[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
So full scale invasion of Syria! Who’s with me?? No one? Not a single person? Oh well. Bottomline, you want a good outcome for the U.S., that’s your real, unsugar-coated answer.[/quote]
Even with all of that it wouldn’t guarantee a good outcome. The middle easterners hold grudges for centuries.
We as a nation could be dissolved and reformed and they would still hate us for the rest of existence.
[/quote]
Well, in the fact that you can never really know what the outcome of anything is, you are right. However, if we get involved in Syria, and want to do it right, I don’t see any other way to get a favorable outcome other than full scale war and invasion. Besides, we have had a couple of runs at it by now, and should be much better at it next time around.
I think we just need to face facts, here. Syria is a royal mess. You have a government that is clearly evil, and you have a rebel fighting force that ain’t much better. Neither side cares nor is interested in the outcome for the people of Syria and a functioning viable, and peaceful country.
Nobody likes the fact that we are the world police, myself included. However, you can’t do anything about that now. So rather than whine and complain about it, we make lemonade with the lemons we got.
Our recent history basically tells us that we have a moral obligation to get involved militarily when their is a wholesale slaughter of people who cannot help themselves. We just do that. Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Vietnam, Korea, etc. Forget about the hundreds of black ops we have going on in places like Sudan and Ethiopia, and God knows where else.
So this is who we are and what we do… So we can just stop, or we can be the enforcer when it comes to mass atrocity.
It’s a personal dilemma for me, because I hate to see people suffer and I want to stop it for them. the Syrians cannot help themselves.
So if we look at the basic facts of Syria, you have the wholesale murder of thousands. A civil war with no end in sight, a rebellion that isn’t much better than the government they are trying to overthrow.
The outcomes of doing something vs. doing nothing is difficult to tell. Either way, the country will still choose to be an enemy of the U.S., a strategic partner for Iran, China and Russia, and a hotbed for terrorism.
This ‘shot across the bow’ idea of Obama’s has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. EVERYBODY knows, you don’t draw your weapon unless you intend to use it. It’s never a warning.
Really, I think full scale invasion of Syria is the BEST option. It’s a military option with a clear cut objective. We know what we want out of it and we can achieve it.
Honestly, if we are going to stick our noses in it, this is what I favor. Complete control over the situation.
I think obama is clearly out of his league with Syria. He doesn’t know what to do, how to do it, or what he even wants. Lobbing a couple of missiles at them is just stupid. If we go in, got all in, or stay all out.
Yeah, maybe it’s none of our business, but that ‘none of our business’ ship has sailed decades ago. I don’t think it’s worth discussing anymore really. It’s never coming back to harbor. Maybe it should, but it won’t.[/quote]
This is such a bullshit attitude it makes me want to puke. You should be ashamed of your womanly, defeatist attitude that is wholly ignorant of history, Pat.
First of all, Syria is SYRIA’S royal mess, not ours. All going there will do is turn it into OUR royal mess. And that is a mess we don’t need and can ill afford. The last 40-50 years of our history strongly suggests that nothing will be different in Syria. It will be a different mess but the mess will not go away. Our armed interventions in Vietnam, Cambodia, El Salvador, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Libya, Cuba, Nicaragua and so forth indicate as much.
We are the world police whether anyone likes it and there is nothing we can do about it now? FUCK YOU, you ignorant little slime.
It is WRONG for us to be the world police on practically any matter at all, and has been for a long time. What sort of democracy do we hope to spread? The type that uses the NSA to spy on us? The type with multiple regimes going back decades using the CIA to spy on us and the IRS to quelch its political opponents? The type that says you can’t use chemical weapons but you sure as shit can drop thousands of tons of Agent Orange all over Vietnam and send 1000lb bunker bombs into people’s living rooms? FUCK YOU. We can make any change we want to. NOWHERE in life do we simply resign ourselves to our fate and let it destroy our future and the future of our children and grandchildren. You sound like a pathetic little drug addict who is resigned to dying from drugs and just hopes he’s too fucking high to feel any pain when he overdoses.
