class to really mess me up and, looking back, I have no clue why it really did that to me, but it did.
Circuit analysis roughed me up some but E&M really made me talk to God.
Never failed or had to re-take a class but classical physics and electromagnetic field & wave theory were my worst classes. I also wasn’t a fan of multiple variable calc.[/quote]
See, I failed E&M and circuits analysis. Mutli-variable calc? I loved it, did well in it. I also loved thermodynamics and optics but mechanics was my favorite. I hear mechanics becomes insanely complicated in more advanced classes; I have no clue why E&M seems to be the class to bring most people to their knees, but that’s what it did to me.
I will say, though, that EVERYTHING made a hell of a lot more sense after I took differential equations. They should make that class a pre-requisite to ALL physics classes. Same with linear algebra.
Funny how that works.
After taking all that math, I can look back and even basic things in geometry and trigonometry make more sense. It’s like the stress of higher level math matures the brain and even math functions that are very basic you are able to see in a different light with more clarity.
Circuits and Electronics.
I fucking hated that class. It made a bitch out of me. I understood and grasped everything except the damn switches/relays. Guess what was on the final, yep a switch and I got 0/30 points on it.
The other thing I couldn’t understand is why Civil Engineers had to take that class.
I love programming embedded sytems |(8051 microcontroller for example), applied maths (involving signal processing err like fourier transforms), Automation and control engineering (Laplace transforms etc), and electronics, especially when it involves circuit design. BUT I hate friggin mechanical engineering. Thermodynamis and whatnot. Why the hell am I supposed to find the friggin point load of an I beam or other mechanical stuff?! I mean, at work that type of stuff will be the job of a mechanical engineer.
Ah well…ehhh, guess every engineer must know the basic stuff u know of other subjects. Altough, eh atm I’m only a qualified Industrial electronics technician/domestic Wireman. Grrr…hope I get my associates degree in a year…darn, would love a Bsc or a BEng in Electrical and electronics…
i work in areospace and engineer parts for aircraft. i don’t like to judged by what i do for a living. it does not define me.
i’m much prefer to be defined by what i do away from work, and what i do in the gym is far more relevant to who i am.
MEs > all other types of engineers
But I’m biased.
I design cranes and am training to compete in powerlifting. I find my career to match my lifestyle pretty well.
Nuclear Engineering @ U of M
so far my hardest class has been E&M Physics…there was just way too much material covered in that class…electric forces, magnetic forces, EM waves, optics and even relativity
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
MEs > all other types of engineers
But I’m biased.
I design cranes and am training to compete in powerlifting. I find my career to match my lifestyle pretty well.[/quote]
Lifting heavy shit, eh?
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I’m off to college next year and going into computer engineering at Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville. [/quote]
I was in Civil Eng at SIU Carbondale, back in the 70’s.
One of the biggest guys I have ever seen in person was an engineering student. Funny to watch him operate a slide rule. He was naturally big though. Looked kinda like Johnny Bravo.