And if you are so concerned about the U.S. stopping violence and injustice, why haven’t I heard a single fucking PEEP out of you about the situation in Sudan? You hypocritical fucking punk…This is AMERICA. NOBODY tells us we have to make fucking lemonade if we don’t want to. We can make anything we want with lemons. We can make lemon meringue pie, we can make lemon cookies, we can throw the fucking things out if we want.
You want to help stop suffering halfway around the world with the country’s tax dollars yet you are diametrically opposed to doing the exact same thing here. You’d rather take tax dollars and use it in motherfucking SYRIA instead of use them to help those suffering here, all because it’s Constitutionally acceptable to do so, as if you’re proud of yourself for being able to stay constitutionally consistent. If the Constitution says its okay to spend American tax money helping Syrians and not Americans then I’d just as soon wipe my ass with that piece of paper. Fortunately, there’s nothing in it that says we are obligated to do shit in Syria.
Full-scale military intervention with complete control? You stupid little simp. When was the last time the U.S. achieved THAT for any lasting period of time? Iraq is now the training ground for terrorists operating all over the ME, Afghanistan is a hotbed of opium-addled pedophiles wearing uniforms that WE gave them, Vietnam was a destitute country run by Communists until WELL after we had left, and even Korea still has this little “problem” on the northern end of the peninsula that we never quite took care of. I want you to complete these sentences:
We should go into Syria with a complete ground assault and take over just like we did in _________________________. Syria is the exact same situation, economically, industrially, politically and socially, so the same approach we took in ___________________________ should work just fine there.
The outcome of doing nothing vs something is difficult to tell? Uh, no it fucking isn’t. You’re right, Syria will hate us regardless. And that is EXACTLY why we should not go there. We can either spend billions, potentially trillions, in Syria, we can waste hundreds or thousands of American lives, we can further destabilize what authority in the region we have, we can further undermine our diplomatic relationship with the two countries in the world capable of making life very hard for us AND with the motivation to do so and Syria will still hate us. Or we can do nothing at all, lose nothing at all, and Syria will still hate us. I’ll take Option #2. If we need to accumulate allies in the ME that will enable us to fight terrorism THERE and not HERE, then we need countries to “like” us over there. Syria will never, as you yourself said, so what is the goal in going into Syria again? To stop suffering? Last time I checked, we weren’t too good at using killing machines to stop suffering.
The “none of our business” ship may have sailed, but it has to put in at a port at some point. Why not ours? Who says we can’t change our foreign policy? What are you afraid of if we DO change our foreign policy? What, is the rest of the world going to be pissed off at us? Do we run our foreign policy based on whether or not people will respect us? Is that what this is to you? Some sort of large-scale gang war because we need our respect?
All we are is a global version of a big, entitlement-engorged federal gov’t. The rest of the world feels ENTITLED to our help and we give it to them. If this were the federal gov’t taking your tax money and giving it to your fellow Americans suffering you would flip the fuck out about the gov’t taking your money. But when the federal gov’t does the EXACT SAME THING, but gives it to some fucking towelhead screaming “Allah Aqbar!” at the top of his lungs before charging into battle you’re just fine with it. If we’re going to spend tax money on people who need help I’d rather spend it on Americans than Syrians. Because an American represents a FAR better investment/expenditure than some fucking Sunni jihadist halfway around the world. Sure, military expenditure is a fraction of domestic entitlement spending. But it has far wider ramifications, like sucking us into more and more of these little things that you apparently are too much of a scared bitch to think we can pull ourselves out of. Thank God you aren’t running for public office anywhere.
Open your fucking eyes, Pat. This is the wrong course to take and we do NOT have to take it. This is the epitome of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result every time. It’s completely insane and you sound like you, too, have lost what little of your wits were left.
And I laugh at the obvious problem presented when you argue that our Commander-in-Chief is completely clueless on the one hand and then you turn right around and advocate a full-out, no-holds-barred war in which our clueless leader will be firmly holding the reigns. Yeah, that can only go well for us.
